8 Bethesda Games To Avoid

[Starke]

Face it: before Fallout 3 was released, Fallout 1 and 2 were known and beloved only by a small cult of fans and hardcore WRPG enthusiasts.

I think you're confusing Fallout for Planescape. Planescape was the game from Black Isle that failed to move from shelves, but was loved by critics and enthusiasts.

Fallout was fairly successful for Interplay at the time. This was back in an era when things like turn based combat weren't really that out there. Now, if you hit your teens between 2001 and 2007, I could see where you'd get confused and think this was some unknown gem that had been passed over in its day. Especially if you just looked at the sales figures out of context. But, it got a lot of press and a lot of sales in its day.

Bethesda would not have shelled out the money they did on an unproven franchise. They wanted a reliable money maker. That they were fans didn't help the situation, but if that's all it was, we'd have seen more Call of Cthuhlu games from them.

Come to think of it, why didn't Dark Corners of the Earth make this list?

Not everywhere, of course, in some territories, like Russia, they were in nearly everyone's top 10 RPG list, but in the West? No way in hell.

I had no idea IGN, Gamespot, PC Gamer, Computer Gaming World, and Gamespy were Russian. Or, did you mean, "some territories," like the US and Europe. The gaming press who encountered it in the 90s never really forgot about it, and it was in fact landing on top 10 RPGs of all time lists fairly consistently from 1997 to today.

And if F3 was never released, Fallout would forever stay in the shadows, thanks in no small part to Interplay's attempts at bringing in a broader audience with those other two games. Nowadays it's a household name and a franchise that pushes tens of millions of copies worldwide.

While it's true Fallout didn't have general popular attention, that had more to do with Interplay bungling the XBox/PS2 game so horribly that the franchise never transitioned into the main stream on their watch. You can go look that one up if you're curious and masochistic. Also, back in 2004, games were just starting to transition into their current position as semi-legitimate media franchises. So, in retrospect we should be thankful Interplay didn't sell the film rights to Uwe Boll along the way.

Now, if you want to say Brian Fargo couldn't have gotten Wasteland 2 up and going without Fallout 3's release... that's actually possible. It has revitalized the post apocalyptic genre. But saying Fallout and Fallout 2 are riding Bethesda's coattails isn't revisionist, it's just completely misunderstanding the world that existed 10 years ago.

 

[RealRT]

Face it: before Fallout 3 was released, Fallout 1 and 2 were known and beloved only by a small cult of fans and hardcore WRPG enthusiasts.

I think you're confusing Fallout for Planescape. Planescape was the game from Black Isle that failed to move from shelves, but was loved by critics and enthusiasts.

Fallout was fairly successful for Interplay at the time. This was back in an era when things like turn based combat weren't really that out there. Now, if you hit your teens between 2001 and 2007, I could see where you'd get confused and think this was some unknown gem that had been passed over in its day. Especially if you just looked at the sales figures out of context. But, it got a lot of press and a lot of sales in its day.

Bethesda would not have shelled out the money they did on an unproven franchise. They wanted a reliable money maker. That they were fans didn't help the situation, but if that's all it was, we'd have seen more Call of Cthuhlu games from them.

Come to think of it, why didn't Dark Corners of the Earth make this list?

Now, I could be wrong, yes. But come on. Fallout was not a franchise that was guaranteed to succeed. Fallout name didn't save that abomination of a PS2 game.

Also, back in 2004, games were just starting to transition into their current position as semi-legitimate media franchises. So, in retrospect we should be thankful Interplay didn't sell the film rights to Uwe Boll along the way.

The mental image of an Uwe Boll Fallout film touched me and I cannot tell you where. Well, guess we can agree on one thing - Interplay are/were fucking horrible when it comes to business, what's with the classic franchises they ran to the ground.

Now, if you want to say Brian Fargo couldn't have gotten Wasteland 2 up and going without Fallout 3's release... that's actually possible. It has revitalized the post apocalyptic genre. But saying Fallout and Fallout 2 are riding Bethesda's coattails isn't revisionist, it's just completely misunderstanding the world that existed 10 years ago.

I guess I just am, since I got a strong impression that Fallout 1 and 2 were all but forgotten before 3 was released.
As for Wasteland 2, well, its case is obvious.

 

[s_h_a_d_o]

Bethesda may have created the beloved Elder Scrolls and Fallout but they can't all be as successful and great as those franchises.

Created Fallout?
Oh, puh-lease!
Rode the coattails, perhaps. :|

Let's be frank here, while Fallout 1 and 2 are unquestionably superior to 3, THEY are riding its coattails, not the other way around.

