7 year old girl shot dead while selling some lemonade

[doomspore98]

I feel terrible for the family. But remember, this was not an intentional shooting. While the murderer deserves to go to jail for a long time, we shouldn't blame him for intentionally killing a seven year old.

captcha: partly to blame. What are you implying captcha.

I'd hardly say they don't deserve the blame or guilt. There was a shoot out, chances are they were trying to kill someone, it just happened to be the wrong person. Unless it was entirely in self defense, they deserve every bit of guilt for doing something that could so easily have resulted in unintended casualties.

Speaking of guilt, I can't believe how many people are blaming the parents. I very much doubt that most people who live in impoverished communities do so because they want to. They generally do it because that's generally the only place they can afford

I was saying the shooter shouldn't be blamed for the intentional murder of a seven year old. He should be blamed for unintentional murder. However, seeing that it was a seven year old who was killed, I doubt the sentencing will be much different.

 

[TwiZtah]

As Cave Jhonson said:
"I don't want your damn lemons! the hell am i supposed to do with these!?"

That is so many levels of apathy for a human life, it's not even funny. A little girl died and you're just cracking jokes about it.

I may be a fan of edgy comedy but that was just wrong.

Anyways, my prayers will go out to the girl and her family.

If you can't make a joke, you can't be serious about an issue, because you can't distance yourself and look at it objectively.

Serious question, why does USA have so many homicides? really, here in sweden we get like 200 cases every year.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Gun Control Thread Imminency Senses.

At risk of sounding hoity-toity, there's far deeper problems running through America's cities then simple gun control.

On the other hand, use Euro-pikeys have the right idea and use knives. Silent y'see...

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Gun Control Thread Imminency Senses.

At risk of sounding hoity-toity, there's far deeper problems running through America's cities then simple gun control.

On the other hand, use Euro-pikeys have the right idea and use knives. Silent y'see...

I was only foretelling the decline of this thread into one about gun control.

I was right

 

[Enverex]

Having just watched "The Wire" in its entirety this does not surprise me in the slightest.

 

[Zeraki]

Gang violence continues to go unchecked, meanwhile in Washington politicians argue over their favorite colors because... why not?

Captcha: John Lennon... interestingly somewhat relevant.

 

[ElPatron]

It would be a good thing since it would also reduce the amount of people stupid enough to start a shoot-out in public.

Yeah, because it's registered, licensed gun owners that cause mayhem (talking worldwide here).

Starting a shootout in public is illegal. Criminals do it. Cranking up the Full Metal Fascism in the government and reducing number of legal firearms does not prevent the proliferation of illegal firearms, or even their production.

In Finland, which although is quite the small country compared to USA and many other countries, has a lower amount of deaths by gunshots than your average state (e.g. Lousiana, ahem..). A single state, having a larger death rate than a whole country? There is something wrong about that, don't you think?

You're talking about death rates. Rates. If you wanted to make a point, you'd compare the number of actual deaths, not the rates.

It's like saying "Pripyat residents had a higher rate of cancer than the whole UK". You're not creating a lot of impact, because it's a rate of a smaller test group. If you said "Pripyat residents: more cancer cases than the whole UK" then you get the most impact.

This is only an analogy, I am clearly bullshitting the numbers.

EDIT: Also, I think you might have forgotten variables such as poverty. Nice job bringing up Finland, you now turned this a case of living standards and cultural differences instead of guns.

In Finland, civilians aren't allowed to carry guns in public.

Point being? In Chicago you're not allowed to have concealed/open carry licenses unless you're a cop (obviously) or someone important, like a politician or a district attorney.

That way all the disputes can be solved by word, or fists, whichever works. That way there won't be any "collateral damage" and if someone has actually got a gun in public, shooting it even once pretty much "blows your cover". It's easy for everyone to point out the shooter.

So that you can solve the shoot out by words, right?

You should read your own post. Basically you are saying that preventing legal gun owners from carrying their guns, you'll prevent illegal carry.

How does that even work? If you want to conceal carry a weapon in the US you need a *LICENSE* (except in the states with Constitutional Carry: Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and Wyoming).

Otherwise you are doing it illegally. Just like in any other country. How long until you realize that those criminals are not carrying their guns legally? Specially in Illinois, which forbids any kind of carry!

And I am sorry if in your country people are always arguing and punching each other every time that there is a disagreement.

Serious question, why does USA have so many homicides? really, here in sweden we get like 200 cases every year.

Higher living standards and more education. Poverty and lack of education lead people into gangs, drugs and other criminal activities.

Fairly simple explanation, highly complex problem.

 

[LetalisK]

Looks like someone didn't pay their union dues. And considering this is Chicago, I'm not at all surprised.

 

[Treblaine]

Will this convince a gun amnesty from Gangsters in the Chicago area? They've had a week.

In the UK when this sort of thing happens (usually a stabbing) there is an amnesty to hand in lethal weapons anonymously without legal consequence just to get them off the streets. Apparently in the UK people walk in with fully loaded full-auto AK47 assault rifles to turn them in.

