Comments About Indie Games Taken Out of Context, Says Braid Creator [UPDATED]

Logan Westbrook

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Feb 21, 2008
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Comments About Indie Games Taken Out of Context, Says Braid Creator [UPDATED]



Jonathan Blow says that PSN and XBLA both have their merits for indie games, even if some people want to make it seem like he thinks otherwise.

(The headline and the introduction for this article have been changed to reflect new information, but the original content is preserved below.)

Blow, the auteur developer behind 2008 hit time-manipulation platformer, Braid, claims that Sony has a much more experimental attitude towards indie games, and is much less risk averse than Microsoft.

He said that while the bar for getting games on to Live Arcade was lower, most of them weren't very good. Sony was more deliberate about what games it allowed on PSN, but Blow thought that it was much more willing to release experimental or artful games like Linger in Shadows - a "demoscene" project that is more like an piece of interactive artwork than it is a traditional game.

Blow thought that although there were the occasional flashes of brilliance on Live Arcade, such as the recent Super Meat Boy, the service was ultimately a bureaucratic machine, which in turn was part of another, larger bureaucratic machine, so was not well designed to promote anything experimental. He said that while indie games were fewer in number on PSN, they had more impact on gaming as a whole.

While Blow may have a point that PSN has more high-profile "artistic" titles on PSN than Microsoft does on Xbox Live, you can't ignore the fact that Microsoft has a dedicated channel for the smaller indie developers. You might make the case that the XBLIG is exactly what Blow meant when he referred to the low bar to entry and low overall quality, but the games those developers produce are just as worthy of consideration as something like Blow's own Braid.


UPDATE: In a post on the development blog [http://the-witness.net/news/?p=701#comments] for his upcoming game, The Witness, Blow said that his comments about PSN and XBLA had been taken out of context. He said that in the full interview with Edge [http://www.next-gen.biz/], how Microsoft and Sony handle their respective indie game catalogues was only a small part portion of what he and Chris Hecker talked about.

The whole interview was much broader in scope than the snippet presented above, and included points about the various types of indie game, such as the aforementioned work produced by the XBLIG community, and how long indie games will be able to find that kind of audience that Braid did.

Blow said that to pull quotes like that from the interview and present them out of context was not only sensationalist and less than worthless, it actually damaged the relationship that Blow and his team had with Microsoft and Sony.

Source: CVG [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=281445?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-News-RSS]


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Grey_Focks

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Jan 12, 2010
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seeing as how he really doesn't go into the details as to how XBL's system is more bureaucratic than Sony's, he really isn't making much of a strong argument. Like you said, Logan, just because a game may not be as well done as something like Braid, doesn't mean it's any less art.
 

HentMas

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Apr 17, 2009
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its the same guy that wrote an unfinished story, pasted a time mechanics game over it and called it a day, i´m not too fond of that guy, and i wouldn´t take his word to be true, but i do know the "publishing rights" and "contracts" that come with an XBLA launch are actually really binding and unforgiving.
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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Yeah he is really isn't saying anything detailed, and because of that I just have to take it as him taking a few licks of Sony's willy before popping the whole thing in his mouth at a later time when Braid 2 is PS3 only. Of course, I don't see why I should care what he has to say anyway because he made one video game and it completely sucked. (Hint for your next game: making poorly designed puzzles and just throwing in a rewind time button so people can just retry as many time as needed rather than you actually tightening up the puzzles to make them good? That's pretty shitty dude.)

RenegadePacifist said:
"I created an overpraised game, once." says Blow, while furiously masturbating to pictures of his own creation, Braid, that are littered over his bedroom ceiling, in his wallet; around his toilet and even on custom plates of fine china that cost him much of his income from the game's sales.

"So, naturally, I'm in the perfect position to say a few lines that look quite intellectual, but I need go no further than this because, as you see, I am an artiste.". Blow then concluded the interview by blowing his load over his own tongue, and claiming it yet a magnificent drop of paint on the canvas that is his life.
Yeah, that's about it basically.
 

Leviathan902

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Dec 18, 2008
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Way to bite the hand that feeds there Mr. Blow.

While pulling stuff out of your ass, no less.

XBLA has Limbo, P.B. Winterbottom, Braid, Castle Crashers, and dozens more high quality independent games. Not to mention the entire friggin' Indie Channel. The PSN has some great exclusives as well, but I haven't seen anything really light the world on fire there, certainly any more so than XBLA. What the hell is he talking about?

