7 year old girl shot dead while selling some lemonade

[Harley Duke]

I've noticed this thread has turned into a gun control debate over the course of some four pages of posts. Uncanny.

I cannot claim to be an expert in legislation or firearms, let alone firearms legislation. I can, however, point out that an awful lot of people have been suggesting stricter firearms laws as a way of remedying situations like this.

I like your spunk, fellas, but as a deterrent, laws mean very, very little. A few here have pointed out (correctly, I feel) that making firearms harder to legally obtain will not stop gun crime, because criminals will just go about obtaining their firearms illegally. If I'm the sort of person who seriously believes that whatever my problems are, they can be solved by shooting someone in the face, I'm probably also the sort of person who will not be taking any sort of law into consideration at any point in time.

Laws are NOT deterrents. Making something is illegal will only open the door to more strict punishments for offenders. Chances are slim that punishments are going to act as deterrents either, because there isn't a criminal in any prison cell out there who figured they were going to get caught. The United States is one of very few countries that exercises capital punishment, if not the only country that exercises it. Think about it: if people can, and ARE, executed for committing crimes, then why are crimes still committed? Because laws, penalties, and legal action in general cannot prevent crimes.

 

[Biodeamon]

As Cave Jhonson said:
"I don't want your damn lemons! the hell am i supposed to do with these!?"

That is so many levels of apathy for a human life, it's not even funny. A little girl died and you're just cracking jokes about it.

I may be a fan of edgy comedy but that was just wrong.

Anyways, my prayers will go out to the girl and her family.

It isn't apathy. It's sadism. And there's no god btw.

cheers mate

 

[Biodeamon]

As Cave Jhonson said:
"I don't want your damn lemons! the hell am i supposed to do with these!?"

That's terrible. How could you write something like that, on a thread like this?

Because sadism, that's how.

 

[Petromir]

To all those saying that Gun control would have stopped this.

In the UK ovr the last couple of years there ahve been multiple cases of innocent people being killed in the crossfire of gun fights with illegal weapon.

It should be mentioed that contry to popular internet beleif firearm licenses are reasonably easy to get hold of for hunting rifles, target rifles and shotguns. Shotgun licenses have NO lower age limit, and children have been granted them in recent years.

If you can prove you have good reason for one (hunting, pest control, target shooting and pre-20th century hiostorical re-enactment are the main ones), the weapon is suited to the task, and can prove that you have a suitible place to store it (a gunsafe in otherwords)and no medical, mental or criminal bars you will likely be granted one.

It is still easier to get an illegal one if you are a gang member or know some. I know shops that display shotguns in the window.

I will also add that a number of shootings in this contry the killer has had legal firearms but used an illegal one in the incident.

 

[Lunar Templar]

This is what you get when you want the right to own a handgun so you can feel like your family is safe. Deadly weapons do not make for good pacifiers.

lol, what?

riiight ..... cause the gang bangers in this country buy they're weapons though only legal channels, and not the countless underground illegal ones, which, I'll kindly remind you has military hardware as well

but you keep right on acting like gun control laws stop this kind thing, cause no one dies from guns in country where the populous isn't allowed to own a gun

 

[Cecilthedarkknight_234]

....I'm actually speechless for once.. what the hell is wrong with this country. I also love the fact it took a week later for anybody to give this national attention. I don't remember seeing this on yahoo or MSN news.

 

[Vegosiux]

Well, I'm locked in enough gun debates over at R&P so I'm not extending that to here, I'm only going to say two things, one of which I am surely going to hell for.

One, I love the attitude "The world sucks, but why should I care until something happens to me?" It's so amusingly weird. Not that I particularly care, mind, but my reactions to stuff like that are more like "Well that sucks" than "Deal with it." I mean, you can be impersonal without coming across as a dickhead ^^

Two, and this is the one I'm going to hell for...it's not the one with your name on it you need to worry about, it's the one addressed "To whom it may concern". Murphy and his corollaries made me do it!