I'm sorry... what?

Regardless of your logical failing, the point I was actually making was that Bethesda were not the creators of the franchise.

My logic is perfectly sound, to quote myself

I was talking purely from recognition standpoint (hence me noting that F1 and 2 are unquestionably superior to 3). Face it: before Fallout 3 was released, Fallout 1 and 2 were known and beloved only by a small cult of fans and hardcore WRPG enthusiasts. Not everywhere, of course, in some territories, like Russia, they were in nearly everyone's top 10 RPG list, but in the West? No way in hell. And if F3 was never released, Fallout would forever stay in the shadows, thanks in no small part to Interplay's attempts at bringing in a broader audience with those other two games. Nowadays it's a household name and a franchise that pushes tens of millions of copies worldwide.

To say that 3 rode 1 and 2's coattails implies that it was popular only because 1 and 2 were and that's really not that case in any way, shape or form.

No.

... the point I was actually making was that Bethesda were not the creators...

... and therefore Fallout 3, and Bethesda, were riding the coattails of a pre-existing franchise not of their making.

Is that so difficult to understand?

 

[RealRT]

... and therefore Fallout 3, and Bethesda, were riding the coattails of a pre-existing franchise not of their making.
Is that so difficult to understand?

Disagreeing doesn't equal not understanding. It's not the creator, but the popularizer who wears the coat.

 

[Starke]

Face it: before Fallout 3 was released, Fallout 1 and 2 were known and beloved only by a small cult of fans and hardcore WRPG enthusiasts.

I think you're confusing Fallout for Planescape. Planescape was the game from Black Isle that failed to move from shelves, but was loved by critics and enthusiasts.

Fallout was fairly successful for Interplay at the time. This was back in an era when things like turn based combat weren't really that out there. Now, if you hit your teens between 2001 and 2007, I could see where you'd get confused and think this was some unknown gem that had been passed over in its day. Especially if you just looked at the sales figures out of context. But, it got a lot of press and a lot of sales in its day.

Bethesda would not have shelled out the money they did on an unproven franchise. They wanted a reliable money maker. That they were fans didn't help the situation, but if that's all it was, we'd have seen more Call of Cthuhlu games from them.

Come to think of it, why didn't Dark Corners of the Earth make this list?

Now, I could be wrong, yes. But come on. Fallout was not a franchise that was guaranteed to succeed. Fallout name didn't save that abomination of a PS2 game.

That's a little like saying Kevin Costner's name should have enough to save Waterworld's domestic take. The Xbox/PS2 game was fucking terrible, and no franchise or license could have saved it.

 

[RealRT]

That's a little like saying Kevin Costner's name should have enough to save Waterworld's domestic take. The Xbox/PS2 game was fucking terrible, and no franchise or license could have saved it.

Eh, if it was Resident Evil or Final Fantasy, it would push more copies. Note that I'm not saying those are in any way shape or form better than Fallout, just more popular at the time. Still, indeed it was fucking terrible.
Oh well. Let's move on to something more cheerful. Say, wasn't New Vegas a great game?

 

[s_h_a_d_o]

... and therefore Fallout 3, and Bethesda, were riding the coattails of a pre-existing franchise not of their making.
Is that so difficult to understand?

Disagreeing doesn't equal not understanding. It's not the creator, but the popularizer who wears the coat.

But there is a difference between disagreeing, and being disagreeable. :|

I do not argue with the fact that Besethsda's entry has popularised the conceit of the original (not really difficult, given a greater population base of potential consumers), but I would posit that it is the enduring appeal of the setting and theme upon which their (Bethesda's) game draws it's success, not the game itself.
Just as the Fallout series owes it's popularity to the post-apocalyptic vision presented in Wasteland.

 

[ElMinotoro]

That's a little like saying Kevin Costner's name should have enough to save Waterworld's domestic take. The Xbox/PS2 game was fucking terrible, and no franchise or license could have saved it.

Eh, if it was Resident Evil or Final Fantasy, it would push more copies. Note that I'm not saying those are in any way shape or form better than Fallout, just more popular at the time. Still, indeed it was fucking terrible.
Oh well. Let's move on to something more cheerful. Say, wasn't New Vegas a great game?

New Vegas, the real sequel to Fallout 2.

The popularity of Fallout was huge. I was 14 when Fallout came out and it was everywhere. For the Personal Computer market it was one of the biggest games of the year, same with Fallout 2. Fallout 3, on the other hand, had a serious case of consolitis. But making a multi-system game means you have a wider audience. No one is going to deny the impact Fallout 3 had on the landscape of gaming, but I suspect you might be a little bit young to remember the impact of the first 2 games.

