Critical Miss: Ask and Ye Shall Receive...
- Thread starter The Wooster
- Start date
Ah, Sonic fans. Those that love Star Wars may forget certain films, but your nightmares are hard coded.
I laughed more at the song quote than I did at the comic. Not that the comic was bad, it was just nice to see the Sonic Adventure theme pop up. (I hate the Big levels, and haven't completed the XBLA game because of them. Completed the Dreamcast one way back when though...)
Well, I think part of the problem is competant design. This doesn't ALWAYS happen, it's just more noticable when it does.Nile McMorrow said:
I think the problem is that game designers usually tend to be one or two "steps" out of touch with the fan base. In some cases this is a good thing, in most it's not. The problem is that especially with the industry growing the game developers are the ones who themselves listen to the fan feedback, seperate "signal from noise" and decide which is which.
I hear again and again comments on how the gaming community is overwhelmingly negative in what they express. However at the same time, it seems that a lot of those same developers don't read that stuff and dismiss it out of hand. Some companies even have "negativity forums" set up so they can hopefully get people to post negative opinions there where they can be ignored.
I'll also say that there is a massive issue with people on the internet, including game developers, having no attention spans. I hear a lot of game developers cry and scream about how "pointing out problems is fine, but maybe you could present some solutions on how we could do things differantly". However then a lot of posts that do that are going to be ignored on merits of being too long. I get that all the time (with people of various stripes feeling the need to point that out).
If someone (like me) is going to point out the problems, and then go into details in trying to "sell" solutions, it doesn't much matter if people ignore what your going to say. "OMG, we can't actually be expected to read what we asked for!".
Then of course there is the issue of arrogance among game developers which is just getting worse. Them being out of touch with their fan base, and looking down on it (as crooks in many cases due to the whole piracy thing). In some cases this results in a sort of manic, mad-genius that creates epic games. More often than not it results in garbage where developers go charging "full steam ahead" to create their vision, exactly the way they want it, without bothering to consider if anyone except for them (and perhaps a corperate marketing committee) is going to think it's a great idea.
I look at "Dragon Age II" as an example of this. Bioware did a huge reveal on "Hawke" and how they were going to be giving the game a pre-made protaganist, whose race, origin story and similar things could not be changed. A basic dumbing down of character customization without any real excuse as games like "Saint's Row 2" proved you can have lengthy scripts read by multiple voice actors for differant kinds of characters.
Truthfully I can't think of many people who said "yes Bioware, that's a great idea". Even the fanboys on their own forums mostly seemed to be saying "I trust Bioware" more than commenting on this themselves.
What happened? Bioware decided to listen to the few people who liked it, deciding they were the "signal" so to speak, and charged full steam ahead. Of course then again they really seemed more interested in doing this for promotional reasons, and like they were going to do whatever the frak they wanted to anyway (which is the problem). Generally speaking the company should have listened to the negative comments, delayed the game a bit longer, and adjusted things according to what people were saying they wanted.
Oh sure, it might be a great game, but it's a game that will ever be good as what it could have been if they listened to the information they solicited.
In comparison, a good 3D Sonic game is possible. If you listen to Sonic fans there have been plenty of very similar visions of what such a game would be like. However instead of making that/those games that people wanted, "Team Sonic" decided to keep swinging around their offices, throwing poo at each other, and eventually cramming some into a CD drive to make the 3D Sonic games that were actually produced (I'm sorry to be that critical and insulting, but honestly I think Yahtzee called this one more or less right, that is the impression I get). For example, I don't think I ever heard a fan say "you know what would make Sonic cooler? If we had an Emo character with guns instead!", or certainly not in any numbers that should have mattered. I still don't know where the whole "Werehog" thing came from, who thought of that, or who greenlit it. Truthfully it sounds like something that would have been conceived on a furry porno forum where someone was writing fan fiction combining a favorite video game character with a love of lycanthropic sex from their paranormal romance novels.... the quality of the concept seems like it was that far "down the well", and probably involved drugs too.
At any rate, all rambling and picking on Team Sonic aside, great comic.
But if genetically modified blue hedge hogs can SAVE the world, they could RULE it too... We'd be screwedSaturdayS said:
I mean to do this purely as a favor to you: I hope you will accept it that way.Therumancer said:Well, I think part of the problem is competant design. This doesn't ALWAYS happen, it's just more noticable when it does.Nile McMorrow said:
I think the problem is that game designers usually tend to be one or two "steps" out of touch with the fan base. In some cases this is a good thing, in most it's not. The problem is that especially with the industry growing the game developers are the ones who themselves listen to the fan feedback, seperate "signal from noise" and decide which is which.