Are there gun amnesties in cities like Chicago? How effective are they? If not, why not?

Edit: not that less guns really solves anything, I'm just looking at this aspect what It might contribute to the issue.

 

[the doom cannon]

Spoiler

What it means, is... wait for it...regulating firearms would reduce the number of them.

And how would that ever be a good thing?

It would be a good thing since it would also reduce the amount of people stupid enough to start a shoot-out in public.
In Finland, which although is quite the small country compared to USA and many other countries, has a lower amount of deaths by gunshots than your average state (e.g. Lousiana, ahem..). A single state, having a larger death rate than a whole country? There is something wrong about that, don't you think?
In Finland, civilians aren't allowed to carry guns in public. Or for that matter, anything that even resembles a gun. In my opinion, that's only a good thing. Leave the guns for warfare and shooting ranges.
That way all the disputes can be solved by word, or fists, whichever works. That way there won't be any "collateral damage" and if someone has actually got a gun in public, shooting it even once pretty much "blows your cover". It's easy for everyone to point out the shooter.

Hey you know what, you aren't allowed to carry guns in public in the US either. You need a concealed carry permit, and those are damn hard to get. Taking guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens does nothing to curb the use of illegal, unregistered weapons by criminals. Why don't people understand this? Making it harder to obtain them LEGALLY isn't going to do anything. To fix the problem, you make them harder to obtain ILlegally. You would think with all the people on this thread saying this, you would come to understand. Obviously some people will never understand.

EDIT: Also, how would you go about "just pointing out the shooter." If you're identifying him, what's to stop him from shooting you to keep you quiet? If you're in the vicinity of a gunfight, you get the fuck out of there. You don't stop and say "hmm white male, looks like hes about 6 feet tall, not overweight so probably around 190 pounds, hes got a mask on but his eyes look brown, and hes wearing 505 Levis jeans size 34-34

Will this convince a gun amnesty from Gangsters in the Chicago area? They've had a week.

In the UK when this sort of thing happens (usually a stabbing) there is an amnesty to hand in lethal weapons anonymously without legal consequence just to get them off the streets. Apparently in the UK people walk in with fully loaded full-auto AK47 assault rifles to turn them in.

Are there gun amnesties in cities like Chicago? How effective are they? If not, why not?

Edit: not that less guns really solves anything, I'm just looking at this aspect what It might contribute to the issue.

The criminals won't be turning in their weapons, and neither would citizens who cherish the right to own personal firearms. Gun amnesty doesn't do anything in a country in which guns are legal.

 

[springheeljack]

That is really fucked up and sad that a young child's life is so cruelly taken away by a stray bullet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNcS5Wl2qlo

 

[Treblaine]

Will this convince a gun amnesty from Gangsters in the Chicago area? They've had a week.

In the UK when this sort of thing happens (usually a stabbing) there is an amnesty to hand in lethal weapons anonymously without legal consequence just to get them off the streets. Apparently in the UK people walk in with fully loaded full-auto AK47 assault rifles to turn them in.

Are there gun amnesties in cities like Chicago? How effective are they? If not, why not?

Edit: not that less guns really solves anything, I'm just looking at this aspect what It might contribute to the issue.

The criminals won't be turning in their weapons, and neither would citizens who cherish the right to own personal firearms. Gun amnesty doesn't do anything in a country in which guns are legal.

Well the way gun amnesty works is playing to a gambler's paranoia that most criminals follow.

The implicit threat is that when the gun amnesty is over the police then raid all the local crims and anyone caught illegally owning a gun gets and extra bad sentence from how that poor little girl just died and how they didn't even take advantage of the gun amnesty.

Now the trick here is the police can't catch every gun, but the crims don't know where is going to get raided. So a load of them dump their guns before the dragnet comes by. So overall more guns are off the streets.

Chicago I hear has VERY strict gun laws and anyone with a criminal history isn't allowed to have any firearm on their premises.

But I don't know, when you have SO MANY guns in circulation, it can get a bit futile, like jumping into a pool WITH the towel. Better embrace the wetness and go with the flow

The important thing is that tragedies like this little girl being shot by a stray bullet need to end or at least be made less likely. If america is going to live with a high number of guns, how do you stop these people spraying bullets across streets with little kids caught in the cross fire? Inventive for gangsters to be more discriminating in their gangland shootings? Such as harsher penalties for accidentally killing a child than DELIBERATELY killing an adult gangster?

 

[Mr.PlanetEater]

The Wild West? Such a british thing to say. Yes, all 350 million of us are cowboys with six-shooters on our hips. Now, if you don't mind pardner, I'll be moseying off into the sunset now.

What do ya' mean we don't live in the Wild West pardner? Why just the other day I was out searching for Mexican gold with my trustee steed and one of them Indian guides.

 

[the doom cannon]

The important thing is that tragedies like this little girl being shot by a stray bullet need to end or at least be made less likely. If america is going to live with a high number of guns, how do you stop these people spraying bullets across streets with little kids caught in the cross fire?