If the argument is about "ART" games, then to be honest, you probably shouldn't be looking to EITHER console. The fact that the PS3 has 2 or 3 that are decent doesn't really qualify it as a mecca of the "genre". If you want to play art games, stick to your PC.
 

megs1120

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Jul 27, 2009
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RenegadePacifist said:
"I created an overpraised game, once." says Blow, while furiously masturbating to pictures of his own creation, Braid, that are littered over his bedroom ceiling, in his wallet; around his toilet and even on custom plates of fine china that cost him much of his income from the game's sales.

"So, naturally, I'm in the perfect position to say a few lines that look quite intellectual, but I need go no further than this because, as you see, I am an artiste.". Blow then concluded the interview by blowing his load over his own tongue, and claiming it yet a magnificent drop of paint on the canvas that is his life.
Hahahaha hooooly shit!
 

burgbrand22

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Jul 10, 2009
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Ya all missing the point. His criticism towards Xbox Live is specifically over "experimental" and "artful" games, not indies in general (cause Live has gots plenty.)

I am also surprised to see people lay the smackdown on Braid, which I thought was a good game.
 

SaintWaldo

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Jun 10, 2008
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Logan Westbrook said:
You might make the case that the XBLIG is exactly what Blow meant when he referred to the low bar to entry and low overall quality, but the games those developers produce are just as worthy as consideration as something like Blow's own Braid.
Yeah, only if you refuse to understand the English language or actively work to eliminate nuance. Even you should admit that "worthy of consideration" is not the same as "worthy", which is why we care about what Blow says in the first place.

He's talking about MS not being able to do anything but clear a path for both, and Sony (in his opinion) being able to tell the difference.

To help everyone, here's what he ACTUALLY said:

Johnathan Blow said:
"Microsoft has provided the lower barrier to entry with Xbox Live Indie Games, but most of them are not very good - I don't think that's a controversial statement," said Blow.

"So if you're thinking about the impact of indie games on the whole forum of games then probably Sony has done more because of the way they curate the games they put on there - they're actually looking for games that are artful or experimental.

"I mean, they published Linger In Shadows; Microsoft would never have done that - that's not even really a game. XBLA is more conservative than PSN but it still has a larger audience so it's much more commercially feasible, as long as you can get your game noticed - which is getting harder over time, but is still possible."
via CVG [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=281445?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-News-RSS], again.

Note how he doesn't BASH MS, he actually points out XBLA's STRENGTHS. He also just happens to explain how the two are different. I love the, "I don't think that's a controversial statement," part most especially.

So everyone who thinks he's bashing MS, go to the fanboy corner. Everyone who thinks he's giving Sony a big feather, same corner, different color.
 

The Random One

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May 29, 2008
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Every time Blow opens his mouth he sounds a little more like an indie David Cage. Which is still a lot better than an AAA David Cage, which I guess would be regular David Cage, but come on.
 

Jumplion

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Mar 10, 2008
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SaintWaldo said:
Logan Westbrook said:
You might make the case that the XBLIG is exactly what Blow meant when he referred to the low bar to entry and low overall quality, but the games those developers produce are just as worthy as consideration as something like Blow's own Braid.
Yeah, only if you refuse to understand the English language or actively work to eliminate nuance. Even you should admit that "worthy of consideration" is not the same as "worthy", which is why we care about what Blow says in the first place.

He's talking about MS not being able to do anything but clear a path for both, and Sony (in his opinion) being able to tell the difference.

To help everyone, here's what he ACTUALLY said:

Johnathan Blow said:
"Microsoft has provided the lower barrier to entry with Xbox Live Indie Games, but most of them are not very good - I don't think that's a controversial statement," said Blow.

"So if you're thinking about the impact of indie games on the whole forum of games then probably Sony has done more because of the way they curate the games they put on there - they're actually looking for games that are artful or experimental.

"I mean, they published Linger In Shadows; Microsoft would never have done that - that's not even really a game. XBLA is more conservative than PSN but it still has a larger audience so it's much more commercially feasible, as long as you can get your game noticed - which is getting harder over time, but is still possible."
via CVG [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=281445?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-News-RSS], again.

Note how he doesn't BASH MS, he actually points out XBLA's STRENGTHS. He also just happens to explain how the two are different. I love the, "I don't think that's a controversial statement," part most especially.

So everyone who thinks he's bashing MS, go to the fanboy corner. Everyone who thinks he's giving Sony a big feather, same corner, different color.
Again, Journalism at it's finest, folks. Always read the sources.

OT: I can see his overall point, Sony does tend to publish more "artsy" and experimental kind of games, namely flOwer and Linger in Shadows. Both XBLA and PSN have their fair share of indie games, and it's great that XBLA allows for pretty much anyone to get their games out there, but that's as much of a weakness as it is a strength as a ton of shit gets pumped out and it overshadows the good ones.
 

pulse2

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May 10, 2008
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Leviathan902 said:
Way to bite the hand that feeds there Mr. Blow.

