8 JRPGs Better Than Final Fantasy 7

[elvor0]

Ah, Final Fantasy VI, the game with a main villain so bland that he needed entirely rewritten when the game was localized (and Woolsey's version became canon). The game whose heroes' only real motive throughout the game is that they're the protagonists.


It's a shame, if you ask me. Final Fantasy VII has a lot of depth to the characters that most non-Japanese players will never know. And all that clone/memory loss stuff actually makes sense when translated correctly!

Well yeah, but sometimes you don't need to have a multilayered villian, sometimes they're just insane, Evil generally has at least /some/ standards, Kefka has none. It's not like they /asksed/ Woosley to rewrite him, it was jut Woosley being Woosley, which of course did turn out for the better, but even Kefkas creator has said Woosleys version is closer to what he wanted, than what he actually created.

The protagonist motiviation to be the heroes isn't really that bad a thing. Superman doesn't really have any motivation other than he feels it's the right thing to do, most superheroes don't. The cast of Chrono Trigger don't exactly have a motivation to save the world beyond the fact they know it's going to be destroyed. Cloud and Tifa are the only ones with any real connection to Sephiroth in FF7, everyone else comes along just cus, Clouds only real motivation to begin with is that he's being paid.

FF6s cast at least starts off with the pretense that they're rebelling against the Empire, which is enough reason, and having being empowered by the Espers at the point when Kefka becomes all powerful, they're the only ones who have any chance of stopping them, given the characters are heroic by nature, they go to stop Kefka for the same reason Superman does anything, because it's the right thing to do. That's why they're not just protagonists, they're the Heroes, because they /choose/ to rebel against the empire / save the world.

Secondly the clone/memory loss stuff works well in the English version, it's a classic case of delusions and repressed memories. It's just we were young at the time and that stuff was a bit whacked out and new, because it doesn't even fit into the "amnesiac hero" trope.

No the thing I and a friend missed, twice in fact, was that the Sephiroth you were chasing wasn't him, but Jenova in his form.

Oh boy a backlash to the backlash.

Look, I don't begrudge anyone enjoying or even loving FF7. But from where I'm standing the story, characters, character models and midi quality (though not the song compositions themselves) are all pretty objectively terrible.

Yes it was an important work, but most of its popularity I lay at the "wow" factor of the graphics and cool novelty of anime style outside Japan when it came out. A work being important or a benchmark doesn't mean it's necessarily good. And it certainly doesn't mean it will always appeal to modern tastes.

As for the "backlash" against it that's a natural result of more people actually playing the thing now sans-nostalgia goggles. Since it's more widely available via PSN and Steam. After years of hearing it hyped up a lot of new players are understandably underwhelmed to put it mildly. I played through it 13 years after it came out and found it to be terribly convoluted tripe with exactly 3 characters who were at all likeable. The game was so bad it put me off jRPGs entirely for a long time.

I'll echo the first dude who quoted you, it's a classic case of Seinfeld is Unfunny. Now I'm all for opinions, but the game isn't bad. A game doesn't reach this level of hype, legendary status or consistant best of lists for being bad. I'm not saying it's teh best game EVAR either, it's not even near the top of my top Final Fantasies. But it is a good and influential game. Overhyped? Sure it is, but just you didn't like it, that doesn't make it objectively terrible. If it was, it wouldn't be as popular as it is.

There's also nothing wrong with it not appealing to modern tastes(though I don't buy that, it hasn't aged that badly), but you can't begrudge a game that came out in 1997 for looking bad, having poor sound quality, or the more rabid fans for overhyping it to unatainable expectations. Should we not know by now to not believe the hype?

Even when it came out, people didn't marvel at the character models, they were awful, there was better looking stuff out there. People marveled at it because /nothing/ had even been done like that, yeah sure if you play it 13 years after it came out, or these days, its hype is so legendary, giving you the expectations so high that it can never possibly live up to them. It's just become retroactively ungood because you've played it so long after it came out to have played stuff that immitates or downright copies elements of it.

What about the people who played it for the first time when it came out? They didn't have nostalgia goggles going for them, they stayed for the new gameplay, story, characters and writing.(The Midi music is on the PC version only btw, the PSX version has proper music which is perfectly good). There is a /reason/ the game has legendary hype and it's not because it's tripe. Of course if you believe all of the hype you're going to be dissapointed.