 

[GundamSentinel]

you can add Skyrim to the list...

yes i am THAT edgy, i didnt like the game

*shots fired*

But really, I agree in a way. I love Skyrim, I just don't think it's any good as a game. Even more so than previous Elder Scrolls games, it had an amazing world, filled with absolutely nothing of worth. Skyrim is a great place for wandering around and discovering stuff, but pretty much everything else is shoddy.

 

[RealRT]

... and therefore Fallout 3, and Bethesda, were riding the coattails of a pre-existing franchise not of their making.
Is that so difficult to understand?

Disagreeing doesn't equal not understanding. It's not the creator, but the popularizer who wears the coat.

But there is a difference between disagreeing, and being disagreeable. :|

Okay, my fault there, I can be an asshole, sorry if I was, mate.

That's a little like saying Kevin Costner's name should have enough to save Waterworld's domestic take. The Xbox/PS2 game was fucking terrible, and no franchise or license could have saved it.

Eh, if it was Resident Evil or Final Fantasy, it would push more copies. Note that I'm not saying those are in any way shape or form better than Fallout, just more popular at the time. Still, indeed it was fucking terrible.
Oh well. Let's move on to something more cheerful. Say, wasn't New Vegas a great game?

New Vegas, the real sequel to Fallout 2.

The popularity of Fallout was huge. I was 14 when Fallout came out and it was everywhere. For the Personal Computer market it was one of the biggest games of the year, same with Fallout 2. Fallout 3, on the other hand, had a serious case of consolitis. But making a multi-system game means you have a wider audience. No one is going to deny the impact Fallout 3 had on the landscape of gaming, but I suspect you might be a little bit young to remember the impact of the first 2 games.

Eh, I don't think consolitis has anything to do with it, really. I mean, New Vegas came out for the very same consoles. More of a case of "broadening the audience". I liked 3 more than I should have after 1 and 2, but... well, there's not really much of it. It's too small. Or at least feels like it compared to New Vegas.
Might be, coupled with the fact that I did not grow up in a PC-centric environment and had to discover these games later.

 

[ElMinotoro]

Snip

What I meant was that in the 7 or so years between Fallout 2 and 3, the console market changed significantly, aligning it closer to the PC market. In the old days, pc-console ports or vice versa were incredibly rare as the markets were much more segmented. It's really only been a thing in the tail end of the ps2/xbox/gamecube era. And as the market changed shape in such a way, it becomes unfair to compare the raw numbers. You want to know how much the market has changed? There's a Sonic the Hedgehog collection available on Steam. If you told me in 1999 that the makers of half life would sell me Sonic the Hedgehog for Windows over the internet, I would have called you insane.

And man, I feel for you discovering them later. They're very much a product of their time and parts of them have aged poorly. The inventory system is a nightmare. I would love to play a remastered version of fallout 2.

 

[RealRT]

Snip

What I meant was that in the 7 or so years between Fallout 2 and 3, the console market changed significantly, aligning it closer to the PC market. In the old days, pc-console ports or vice versa were incredibly rare as the markets were much more segmented. It's really only been a thing in the tail end of the ps2/xbox/gamecube era. And as the market changed shape in such a way, it becomes unfair to compare the raw numbers. You want to know how much the market has changed? There's a Sonic the Hedgehog collection available on Steam. If you told me in 1999 that the makers of half life would sell me Sonic the Hedgehog for Windows over the internet, I would have called you insane.

And man, I feel for you discovering them later. They're very much a product of their time and parts of them have aged poorly. The inventory system is a nightmare. I would love to play a remastered version of fallout 2.

Eh, wasn't a problem for me. Sega Mega Drive was THE console of my childhood, followed by PS1, and I play older games all the time. I don't think they aged that poorly, really. Of course, the interface coulda been clearer - I mean, it took me until Necropolis to find out that you can aim in F1. But still, I really liked the games, especially 1.

 

[Jandau]

Why is Hunted: Demon's Forge on that list? Sure, it didn't rock anyone's world, but it was a decent coop game. Also, listing a sub fee as the main failing of TES:O is silly, there are sub-based MMOs that do fine (and I don't just mean WoW). Hell, FF14:ARR is pretty new, sub based and is doing fine, just to name one of the top of my head.

you can add Skyrim to the list...

yes i am THAT edgy, i didnt like the game

Oh please, I think Oblivion was a steaming pile of crap. Get on my level (of edgy)!