While pulling stuff out of your ass, no less.

XBLA has Limbo, P.B. Winterbottom, Braid, Castle Crashers, and dozens more high quality independent games. Not to mention the entire friggin' Indie Channel. The PSN has some great exclusives as well, but I haven't seen anything really light the world on fire there, certainly any more so than XBLA. What the hell is he talking about?

If the argument is about "ART" games, then to be honest, you probably shouldn't be looking to EITHER console. The fact that the PS3 has 2 or 3 that are decent doesn't really qualify it as a mecca of the "genre". If you want to play art games, stick to your PC.
Really? Need I mention Burn Zombie Burn, Pixel Junk Monsters, Pixel Junk Racer, Pixel Junk Shooter, Flow, Flower, Dead Nation and the list goes on -_-

While his point is exaggerated to a certain extent, I can more than understand where he's coming from, this wouldn't be the first developer I've heard moan about XBL and indie development on XBL. Not only are MMO creators moaning about Microsoft's beauracracy, indie developers are too.

Channel or no channel, the fact of the matter is trying to seperate yourself from the rest, theres no point having 1000 games if only 10 of those games are really mention worthy, I'd rather have 30 games of which 28 are astounding.

XBL has had some pretty shitty titles pop up on it, for ever good one theres at least 10 crappy ones.

Oh,a nd for the record, I found Flower alone to be far more beautiful, calming, innovative and story driven without actually having to put a single word on the screen than many indie games to come out today. If this is the epitome of art in games, than Sony has the right mindset.
 

soapyshooter

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Jan 19, 2010
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Idk seems like PSN does have a broader indie selection with great games coming out of small studios like Joe Danger, Flower etc. Even big guys like Valve said XBL rules are a ***** to navigate even with things like patches and dlc, its probably worse with an entire game.
 

Galaxy613

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Apr 6, 2008
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No, don't change the title! You'll get more hits this way because of the Fanboy rage, that's the whole point of taking his quotes out of context like that. If you fix it so it has a balanced and more truthful reporting, it won't get as many hits!

SOMEBODY hasn't been to Journalism 101! xD

I LOVE it when journalism sites misrepresent the topics they are supposed be covering, not only are they doing the topic a disservice. But when it's indie developers they are covering, it can cost them dearly when they don't have huge publishing houses under their control and PR departments to repair damage.

NO, go ahead and keep the title, I'm sure keeping it up won't do EVEN MORE DAMAGE! -.-
 

pulse2

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cursedseishi said:
Yep, because the 50 different "massage" games, or those random Japanese-only gibberish games on there are among the same level and as worthy of consideration as Braid, Breath of Death, Castle Crashers, and The Maw. If the game wants to be worthy of consideration against the top games, then it actually needs to be good (or at the very least be in the same language as the market its being released into).

Microsoft doesn't seem to bother with quality control, which again, leads to those "massage" games being released, and the Japanese-only visual novel-styled 'games' being allowed to pass any, if at all, checks for US Marketplace.

My opinion, simply put, is Microsoft doesn't give a rats ass about what they release in the "indie" area, as long as they get money from it. Now, I can't comment on WHY this seemingly doesn't apply to Sony, but I'm glad it doesn't.
I think Sony simply wants to encourage indie developers to make some interesting things, after all, if they do make some kick ass games for PSN, more reason to hire them or buy out thier company. More first party power to Sony, win / win. Makes sense doesn't it. Its a similar situation with Media Molocule, it was indie development that got LBP noticed, now Sony has it pitched at the top of its first party games right next to naughty dog, sucker punch, insomniac and guerilla etc.

Microsoft really needs to put more effort into watching and helping indies, after all, indies will define the future of gaming, just take a look at what indie hackers have done with Kinect for example. Far more interesting than the crappy games that came out with it.
 

BabyRaptor

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RenegadePacifist said:
"I created an overpraised game, once." says Blow, while furiously masturbating to pictures of his own creation, Braid, that are littered over his bedroom ceiling, in his wallet; around his toilet and even on custom plates of fine china that cost him much of his income from the game's sales.

"So, naturally, I'm in the perfect position to say a few lines that look quite intellectual, but I need go no further than this because, as you see, I am an artiste.". Blow then concluded the interview by blowing his load over his own tongue, and claiming it yet a magnificent drop of paint on the canvas that is his life.
This says what I was going to say in a way much more awesome than I ever could.