 

[Gorrath]

I'm one of those who gets why FFVII is considered great but does not understand why people proclaim it to be "the gold standard of JRPGs" or give it some similar amount of over-the-top praise. The game was great, no question, and to me it has held up very, very well from the standpoint of fun. FFVII is neither a terrible piece of overrated junk, nor is it the Holy Messiah of JRPGS.

I think what it is, is a stand-up classic and a true original that pushed the boundaries of its genre. To me, "FFVII" is to "FFVI" what "Super Mario World" is to "Super Mario 3", or what "Ocarina of Time" is to "A Link to the Past", or what "Symphony of the Night" is to "Castlevania 4" . That is to say, a legitimately great game that, depending on preference, may or may not be better than its equally great predecessor. None of those games are perfect, but all of them are truly great, and whether one surpasses another, I think, boils down to subjective criteria.

 

[Hero of Lime]

The list needed more Golden Sun I'm afraid. Those games still excite and impress me like few RPGs can.

I would argue that the first Paper Mario games have more going for them than Mario RPG. Admittedly I played Super Mario RPG a long time after playing Paper Mario, so it felt a little underwhelming after hearing so much praise for the game. I think it's a great game with amazing music. Yet, I feel like the first two Paper Mario games captured the Mario universe better, and felt more unique overall.

 

[Ragnar47183]

Oh yay more threads of people waving around their subjective opinion as if they were facts. Whats the point of this?

Why not INSTEAD of this pointless thread that only serves to either piss off fans of FF7 or validate FF7 haters, make a thread of "Some great JRPGS you might have missed?"

Also the point you are trying to make is pretty moot when the game you are talking about has been in the spotlight years and years after its been out when most of the other games you listed have not. Popularity does not equal quality but when something REMAINS in the light for that damn long, there is a reason for it.

 

[The White Hunter]

Final Fantasy XII

Ahahaha, really? FF12: the shiny game with not a single likeable character, plot so boring it has no twists a la ff8, .........

TL;DR

I anticipated somebody having a go at me about 12. Not dignifying it with argument, I've had it before. Good day sir.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well, Skies of Arcadia is on the list, so I'm satisfied.

I actually think Final Fantasy VII has managed to become so over-rated it's now under-rated. The hype backlash is ridiculously powerful.

I'm inclined to agree. People seem to mostly hate it because it doesn't live up to their memories ZOMFG SO AWESOME. The game is still competent and fun, with a lot going for it. I don't think it should be remembered as THE RPG of a generation/lifetime/whatever, but I still play it. Hell, I bought it both for PSN consoles (PS3/Vita) and PC (so now I have a portable version and can play on my PC).

It is so weird that I've gone from "hater" to "fanboy" for not loving and then not hating the game enough.

And this list has reminded me I need to play Chrono Cross and Trigger.

Half those games owe their success to FFVII's success in making JRPGs mainstream.

And? That in no way makes a game good. Otherwise, Michael Bay's "Transformers" should be considered the definitive version of the IP. Hootie & the Blowfish would have one of the best records of all time, and I think almost everyone can agree that should never be true.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

So much console, so little PC.

Is there any really good JRPG that a PC gamer can get (without needing to use emulation, which is pretty dicey both technically and legally)? I've always been an RPG fan, from the old D&D games to the likes of "Fallout" and "Elder Scrolls". JRPGs are something that's missing from my experience.

FF7 and 8 and 3 are on Steam. All are very good.

FFXIV if that counts is also on steam, and as somebody else mentioned there's a whole mound but not many of em I've played.

Wait, FF7 and 8 are on steam? I had no idea!

Thanks for the info. I'll check 'em out and have myself a retro-trip.

 

[The White Hunter]

So much console, so little PC.

Is there any really good JRPG that a PC gamer can get (without needing to use emulation, which is pretty dicey both technically and legally)? I've always been an RPG fan, from the old D&D games to the likes of "Fallout" and "Elder Scrolls". JRPGs are something that's missing from my experience.

FF7 and 8 and 3 are on Steam. All are very good.

FFXIV if that counts is also on steam, and as somebody else mentioned there's a whole mound but not many of em I've played.

Wait, FF7 and 8 are on steam? I had no idea!

Thanks for the info. I'll check 'em out and have myself a retro-trip.

You are welcome, I can't vouch for the port quality but enjoy!

 

[Lovely Mixture]

It's combat is better, the music is beyond superior, and even the cast is more enjoyable.
-Never mind Triple Triad, which is one of the best mini-games...EVER.