THIS is the problem that needs to be addressed. I don't like the death of innocent people any more than the next guy, but I would like a fix to be implemented that actually does something useful. Taking away guns from responsible, law abiding citizens is not that fix, nor is it even in the right direction. Neither is cutting police funding. Unfortunately, those are the only fixes that people seem to want nowadays.

 

[Syzygy23]

The Wild West? Such a british thing to say. Yes, all 350 million of us are cowboys with six-shooters on our hips. Now, if you don't mind pardner, I'll be moseying off into the sunset now.

What do ya' mean we don't live in the Wild West pardner? Why just the other day I was out searching for Mexican gold with my trustee steed and one of them Indian guides.

They's is called INJUNS, boy, you get it right!

 

[senordesol]

Will this convince a gun amnesty from Gangsters in the Chicago area? They've had a week.

In the UK when this sort of thing happens (usually a stabbing) there is an amnesty to hand in lethal weapons anonymously without legal consequence just to get them off the streets. Apparently in the UK people walk in with fully loaded full-auto AK47 assault rifles to turn them in.

Are there gun amnesties in cities like Chicago? How effective are they? If not, why not?

Edit: not that less guns really solves anything, I'm just looking at this aspect what It might contribute to the issue.

The criminals won't be turning in their weapons, and neither would citizens who cherish the right to own personal firearms. Gun amnesty doesn't do anything in a country in which guns are legal.

Well the way gun amnesty works is playing to a gambler's paranoia that most criminals follow.

The implicit threat is that when the gun amnesty is over the police then raid all the local crims and anyone caught illegally owning a gun gets and extra bad sentence from how that poor little girl just died and how they didn't even take advantage of the gun amnesty.

Now the trick here is the police can't catch every gun, but the crims don't know where is going to get raided. So a load of them dump their guns before the dragnet comes by. So overall more guns are off the streets.

Chicago I hear has VERY strict gun laws and anyone with a criminal history isn't allowed to have any firearm on their premises.

But I don't know, when you have SO MANY guns in circulation, it can get a bit futile, like jumping into a pool WITH the towel. Better embrace the wetness and go with the flow

The important thing is that tragedies like this little girl being shot by a stray bullet need to end or at least be made less likely. If america is going to live with a high number of guns, how do you stop these people spraying bullets across streets with little kids caught in the cross fire? Inventive for gangsters to be more discriminating in their gangland shootings? Such as harsher penalties for accidentally killing a child than DELIBERATELY killing an adult gangster?

The police cannot just 'raid' a place in America unless they have a warrant. And they can't get a warrant unless they've got sufficient evidence to present to a judge that reasonably indicates they will find an illegal weapon (or any other incriminating evidence) on the premises.

Parolees are subject to warrantless search (I think), but if you've never been convicted of anything, you've still got your rights (and if you have, you'd be pretty freaking stupid to keep it in your house).

 

[Goofguy]

Sounds like the city has a problem when she was the 20th person under the age of 17 killed this year. So there are about 3 kids killed per month in Chicago, just atrocious.

 

[Aesir23]

*Sees Title*
[HEADING=2]WHAT.[/HEADING]
*Reads*
[HEADING=1]WHAT!?[/HEADING]

That is seriously one of the most Morbid things I have seen in a LOOOOOOONG time. I seriously hope the fucker who did it is brought down.

What also Bothers me is that they have had 250 Homicides so far this year.

Up here in Calgary we have only had like 5 (Checks) Wait no only 4! And the first did not happen till like march...

Wow, only 4? Though I guess it's not surprising. I supposedly live in Canada's murder capital and we only get 30-45 per year. Compared to some cities in the world with smaller populations and still get 100+ homicides per year our homicide count is fairly small.

 

[Treblaine]

The police cannot just 'raid' a place in America unless they have a warrant. And they can't get a warrant unless they've got sufficient evidence to present to a judge that reasonably indicates they will find an illegal weapon (or any other incriminating evidence) on the premises.

Parolees are subject to warrantless search (I think), but if you've never been convicted of anything, you've still got your rights (and if you have, you'd be pretty freaking stupid to keep it in your house).

Of course they'll get warrants first. It's not hard to get warrants after a kid just got shot, just shake down some low level hoodlum and get them to agree to an insinuation there might be a gun in the house of a convicted criminal. Test his hand for gun residue. Any tenuous link to get probable cause after such a terrible crime.

Also most gangsters don't know what amounts to probable cause, especially after one of their own gunned down a kid, so they panic and many (not all) use the gun amnesty while they can.

This would also be a good time to set up surveillance on known crims taking vehicles to remote locations, try to search them on probable cause on the way but ultimately follow them to see if they are stashing guns or ammunition. If you find a plastic bag full of guns in the woods, I'd like to see them come forward and claim them as their own property!

 

[J Tyran]

The girl should have had her own handgun, if she had this never would have happened.

/sarcasm.