 

[Verzin]

I know it's not real news but I still thought it was worth mentioning. Sure, people get shot every day but not like that.

Things just as bad, and things much worse happen every single day.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to make this seem less horrible or to say that we shouldn't feel appalled and sad, because we SHOULD, but to say that this case is more terrible or tragic just because this story got publicity isn't right.

Let's not even get in to the horrors that are a reality throughout parts of africa and the middle east, or just how bad things can get in third world countries. Or the fact that there are all sorts of little wars and revolutions going on at the moment, all with their own atrocities and horrors.

This shooting was a terrible thing, but things just as terrible and some even more so are EVERYWHERE. We just become so desensitized that we stop paying attention.

it seems we only really notice the horrible things when they make the press and well....for every story like this that gets 'relatively' high publicity, there are a dozen that don't, and another dozen that are never really reported on.

 

[Da Orky Man]

While true, it would have been harder to obtain them.

Making more laws for them to break would have made it harder? lolwut

Know what they did after a school shooting in the U.S.? Made it illegal to carry guns on school property. Know what happened? Fuck all. Know why? People who want to kill people don't give a shit how many laws they are breaking. Go ahead, try your best to make it almost impossible to get a gun. The only ones affected will be the law abiding citizens--the ones not breaking the law in the first place.

Schools:

• Illegal to carry guns
  Metal Detectors
  Security patting people down
  
  Number of fatalities from guns - a lot.
  

Gun conventions:

• Legal to carry guns
  Lots of guns
  Lots of people buying guns
  
  Number of fatalities from guns - none.

Laws don't stop people from killing each other. You can make all the laws in the world and not a single thing will change. You need to change the culture and treat poverty if you want gun related killings to slow.

As an aside: the largest school massacre in U.S. history was carried out with a homemade bomb.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb0212/hosb0212?view=Binary

Yes, yes it does make a difference. And I'm quite content to live in a place with a quarter of the homicides/capita than the USA does.
Given the general American view of firearms, in order to change the culture, you'll need to start somewhat limiting the availability of guns.

 

[Cecilthedarkknight_234]

I know it's not real news but I still thought it was worth mentioning. Sure, people get shot every day but not like that.

Things just as bad, and things much worse happen every single day.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to make this seem less horrible or to say that we shouldn't feel appalled and sad, because we SHOULD, but to say that this case is more terrible or tragic just because this story got publicity isn't right.

Let's not even get in to the horrors that are a reality throughout parts of Africa and the middle east, or just how bad things can get in third world countries. Or the fact that there are all sorts of little wars and revolutions going on at the moment, all with their own atrocities and horrors.

This shooting was a terrible thing, but things just as terrible and some even more so are EVERYWHERE. We just become so desensitized that we stop paying attention.

it seems we only really notice the horrible things when they make the press and well....for every story like this that gets 'relatively' high publicity, there are a dozen that don't, and another dozen that are never really reported on.

I'll be the one to light up a flame then, if this girl was white I wonder how much of man-hunt with county and state police officers and national press this would be getting. For crying out loud a child was shot to death for selling lemonade, I'm not really hounding on you this just pisses me off so much. Also it doesn't matter if guns where banned or not, I've seen videos where a guy was stabbed in the neck with a pair of scissors and died, if some one wants to kill some one else they will come up with ways to do it.

 

[loc978]

While true, it would have been harder to obtain them.

Making more laws for them to break would have made it harder? lolwut

Know what they did after a school shooting in the U.S.? Made it illegal to carry guns on school property. Know what happened? Fuck all. Know why? People who want to kill people don't give a shit how many laws they are breaking. Go ahead, try your best to make it almost impossible to get a gun. The only ones affected will be the law abiding citizens--the ones not breaking the law in the first place.

Schools:

• Illegal to carry guns
  Metal Detectors
  Security patting people down
  
  Number of fatalities from guns - a lot.
  

Gun conventions:

• Legal to carry guns
  Lots of guns
  Lots of people buying guns
  
  Number of fatalities from guns - none.

