Bungie Has "A Lot To Learn" From Call Of Duty 4

Andy Chalk

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Nov 12, 2002
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Bungie Has "A Lot To Learn" From Call Of Duty 4


Call of Duty 4 [http://www.halo3.com].

"There's an incredible amount of innovation even in just first-person games - that's really exciting," Isla said in an interview with GamesIndustry. "I think we were fairly innovative with Halo 3 as well with features like the Forge and the theater mode... I think it's proving to everyone who didn't realize that there's just a tremendous amount left to do in the first-person space, in the first-person action space, so many narrative ideas to explore, game mechanic ideas to explore, just things that haven't been done before."

Halo 3 and Call of Duty 4 were two of the top games of 2007, each garnering critical acclaim and multi-million unit sales, but even though Halo 3 continues the well-established and popular story of the Master Chief and the war against the Flood, Isla said the developer has a lot to learn from techniques employed by Infinity Ward [http://www.infinityward.com] in Call of Duty 4. "I think it's a great game and single-player is obviously fantastic as well, they did a hell of a job with their set pieces, of scripting certain moments that they were really sure the player was going to actually see and experience first hand," he said. "The way that they use those moments to craft the player experience I think was very successful and something, again, where I think Halo has a lot to learn from."

"While we certainly have many scenes throughout the Halo series that are scripted in-game moments, a lot of time players don't experience it, or they don't see the thing going on, or they maybe don't experience it in quite the same way that we expected them to," he continued. "It's one of the things that we can always get better at and we pay a lot of attention to games like Call of Duty 4 and BioShock [http://www.2kgames.com/bioshock/] - see how they do it because they do it very, very well."

Isla said that some of the differences in storytelling results from the "fundamentally different" ways in which games like Halo and Call of Duty are made. "Halo has always been an extremely simulation-drive game, so part of the reason why it is difficult to script sequences is because the AI never cooperates, or physics doesn't cooperate, or we worry about the player pushing a crate into the way of this Warthog that's going to mess up an interactive cut scene, or something like that," he said.

"Call of Duty 4 was an example of a game where scripting was very good and, in some ways, scripting was one of the centerpieces of that approach. One of the things I know we should try to do is to really bring those sides together. We want to have the deep simulation and we want to have also the fantastic presentation," he added.

"The story development of Call of Duty 4 was really very good," Isla said. "I think it had a very memorable end. Very good sort of half-scripted, half-interactive sequences that, again, we have a lot to learn from."

GamesIndustry's full interview with Damian Isla can be read here [http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/bungie-s-damian-isla].


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Anton P. Nym

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Stubee said:
Just no....Halo 3 and COD4 are different for a reason! Nothing from COD4 could make Halo better and vice versa.
I think he was referring to the cutscene vs. scripted-in-POV thing... instead of going to a 3rd person view for exposition sticking with the 1st person, which made the nuke scene in COD4 so much more powerful.

I certainly hope he's not talking about the NPCs... I'd take Halo's actor system over COD's busted-ass-clowncar model any day.

-- Steve
 

HobbesMkii

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Jun 7, 2008
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Stubee said:
Just no....Halo 3 and COD4 are different for a reason! Nothing from COD4 could make Halo better and vice versa.
You missed Isla's point. He's talking about creating a story with the game in the way that CoD4 and Bioshock did, where the player is forced to participate (taken from Half-Life 2, btw) and it's not made a chore. In Halo 3, you're allowed to skip all the cutscenes, because nothing happens in them that's relevant to the next stage of gameplay. Whereas in CoD4 (and all that stuff was borrowed by HL2, so really, Halo 3 has a lot to learn from HL2), you could be foolish enough to move somewhere during a story telling scene that could lead to a much quicker death.
 

SilentHunter7

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Stubee said:
Just no....Halo 3 and COD4 are different for a reason! Nothing from COD4 could make Halo better and vice versa.
-_-

No offense, but implying that Bungie cant learn ANYTHING from the success of CoD 4, and IW cant learn anything from the success of Halo 3 is just ignorant.

A replay and matching system cant make CoD 4 better?
A more powerful presentation cant make Halo 3 better?

I know that's pretty shallow; there's more to it, but I'm too lazy to fully get into each game right now.

If we dont learn from the successes of others and our own failings, then we're just EA, and noone can tell me that that is good. :)
 

Joeshie

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Yes, Bungie could learn some things from Infinity Ward in terms of single-player. However, I hope they stay away from CoD4 multiplayer. That thing is a steaming pile of shit.
 

SilentHunter7

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Joeshie said:
Yes, Bungie could learn some things from Infinity Ward in terms of single-player. However, I hope they stay away from CoD4 multiplayer. That thing is a steaming pile of shit.
I loved CoD 4's multiplayer. A lot more than Halo 3's multiplayer. I dont know what it is, but playing online in Halo 3, I tend to get pissed more than I get enjoyment.
 

kanyatta

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Joeshie said:
Yes, Bungie could learn some things from Infinity Ward in terms of single-player. However, I hope they stay away from CoD4 multiplayer. That thing is a steaming pile of shit.
At least COD4 multiplayer has different gametypes, as opposed to Halo multiplayer which, basically, it's only variety is what your gun selection is. To me, you have to have appreciated COD1 and 2's multiplayer in order to appreciate COD4's.