I can understand differing opinions and preferring 8 over 7, but you're gonna need to describe why the cast in FF8 is better because most of the cast's issues are summed up by "memory loss" and not much else.

I'd argue FF8 has the most forgettable cast.

 

[Broderick]

Wow. Whats with the FFVII hate?

Half those games owe their success to FFVII's success in making JRPGs mainstream. One of them is not a JRPG (Front Mission 3). There are those that I think are probably better than FFVII but I don't see a need to create a topic to bash the poor thing yet again. Also, important to note is that your list is almost completely comprised of Square games. You need to look at some titles from other companies to see what other great games lie around.

Well FF7 hate is nearly as old as the internet itself(well...hyperbole, but you know what I mean). I personally think many tote FF7 as the best, mainly because that was the first one they played. FF7 had been a sort of gateway for many people into the RPG genre, and as such, it is fondly remembered. Does it actually hold up today though? I would say so. I enjoyed it quite a lot, even with some of the gameplay clashing with the story(so..do phoenix downs only heal people knocked out, or do they literally heal death?). I loved many of the characters(red 13 is a favorite of mine) and the story, while convoluted, was engaging.

In terms of games that I think are better though...I would have to say I enjoyed The Legend of Dragoon a bit more. Still though, spent hours playing in the Gold Saucer, so I figure FF7 deserves at least some credit for being a good game, as well as a pioneer for RPG's in the western world.

 

[Ratty]

Oh boy a backlash to the backlash.

Look, I don't begrudge anyone enjoying or even loving FF7. But from where I'm standing the story, characters, character models and midi quality (though not the song compositions themselves) are all pretty objectively terrible.

Yes it was an important work, but most of its popularity I lay at the "wow" factor of the graphics and cool novelty of anime style outside Japan when it came out. A work being important or a benchmark doesn't mean it's necessarily good. And it certainly doesn't mean it will always appeal to modern tastes.

As for the "backlash" against it that's a natural result of more people actually playing the thing now sans-nostalgia goggles. Since it's more widely available via PSN and Steam. After years of hearing it hyped up a lot of new players are understandably underwhelmed to put it mildly. I played through it 13 years after it came out and found it to be terribly convoluted tripe with exactly 3 characters who were at all likeable. The game was so bad it put me off jRPGs entirely for a long time.

I'll echo the first dude who quoted you, it's a classic case of Seinfeld is Unfunny. Now I'm all for opinions, but the game isn't bad. A game doesn't reach this level of hype, legendary status or consistant best of lists for being bad. I'm not saying it's teh best game EVAR either, it's not even near the top of my top Final Fantasies. But it is a good and influential game. Overhyped? Sure it is, but just you didn't like it, that doesn't make it objectively terrible. If it was, it wouldn't be as popular as it is.

There's also nothing wrong with it not appealing to modern tastes(though I don't buy that, it hasn't aged that badly), but you can't begrudge a game that came out in 1997 for looking bad, having poor sound quality, or the more rabid fans for overhyping it to unatainable expectations. Should we not know by now to not believe the hype?

Even when it came out, people didn't marvel at the character models, they were awful, there was better looking stuff out there. People marveled at it because /nothing/ had even been done like that, yeah sure if you play it 13 years after it came out, or these days, its hype is so legendary, giving you the expectations so high that it can never possibly live up to them. It's just become retroactively ungood because you've played it so long after it came out to have played stuff that immitates or downright copies elements of it.

What about the people who played it for the first time when it came out? They didn't have nostalgia goggles going for them, they stayed for the new gameplay, story, characters and writing.(The Midi music is on the PC version only btw, the PSX version has proper music which is perfectly good). There is a /reason/ the game has legendary hype and it's not because it's tripe. Of course if you believe all of the hype you're going to be dissapointed.

Thanks for being civil. I'll just say though I still can't agree that it's always case of "Seinfeld is Unfunny" when people dislike it. Because at the time I played it I was a jRPG novice. The only games in the genre I had played beforehand were FF6 and FF9. The latter of which did come out later but purposefully eschewed almost all elements of FF7.

Like I said I just found and find the characters to be really unlikeable, the story to be needlessly convoluted and the gameplay to be incredibly mediocre. It's exactly the kind of mopey thing that appeals to teenage angst. I still think a lot of the love the game gets can be put to people who had never played an RPG before being blown away by how big the world was (the pre-rendered backgrounds are nice) and the seeming newness of the in-retrospect very derivative anime style and setting of the game to non-Japanese gamers.