Laws don't stop people from killing each other. You can make all the laws in the world and not a single thing will change. You need to change the culture and treat poverty if you want gun related killings to slow.

As an aside: the largest school massacre in U.S. history was carried out with a homemade bomb.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb0212/hosb0212?view=Binary

Yes, yes it does make a difference. And I'm quite content to live in a place with a quarter of the homicides/capita than the USA does.
Given the general American view of firearms, in order to change the culture, you'll need to start somewhat limiting the availability of guns.

We'd need to change our industries first, shrink the military-industrial complex hugely... one of the reasons guns are so common here is simply because we make so many of 'em (just hearsay, but I think the number is around 40% of what is made worldwide. With a population well under 5%).
Changing our laws regarding guns won't really change their availability at this point, not at the rate of manufacture we've got here.

 

[Madgamer13]

Greets!

This is an awful story, I would say that people should stop shooting eachother as to avoid hitting innocent bystanders, but who can ever stop big boys and their big toys? Assuming that the tradegy was caused by males of course.

At least in the UK, I don't have to worry about dodging bullets when I want to get a burger. If I am to die to street crime, it will be in the face of a knife, or baseball bat, or a spaceship.

Concerning the whole american gun law thingy, all out banning of weaponry would cause lots of unrest over there and you really do not want unrest in america, especially when so many guns are already in circulation. It would be fun for the rest of the world to watch the americans gun eachother down though, of course.

Not that it doesn't happen already. Does it? Meh, I don't really care.

 

[SecondPrize]

This is what you get when you want the right to own a handgun so you can feel like your family is safe. Deadly weapons do not make for good pacifiers.

lol, what?

riiight ..... cause the gang bangers in this country buy they're weapons though only legal channels, and not the countless underground illegal ones, which, I'll kindly remind you has military hardware as well

but you keep right on acting like gun control laws stop this kind thing, cause no one dies from guns in country where the populous isn't allowed to own a gun

And so what if they do? Does that mean we should continue like we are because we can't eradicate gun violence completely? Is that really your argument?

 

[McMullen]

Aww, too soon?

Some people don't let themselves get bent out of shape over all the terrible things that happen in the world, because they know the world is a terrible place sometimes. That doesn't mean they're not aware of how awful it is for the family.

Take your self-righteousness elsewhere, it's not welcome here.

It's not self-righteousness, it's called respect for the dead, and I'd rather you take your cynicism elsewhere, it's not welcome here at all.

But by your logic sadism and disrespecting the dead is funny. If you ever lose a family member, I hope you're prepared for a chorus of laughs and mocking at the funeral, because that would be "perfectly fine since the world sucks".

You missed my point. You also assume I believe and feel things I do not. I simply think you're taking this a little too seriously. Granted, I didn't give you much to work with, but vilifying someone in order to avoid considering their point won't make you wiser or help you grow in life. It'll just be one way in which you're more childlike than mature.

The joke wasn't malicious. In a world where things go so terribly wrong, laughing at how wrong the world is is sometimes all you can do to avoid becoming depressed or bitter about it. No offense was meant to the family, and I'm sure he/she never would have said anything of the sort at the funeral. This is the internet, not the family's home. I think you get offended too easily, and there's a youtube video we usually post for people like you. I'm sure you've seen it.

 

[Lunar Templar]

This is what you get when you want the right to own a handgun so you can feel like your family is safe. Deadly weapons do not make for good pacifiers.

lol, what?

riiight ..... cause the gang bangers in this country buy they're weapons though only legal channels, and not the countless underground illegal ones, which, I'll kindly remind you has military hardware as well

but you keep right on acting like gun control laws stop this kind thing, cause no one dies from guns in country where the populous isn't allowed to own a gun

And so what if they do? Does that mean we should continue like we are because we can't eradicate gun violence completely? Is that really your argument?

you will never be rid of violence. ever. there will always be murder/theft/rape/and so on, its sadly part of how our race is

but that's not the point.