I'd play COD4 100 times before I ever play Halo 3 again. "Hmm, a fun, realistic fps, or a mediocre sci-fi shooter?" Seriously, everything Halo has ever done, Unreal Tournament has done 3 times better.
 

stompy

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ElArabDeMagnifico said:
I just hope "A lot to learn" doesn't mean "a lot to copy"
I give Bungie more credit than that, but that's just me.

I think it's great that Bungie is willing to learn more in order to better their technique. As someone said before, it's much better to get Bungie to learn from IW, and vice verse, lest they become like EA.
 

Bobkat1252

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Mar 18, 2008
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kanyatta said:
Joeshie said:
Yes, Bungie could learn some things from Infinity Ward in terms of single-player. However, I hope they stay away from CoD4 multiplayer. That thing is a steaming pile of shit.
At least COD4 multiplayer has different gametypes, as opposed to Halo multiplayer which, basically, it's only variety is what your gun selection is. To me, you have to have appreciated COD1 and 2's multiplayer in order to appreciate COD4's.

I'd play COD4 100 times before I ever play Halo 3 again. "Hmm, a fun, realistic fps, or a mediocre sci-fi shooter?" Seriously, everything Halo has ever done, Unreal Tournament has done 3 times better.
Gametypes? Halo's got 11 standard gametypes, a bunch of variants for each, plus the ability to alter each in anyway you want. I see alot more game variation with Halo 3 than with COD4 who's variation mostly consists of just changing the amount damage you can take before dying.

Look I can see that I'm probably not going to change your opinion on Halo 3 just as your not going to change mine, I say we should all divert this thread away from the Halo 3 vs. COD4 turn its taken and focus on the article itself because this is just going to degrade into a fanboy war fast.
 

CaptainLoser

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Two words for Halo: Sprint button...

And Halo's game types were pretty much, DM, landgrab, CTF. Then some sort of stupid variants like racing (landgrab) and zombie (DM). Not enough to make a valid argument. Then it took a whole clip of something to kill someone.

As for cod, I would have liked to see some bigger maps with larger teams. And vehicles.
 

Alex_P

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Mar 27, 2008
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Stubee said:
Just no....Halo 3 and COD4 are different for a reason! Nothing from COD4 could make Halo better and vice versa.
CoD4 single-player would be a lot better if the enemies didn't respawn endlessly. That's definitely something they could've "learned" from Halo.

CoD4 makes exceptionally good use of multiple playable protagonists, which is something worth studying.

-- Alex
 

Soulfein

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Malygris said:
"I think we were fairly innovative with Halo 3 as well with features like the Forge and the theater mode
Now, this may be taking us off topic, but wasn't the map editor in Timesplitters the same as forge only with more options? And hasn't theater mode been in every RTS for the last decade?

On the other hand, it is nice to see someone willing to admit that maybee, their competitors did something better than they did. This is beyond most developers, who will insist on perfection to the end.
 

Anton P. Nym

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CaptainLoser said:
Two words for Halo: Sprint button...

And Halo's game types were pretty much, DM, landgrab, CTF. Then some sort of stupid variants like racing (landgrab) and zombie (DM). Not enough to make a valid argument. Then it took a whole clip of something to kill someone.

As for cod, I would have liked to see some bigger maps with larger teams. And vehicles.
A sprint button would moot a lot of the vehicle play in Halo.

Halo's base gametypes are Slayer (DM), Capture the Flag, Territories (landgrab), King of the Hill (landgrab variant), Oddball, Juggernaut (Oddball variant); many of these have FFA and team variants. Then there are the player-built variants such as Grifball and Rocket Race.

And if you're taking an entire clip to kill someone in Halo, ur doin it rong. (Psst... there's a melee button.) Or perhaps you'd be happier playing the SWAT playlist. (Shieldless.)

I haven't played enough CoD4 to fairly compare the two, but certainly I can say that there's plenty of variety in the Halo series' multiplayer.

-- Steve
 

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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I'm thinking maybe one of the things Bungie can learn from COD4 is how to make a decent FPS.

HA! Sorry, had to slip in my obligatory Halo zing there.

I don't think any developer worth its salt doesn't have things to learn from other successful developers. Every new creative effort expands the palette and studios would be foolish if they weren't paying attention to what others are doing and using that information to improve their own future efforts.
 

PedroSteckecilo

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Feb 7, 2008
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I'm glad that Isla is acknowledging the achievement of another game and stating that they can learn from it. I have much more respect for Bungie now, way to not be an idiot like CliffyB or Itagaki!