 

[Infernai]

you can add Skyrim to the list...

yes i am THAT edgy, i didnt like the game

Oh please, I think Oblivion was a steaming pile of crap. Get on my level (of edgy)!

Of-course Oblivion's inferior, it suffered from the Fierce Anti-beard undertones that Skyrim did not.

However, I feel that this has now become a competition which means I need to up the ante to a level that has not been seen yet.

*shifty eyes, clears throat*

MORROWIND SUCKS, DAGGERFALL WAS BETTER! MORROWIND SHOULD BE ON THIS LIST INSTEAD OF ESO!

Spoiler: *Flee's*

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

you can add Skyrim to the list...

yes i am THAT edgy, i didnt like the game

*shots fired*

But really, I agree in a way. I love Skyrim, I just don't think it's any good as a game. Even more so than previous Elder Scrolls games, it had an amazing world, filled with absolutely nothing of worth. Skyrim is a great place for wandering around and discovering stuff, but pretty much everything else is shoddy.

i feel the same way

i wish the game was more like fallout 3, fallout 3 might have a shitty combat too, but atleast the setting is very interesting, i feel skyrim is just "dark medieval fantasy"

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Why is Hunted: Demon's Forge on that list? Sure, it didn't rock anyone's world, but it was a decent coop game. Also, listing a sub fee as the main failing of TES:O is silly, there are sub-based MMOs that do fine (and I don't just mean WoW). Hell, FF14:ARR is pretty new, sub based and is doing fine, just to name one of the top of my head.

you can add Skyrim to the list...

yes i am THAT edgy, i didnt like the game

Oh please, I think Oblivion was a steaming pile of crap. Get on my level (of edgy)!

wow look out for that edge dude you might cut yourself

personally i havent played oblivion so i cant opine on that one

 

[Jandau]

Why is Hunted: Demon's Forge on that list? Sure, it didn't rock anyone's world, but it was a decent coop game. Also, listing a sub fee as the main failing of TES:O is silly, there are sub-based MMOs that do fine (and I don't just mean WoW). Hell, FF14:ARR is pretty new, sub based and is doing fine, just to name one of the top of my head.

you can add Skyrim to the list...

yes i am THAT edgy, i didnt like the game

Oh please, I think Oblivion was a steaming pile of crap. Get on my level (of edgy)!

wow look out for that edge dude you might cut yourself

personally i havent played oblivion so i cant opine on that one

Ouch, taking shots at Kill la Kill? That's just mean, that show's adorable! But I do respect the inclusion of Shadow the Hedgehog, that one was just hilarious.

EDIT: Also, if we keep this up Tim Langdell might have to sue us for the overuse of the word "edge"

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Why is Hunted: Demon's Forge on that list? Sure, it didn't rock anyone's world, but it was a decent coop game. Also, listing a sub fee as the main failing of TES:O is silly, there are sub-based MMOs that do fine (and I don't just mean WoW). Hell, FF14:ARR is pretty new, sub based and is doing fine, just to name one of the top of my head.

you can add Skyrim to the list...

yes i am THAT edgy, i didnt like the game

Oh please, I think Oblivion was a steaming pile of crap. Get on my level (of edgy)!

wow look out for that edge dude you might cut yourself

personally i havent played oblivion so i cant opine on that one

Ouch, taking shots at Kill la Kill? That's just mean, that show's adorable! But I do respect the inclusion of Shadow the Hedgehog, that one was just hilarious.

EDIT: Also, if we keep this up Tim Langdell might have to sue us for the overuse of the word "edge"

actually i just like the image, i love kill la kill and i dont consider it edgy

 

[Starke]

That's a little like saying Kevin Costner's name should have enough to save Waterworld's domestic take. The Xbox/PS2 game was fucking terrible, and no franchise or license could have saved it.

Eh, if it was Resident Evil or Final Fantasy, it would push more copies. Note that I'm not saying those are in any way shape or form better than Fallout, just more popular at the time. Still, indeed it was fucking terrible.
Oh well. Let's move on to something more cheerful. Say, wasn't New Vegas a great game?

The irony is, that for 1997, Resident Evil was in a similar state. It was making a lot of noise in it's community and starting to get traction. If Interplay hadn't screwed the pooch? Who knows? In the end RE moved upwards of 5m copies, but that was across multiple platforms and re-releases, while Fallout got ported to the Mac, and that was basically it.

Final Fantasy is a little bit of a false equivalent, because it was already an established franchise with a long running fan base before RE or Fallout came along. It would probably be more accurate to compare it to something like Might & Magic, but, that's not really relevant.