8 Reasons Why Games Workshop Hates You

[TimeLord]

The Ultramarines are considered one of the strongest and most honoured of all the Space Marine Chapters in the Imperium of Man, and were responsible for almost single-handedly holding the Imperium together after the Horus Heresy.

Apparently. You know, none of those other 8 Legions did anything at all while the Ultramarines were being trolled by the Alpha Legion playing the best game of hide and seek on the Eastern side of the Galaxy...

(Ineffective means they were no longer Legion strength; about 3000 warriors or less)

The Imperial Fists were effective damaged defending the Imperial Palace, ran off and hunted the Iron Warriors, until brought to ineffectiveness.
The Raven Guard were effectively made ineffective after Istvaan and mutation problems.
The Iron Hands were still ineffective after Istvaan.
The Salamanders were still ineffective after Istvaan.
The Blood Angels were made ineffective defending the Palace
The Dark Angels were sorting out Caliban in a Legion Civil War.
The White Scars were made ineffective defending the Palace.
The Space Wolves were missing from the Seige of Terra, but they only made 2 successor Chapters (the Wolf Brothers) so they were made ineffective.

Imperial Fists: No records of their losses in the Siege. Cannot conclude their strength
Raven Guard: "Ineffective" is a word I would not use to describe a Legion based primarily on sneaky tactics, sabotage and subterfuge where they can cripple targets much bigger than themselves with their own unique tactics. Also their mutation problems were only limited to the gene experiments, not the surviving marines.
Salamanders: While crippled, they still had their Primarch to hold them together so their "ineffectiveness" I would put into question.
Iron Hands: Agreed
Blood Angels: No records of their losses in the Siege. Cannot conclude their strength.
Dark Angels: While you are right, still no records of how long this took or their participation in the post-war effort. It is known that they arrived at Terra after the final battle but would have stuck around for a while to help out before returning to Caliban I would have thought.
White Scars: No recorded of their losses in the Siege. Cannot conclude their strength.
Space Wolves: "The Space Wolves were missing from the Seige of Terra, but they only made 2 successor Chapters (the Wolf Brothers) so they were made ineffective."
Their lack of successor chapters means nothing. Multiple first founding chapters still operate outside the Codex Astartes' guidelines for Chapter strength like the Dark Angels.
Leman Russ stood by the Imperial Fists when initially rejecting the Codex post-war so it could be possible that they hide their real numbers.

The only Legion still at Legion strength (note: over 100,000 Marines, more than the others combined at that point), the Ultramarines were the ones who actually had the numbers to keep everything together, and Guilliman, the statesman, was the only Primarch who could handle the facts of war and the politics of the newly arisen Imperium and it's High Lords of Terra.

In my view, the other 8 Legions were the ones who defeated Horus and it was the Ultramarines who kept everything together afterwards.

Their numbers post-Calth are unknown to my knowledge, but if you take into account that Horus ordered the full co-operation of Logar and Guilliman in purging the "Ork threat" then we can conclude that about 90% of their Legion was on or orbiting Calth at the time Logar's betrayal was made obvious. Even just reading 'Know No Fear' you get a feeling for how utterly pounded into the ground the Ultramarines were before they regrouped.

Also they were conspiring to create a second Imperium without even knowing if the Emperor had even fallen yet! Paragon of righteousness right there. He didn't even want to rule the Imperium Secundus, but with the death of Sanguinius he wouldn't choose anyone else. Not sure what that shows for his trust for his surviving brothers who fought for the defense of Terra and the Imperium while he was off sitting in his corner of the galaxy plotting against his father.

To quote a friend of mine [user]Scorched_Cascade[/user]

"Except, you know, Battle of the Abyss, Battle of Calth/Calth getting buttfucked while they were at muster, near pandemic Alpha Legion infiltration, being lead away on a wild goose chase by the Alpha Legion, plotting sedition, arriving after the greatest and most decisive battle in the heresy was already finished, almost causing a second civil war in the ruined Imperium because of how undiplomatic he was and being almost single handedly responsible for the levels of pants on head retarded that the modern Imperium is (Codex Astartes, High Lords of Terra, reorganisation of the Imperium)"

 

[Cerebrawl]

I'm still kind of pissed at them for not allowing the Damnatus fan movie.

I kind of grew tired of all the total remake editions as well. I also think the small-scale games like Mordheim and Inquisitor were some of the most fun to play. Mordheim especially after the local group re-balanced the entire game, extensive houserules. I also found it more fun to paint these smaller sets of models and not feel pressured to paint an entire army, especially since I'm a perfectionist and take like 3 hours for one standard model.

But all my models have been boxed up for years at this point, been thinking about selling them off. Maybe in smaller chunks.

 

[thiosk]

I'm with you on the Cai series.

In my mindspace I imagine it as a Downy Jr. / Galifinakas team.

But not like that planes trains and automobiles rehash they did.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

See this is exactly why I stopped going to the official GW site and only do Forge World. Yes its more expensive, but at the price jacking by GW...not as much anymore. And the models are better. And cooler. And the Codexes are written by NOT Matt Ward, so they have that going. And where else am I going to play my beloved Pre-Heresy Death Guard?!