the point is passing more laws to 'regulate guns' won't fix anything, all banning weapons dose is sweep the real underlying problems under the rug.

the real way to cut gun crime, or crime in general rather, is to attack the source of the problem, which isn't the weapon it self, but the PEOPLE using them. what we really need is better education across the board, to actually do something about the poverty stricken community's where a lot of these issues come from, and get them out of poverty. enforcing the laws we now have better would help a lot to

basically, giving these people a better, and more realistic chance then they've been getting.
which is harder, and will cost more money, but the result in the long run i feel would be far more effective then trying to pass another worthless law, got enough of those as is.

 

[Xan Krieger]

First thought: BOOM Headshot!
Second thought: Yep I'm going to hell for that one.
Third thought: Ew that's tragic, always sad when an innocent gets killed.

 

[ElPatron]

Gun Control Thread Imminency Senses...

Tingling!

Another sad story from the US involving guns... when will they learn? probably never

The ironic part is that Illinois is a state with tight gun control, requiring FOID for purchase of any long arm or handgun, and even banned handguns on certain municipalities.

 

[ElPatron]

Another sad story from the US involving guns... when will they learn? probably never

This was a couple of gangsters having a shoot out, and a little girl getting hit accidentally. I can absolutely guarantee you that none of the people in that shoot out had legally bought and licensed guns, and I can also guarantee you that no gun control laws would have prevented them from illegally buying them.

While true, it would have been harder to obtain them.

How so? I am far from being the kind of person that knows the ins-and-outs of the criminal life in my zone, and I can find a a gun in less than an hour for 50? if I don't want to buy it legally (read: if I had a criminal record)

stop. manufacturing. automatic. weapons. (Unless they go directly to the Military or S.W.A.T). I've got nothing against gun collectors like you, but I am MORE than willing to sacrifice your hobby if it means less children will end up like Heaven.

Yes, because a side-by-side/over-and-under shotgun can't cause as much or even more mayhem. Semi-automatics have existed since the 1900's and somehow they haven't caused that many fatalities until recently.

At least in the UK, I don't have to worry about dodging bullets when I want to get a burger. If I am to die to street crime, it will be in the face of a knife, or baseball bat

Newsflash: carrying a knife or a bat without an excuse is also illegal in the UK, but you have just said that it's perfectly possible to die from it.

No wonder London has more crime than NYC.

Not that I'm backing up Powereaver's point. But you can't really say that when you look at the amount of gun crime in countries with strict gun laws.

The problem with that logic is that people always assume that by not having gun crime, the number of deaths will simply disappear.

 

[IamQ]

This is really strange. In Mexico, there is a lot of violence due to the wars between drug cartels. In some cities there is a lot of violence due to gangs fighting it off with each other. But this? It's just so random. The only reasoning that I can think of, is that they did it for shit's and giggles, how sick that may sound. Or maybe someone in the family had some hidden ties with the mafia, and couldn't pay them back? Who knows.

 

[ElPatron]

Really? You consider the advent of street gangs and stray bullets to be a RECENT phenomenon?

Misunderstand my post harder, please.

Also, I don't know about you, but civilization has existed for thousands of years I think half a century is "recent".

But yes, a shotgun shell CAN also hit more that the intended target.

Can? No. It will. You just need to want to use it in that way. Stand back 30m, point it at a crowd. Unload two barrels of 3" triple-aught plated buckshot. Ta-daa.

Semi automatics? That shotgun just made more casualties than a full-auto weapon.

Plus, the UK allows semi auto shotguns and centrefire rifles. I don't get what do you have against semi-automatics.

Given the general American view of firearms

Newsflash: many Americans have irrational fear of weapons.

I don't know if you have learned how "averages" are calculated, but you can't just account for the gun owners - you also have to account for the so-called "liberals" and groups like the Brady Campaign.

And let's not forget that many states like Cali or Illinois have a lot of people who hate guns.

Basically, if you point was to take a jab at a culture you don't even know you failed hard.