Xbox Live Indie Devs Accuse College Lacrosse Fans of Down Voting

[Greg Tito]

Xbox Live Indie Devs Accuse College Lacrosse Fans of Down Voting

After noticing the ratings of their games drop significantly in the past week, Xbox Live Indie Developers are crying afoul.

The Xbox Live Indie Games marketplace is full of games developed by small teams and whether a game lives or dies can often depend on it rising to the top of the list through user ratings. If a lot of people like a game, others are more likely to drop a buck or two on it. But a week ago, Robert Boyd - maker of Facebook page for fans [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/tag/cthulhu+saves+the+world] to rate the game highly. And even though the page now says, "Please remember to not rate other games low to help CL11," it seems that many of the 177k fans did just that. The result? Games that have enjoyed high ratings for excellent work were suddenly losing ranks on the list while the two Lacrosse from Crosse Studio. Microsoft has said that it is aware of the problem, but no changes to the rating system has been made.

"There's nothing wrong with asking your fans to rate your game positively," Boyd wrote on Microsoft's App Hub forums [http://forums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/78762.aspx?PageIndex=1], "but it looks like some of their fans were overzealous and started 1-starring other high rated games in attempt to make it easier for the Lacrosse games to rise through the ranks."

Understandably, indie developers are quite miffed that the system can be so easily screwed with. "I have no idea how this sort of thing could be prevented, but I'm really upset," Boyd said. "We were really hoping that our upcoming patch would give our game the little push it needed to finally stabilize in the top 5 rated. Now, it looks like we'll be lucky just to get our old rank back."

Microsoft's XNA Creators Club knows that something might be wonky. "We are investigating a possible misuse of ratings on #XBLIG titles. We'll announce more information here as it develops," read a statement on Twitter [https://twitter.com/#!/XNACommunity/status/52852501090807808] yesterday.

Many of the developers in the App Hub forum have been talking about ways to improve the system, but the biggest problem seems to be that users don't have to play the game they are rating, or even own an Xbox. Changing that policy might go a long way to reducing this kind of manipulation.

Source: Joystiq [http://forums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/78762.aspx?PageIndex=1]

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[Azaraxzealot]

this is what happens when you leave reviews entirely up to users. i think only specially chosen reviewers should be allowed to rate games, otherwise you get into messes like this where people 0-bomb or 1-star bomb stuff that they have never tried but just don't like (same issue with Dragon Age 2)

 

[googleback]

I never hear any good reasons to release a game on xbox live through indie... seriously what's the point when you could use steam?

 

[FlashHero]

Reminds me of March Mayhem...also Cthulhu Saves the World is out now?...Time to go spend a dollar then.

 

[FogHornG36]

I... this hurts my head... are you actually saying there are people that not only like the game of lacrosse... but they also play an xbox game of lacrosse... AND they feel so loyal to it that they go around voteing other games down just to try and raise their xbox game's rateing?

I thought lacrosse was just something you got forced to play in gym class...

 

[Danpascooch]

this is what happens when you leave reviews entirely up to users. i think only specially chosen reviewers should be allowed to rate games, otherwise you get into messes like this where people 0-bomb or 1-star bomb stuff that they have never tried but just don't like (same issue with Dragon Age 2)

Gee I never played Dragon Age II? Huh, I wonder where those 35 hours went........Well, thanks for letting me know I couldn't have possibly not liked it had I played it Mr.Expert.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

Reminds me of March Mayhem...also Cthulhu Saves the World is out now?...Time to go spend a dollar then.

hit the nail on the head you did. people mindlessly voting for and against things they know nothing about to further their goals with no thought of the consequences

seriously, like i said, voters should be specially-chosen people

this is what happens when you leave reviews entirely up to users. i think only specially chosen reviewers should be allowed to rate games, otherwise you get into messes like this where people 0-bomb or 1-star bomb stuff that they have never tried but just don't like (same issue with Dragon Age 2)

Gee I never played Dragon Age II? Huh, I wonder where those 35 hours went........Well, thanks for letting me know I couldn't have possibly not liked it had I played it Mr.Expert.

i said people in general, not you specifically. besides, why spend 35 hours playing something you hate?