I do agree that you can't blame a game for looking its age, I play and love lots of games as old or older than FF7, including a lot of PS1 games. But unlike other titles in the genre which transcend their technical limitations by virtue of telling a great story or having memorable characters or simply being fun, FF7's lack of visual punch just highlights its failing in the aforementioned areas. Which are what really count.

PS- And it is entirely possible for popular and influential things from the past to be objectively terrible. Just look at Twilight, or The Birth of a Nation. Ok the last one might be a little low, but you know what I mean.

 

[Vivi22]

While I can understand why, I don't like that Final Fantasy VII has been retrospectively considered "overrated." I grew up with the SNES era of Final Fantasy, and I still consider FF7 second only to Final Fantasy V.

I believe you mean retroactively, not retrospectively. But the reality is that FFVII skated by in a lot of ways by being the first major post-SNES RPG and coming out in a time when shitty translations and half assed writing were almost the rule for a lot of games. FFVII in particular is pretty poorly written in a lot of respects when you look at it without the nostalgia goggles. The whole story kind of falls apart after you leave Midgar, the whole Cloud having amnesia thing isn't all that interesting in the final reveal, and Sephiroth spends the entire game being a pretty lame villain. Probably in large part because you never actually encounter him until the end. Don't even get me started on how slapped together and poorly explained the whole clones of Sephiroth stuff is, or how the only times you even run into him until the crater are actually him controlling Jenova and making her shapeshift because reasons.

It doesn't even compare favourably to a solid chunk of the FF series in that regard. Add in the fact that it's gameplay was utterly boring and it doesn't leave you with much to like for the entire game. It wasn't all bad mind you: some of the characters are decent enough, the world and locations are largely pretty interesting even if the impetus for you visiting them isn't, and the soundtrack was superb. But the reality is that FFVII was decent-good, but never really that great. But most of us didn't really notice at the time because we were 12.

 

[Guilen-]

Ah. Become the king, and count down the days til people go "Yeah, but this is better, this is better." You got one thing right though - FF6 is the best RPG ever made, so...

 

[balladbird]

you put chrono cross over FF7? I agree wholeheartedly, but even I have to admit that was a ballsy move. XD Chrono Cross is one of the strongest cases of "love it or hate it" I've seen in PS1 era gaming... besides FF8, I guess, but that one has 3 people who hate it for every one who loves it.

 

[Baresark]

Dang! FF6 GETTIN' SOME LOVE!!

That said: I mostly agree with this list. FF7 was a fine enough game, but not nearly as good as it's played out to be, in my opinion. Though, if I had to disagree with any of the choices here, Chrono Cross was terrible, I thought. After all of the ChronoTrigger sequel talk, I felt the game only paid lip service to Chrono Trigger (yes, even with all the character references). Though, to be fair, I couldn't finish that game. It was awful for me. But, if you liked it that means you didn't waste your money.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I guess I don't find such a list to be that important. I mean there are dozens and dozens of JRPGs I consider to be better than FF7. Many of which came out before FF7. Everyone likes what they like, who cares.

 

[immortalfrieza]

you put chrono cross over FF7? I agree wholeheartedly, but even I have to admit that was a ballsy move. XD Chrono Cross is one of the strongest cases of "love it or hate it" I've seen in PS1 era gaming... besides FF8, I guess, but that one has 3 people who hate it for every one who loves it.

I'd say Chrono Cross is great in terms of the combat system and overall plot, but then as the article mentions

"There was a huge cast of party members, so many in fact it was impossible to get them all in a single play through."

...Which is CC's main problem and why most people dismiss it over Chrono Trigger. The game has so many characters that the writers either couldn't afford or were too lazy to even try to give them anything resembling even half decent characterization and character development, trying and failing to make up for it with sheer numbers. The only characters that are exceptions are the Lynx, the villain, and Kid, the love interest for the Main Character, who is naturally voiceless, all of whom have something to do with the main plot. The only time the other characters have any characterization or development at all is during their initial recruitment and maybe when they get their level 7 tech skill, if that. What's sad is all the characters could easily have had characterization put in, since the other party members actually comment on what is going on pretty frequently, but what actually happens is they all end up having the same exact lines for everything at most changing them a little so they fit that character's particular verbal tic.

 

[elvor0]

Ugh double post, nevermind ><