I hear again and again comments on how the gaming community is overwhelmingly negative in what they express. However at the same time, it seems that a lot of those same developers don't read that stuff and dismiss it out of hand. Some companies even have "negativity forums" set up so they can hopefully get people to post negative opinions there where they can be ignored.
I'll also say that there is a massive issue with people on the internet, including game developers, having no attention spans. I hear a lot of game developers cry and scream about how "pointing out problems is fine, but maybe you could present some solutions on how we could do things differantly". However then a lot of posts that do that are going to be ignored on merits of being too long. I get that all the time (with people of various stripes feeling the need to point that out).
If someone (like me) is going to point out the problems, and then go into details in trying to "sell" solutions, it doesn't much matter if people ignore what your going to say. "OMG, we can't actually be expected to read what we asked for!".
Then of course there is the issue of arrogance among game developers which is just getting worse. Them being out of touch with their fan base, and looking down on it (as crooks in many cases due to the whole piracy thing). In some cases this results in a sort of manic, mad-genius that creates epic games. More often than not it results in garbage where developers go charging "full steam ahead" to create their vision, exactly the way they want it, without bothering to consider if anyone except for them (and perhaps a corperate marketing committee) is going to think it's a great idea.
I look at "Dragon Age II" as an example of this. Bioware did a huge reveal on "Hawke" and how they were going to be giving the game a pre-made protaganist, whose race, origin story and similar things could not be changed. A basic dumbing down of character customization without any real excuse as games like "Saint's Row 2" proved you can have lengthy scripts read by multiple voice actors for differant kinds of characters.
Truthfully I can't think of many people who said "yes Bioware, that's a great idea". Even the fanboys on their own forums mostly seemed to be saying "I trust Bioware" more than commenting on this themselves.
What happened? Bioware decided to listen to the few people who liked it, deciding they were the "signal" so to speak, and charged full steam ahead. Of course then again they really seemed more interested in doing this for promotional reasons, and like they were going to do whatever the frak they wanted to anyway (which is the problem). Generally speaking the company should have listened to the negative comments, delayed the game a bit longer, and adjusted things according to what people were saying they wanted.
Oh sure, it might be a great game, but it's a game that will ever be good as what it could have been if they listened to the information they solicited.
In comparison, a good 3D Sonic game is possible. If you listen to Sonic fans there have been plenty of very similar visions of what such a game would be like. However instead of making that/those games that people wanted, "Team Sonic" decided to keep swinging around their offices, throwing poo at each other, and eventually cramming some into a CD drive to make the 3D Sonic games that were actually produced (I'm sorry to be that critical and insulting, but honestly I think Yahtzee called this one more or less right, that is the impression I get). For example, I don't think I ever heard a fan say "you know what would make Sonic cooler? If we had an Emo character with guns instead!", or certainly not in any numbers that should have mattered. I still don't know where the whole "Werehog" thing came from, who thought of that, or who greenlit it. Truthfully it sounds like something that would have been conceived on a furry porno forum where someone was writing fan fiction combining a favorite video game character with a love of lycanthropic sex from their paranormal romance novels.... the quality of the concept seems like it was that far "down the well", and probably involved drugs too.
At any rate, all rambling and picking on Team Sonic aside, great comic.
This could have been your post:
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The problem is in part competent design or lack thereof.
Sometimes game designers are out of touch with their fan base and have trouble of effectively separating signal from noise.
The gaming community is said to be very negative and some companies have negativity forums so they can more easily ignore it: this is a problem.
Designers say that they don't just want you to point out the problems, but also offer solutions. This results in longer posts (like mine) which are then frequently ignored.
Why are there arrogant designers who look down on their fans like this?
Dragon age 2 is a good example: it uses a pre-made protagonist instead of wider customization, even tough Saint's row 2 showed with their multiple lengthy script read by multiple voice actors that you don't need to do it that way.
The game turned out alright, but dragon age would have been much better had they listened better to the information they had asked for and even received.
Likewise sonic 3D could easily have been a great game, but the development team completely fucked it up.
So yeah, great comic and a Sonic 3D game would have worked with competent game design.
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If you manage to make your writing shorter, you'll be read more and it'll be better for the games you comment on.
goth Erin.... 'oly shit
also, I really don't wish sonic team would get eaten by wolves, I just want 'em to know what the fuck they have to do when it comes to games =P
also, I really don't wish sonic team would get eaten by wolves, I just want 'em to know what the fuck they have to do when it comes to games =P