 

[OldGus]

this is what happens when you leave reviews entirely up to users. i think only specially chosen reviewers should be allowed to rate games, otherwise you get into messes like this where people 0-bomb or 1-star bomb stuff that they have never tried but just don't like (same issue with Dragon Age 2)

Well, having users still vote could be both interesting and doable. Microsoft could have 3 seperate systems that would be more or less uncorruptable in the same way (or not as easily corrupted). One, simply put, limits votes only to people who buy the game. Think about it... you have to buy the game to play it (at least for most of them), and you usually have to play it to understand first hand how good or bad it is, so you don't get to vote good or bad until you've bought it. Meaning you would financially be supporting the indie dev, even if you were trying to bomb its popularity.
Methods 2 and 3 would be very simple and go strictly on sales and/or downloads. Probably downloads for the first one. Basically, it just says "this many people have this game," and "These are the top 5 games by number of people who have them." Number 3 there, the second sales-related one, would simply be for the past week or so. So if a game has really awesome sales suddenly, then people can see, "Hey, this is in this week's top 5, maybe I should try it."
I know I'm over-simplifying people, but I like to think simply.

I... this hurts my head... are you actually saying there are people that not only like the game of lacrosse... but they also play an xbox game of lacrosse... AND they feel so loyal to it that they go around voteing other games down just to try and raise their xbox game's rateing?

I thought lacrosse was just something you got forced to play in gym class...

I feel your brain pain. Only for me it was forced on me while I was in the Boy Scouts. Track and Field was forced on me in Gym class.

 

[uguito-93]

cant this be fixed by making it so that you can only rate games you have purchased? im sure that anyone who actually bought a lacrosse game would be willing to shell out for other games just to rate them down

 

[JuliusMagnus]

Xbox Live seems to be the ideal situation where one can require and enforce that the rater actually downloaded a game.

Sites like MetaCritic obviously can't enforce a similar thing. But Xbox Live seems to ideally suited for a system where only those who actually pay get to vote. And not turn it in some hater-fanboy battleground where nuance is extremely difficult to find.

Oh, and do away with 5 or 10 scale user rating systems. Since some people are only able to like (10/5/100% score) or a dislike (1/0/0% score) a product. Many users only seem to be thinking in black and white.

 

[PettingZOOPONY]

I never hear any good reasons to release a game on xbox live through indie... seriously what's the point when you could use steam?

a bigger estimated audience.


Same reason you would release a game for the PC, 360, and Ps3, you would have more potential buyers than just releasing it for a single system.


OT: Microsoft should remove their game from the marketplace, plain and simple.


oh well, I guess that means that all of the other fans of indie games can do the exact same to the Lacrosse game.


not that I support equal actions like that or anything...

Not for the indie scene the bigger audience is the PC.

 

[Andronicus]

I can't imagine there being that many fans of a lacrosse game that would make a noticeable impact on a game's ranking, especially one as accessible as Cthulu Saves the World.

Hehe, I love the Facebook post though:
"Please remember to not rate other games low to help CL11"
Winkwinknudgenudgesaynomoresaynomore?

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

Shouldn't they be more peeved that Lacrosse is like, behind every other sport in the U.S.?!?

While unsportsman like (ha!), such a practice is simply dishonest and detrimental to those who strive to put out a good product.

Hehe, I love the Facebook post though:
"Please remember to not rate other games low to help CL11"
Winkwinknudgenudgesaynomoresaynomore?

Pretty much.

NOBODY says "BTW, don't vote the other guys down on behalf of meeeeee!"
"Vote me up!" or "Vote 5 stars!" or something involving just the creator's game in question, sure, but once you even toss out that little "warning," you lose any shot of earnestness for such remarks. That's just how that sort of thing works.

 

[bushwhacker2k]

"There's nothing wrong with asking your fans to rate your game positively," Boyd wrote on Microsoft's App Hub forums [http://forums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/78762.aspx?PageIndex=1], "but it looks like some of their fans were overzealous and started 1-starring other high rated games in attempt to make it easier for the Lacrosse games to rise through the ranks."

"Overzealous"? I think somebody's trying to hard not to offend anyone.

Actually this just sounds silly, maybe I'm mistaken but would some Lacrosse game really suddenly cause a massive downrating of other games? It seems more likely that it was hacked or something.