Odd that there's no mention of the local GW stores. I HATE the one near me. The clerk knows his numbers and paints, I'll give him that, but he's such a greedy little man. I forgot my scatter die at home and asked if I could borrow the studio one - he said no, but offered to sell me the whole $8 die box for just the one die. I said no and he asked me to leave so other "PREPARED" gamers could use the table.
Anecdotal, yes, but my point stands that GW does not go out of there way to hire friendly people.

Also...Ultramarines...such raw seething hatred for them. Honestly I dont care they're super perfect pseudo-Romans. I don't care Matt Ward tongue kisses them every night. I don't care their named characters never die and thus the entire Galaxy stagnates in this one 50-year period. I don't care they're just so boring.
No no no, I can forgive ALL those! I hate that they're blue! And gold! They look so God damned goofy! Back to stories for a moment - I was in my GW looking around and a father brought his son in to see what the stores was about. Guessing the kid needed a hobby? He took one look at the Ultramarines on the board and started laughing. He said they looked like Power Rangers and couldn't keep a straight face. Only time my clerk's smug face fell and I'm not ashamed to admit I enjoyed that. But if that kid's reflective of the younger players, truly, in a world where they play Halo, Gears of War, COD, Starcraft, etc... big blue dudes with giant hammers are practically cartoony.

I love 40k. And I have since I was 5 years old and my dad bought me an old deck of Citadel Combat Cards. I still have it in my desk. But as of late...I won't quit. As I've said, I'd rather slowly build the army I want then quickly build an army I don't. But predict a decline in this great game of ours. GW posted record losses and I can't get the feeling that boy's reaction to the game(laughing at it) is some how related.

 

[Mangod]

I love 40k. And I have since I was 5 years old and my dad bought me an old deck of Citadel Combat Cards. I still have it in my desk. But as of late...I won't quit. As I've said, I'd rather slowly build the army I want then quickly build an army I don't. But predict a decline in this great game of ours. GW posted record losses and I can't get the feeling that boy's reaction to the game(laughing at it) is some how related.

This might get wall of text-y.

Spoiler

See, I feel there's a part of Shamus Young's article, The Game Crash of 2013? that has some relevance to this problem in general.

Quote: "I loved my Atari 2600. My favorites were the arcade adaptations: Asteroids, Space Invaders, Defender, and Missile Command. But here's the thing: The games were a shocking $40. (That's about $100 in today's dollars.) At that price, I couldn't get more than a few games a year, and that was with sustained pestering and haranguing of the adults in my life... The conventional wisdom was that Atari ruled the industry, and they killed their own market by shoveling out mountains of low-quality titles."

Now, I'm not saying that GW are Atari; far from it. However, GW seems to suffer from a similar mindset. For the longest time, GW was the only game in town; if you wanted a tabletop game, chances were you were going to pick up either Warhammer or 40k. And GWs monopoly went unchallenged, because no one was producing a comparable product.

But something happened; competition sprung up. Games like WARMACHINE/HORDES, which while certainly capable of being just as expensive as WHFB/40k in the long run, was considerably cheaper to get into, especially since both could be played both as army games, á la GWs titles, or as skirmish games. Dedicated skirmish games like Infinity and MERCS were both cheaper to get into and play, while games like Kings of War and Warpath began providing what is essentially a budget version of GWs own products.

Now, GW could have maintained its dominance, if it hadn't responded as though they were still the only game in town. Instead of lowering prices to remain competitive, the hike them up, making it harder and harder to maintain a consumer base as people call it quits when the expense of gaming reaches critical mass. Younger players, like the child in your story, also aren't getting into the hobby, because children at that age do not have the cash to even beginn playing, and their parents don't seem likely to invest in such an expensive toy; especially when there are both cheaper alternatives in the same genre of gaming, as well as PC and console games to contend with.

The fact that GW never maintained much support or advertisement for their own games besides the big 2 didn't help either; Necromunda and Mordheim get replaced by things like Infinity and MERCS; Battlefleet Gothic and Epic Armageddon got replaced by Firestorm Armada and Dystopian Wars. And this isn't just because those "gaiden games" weren't popular, but because GW could never be assed to make the investment necessary to advertise them properly or support them once they got out on store shelves.

Add to that their downright hostile attitude towards their own fans and customers. Fansites are hit with C&D orders for reporting on GWs products. They maintain no forums or open way of communicating with the dev team. Their stores are downsized to being a unwieldly one-man kiosk, size XXL, often run by someone who is too tired or dismissive to make the customer feel welcome or even valued. They actively screw Brick & Mortar stores so that people will have "no choice" but to buy their Warhammer, 40k or Lord of the Rings products at Games Workshops own stores.

Consider how all of this makes GW look in the eyes of their fans and customers. They're like EA, except more openly antagonistic. And given how much word-of-mouth matters in this hobby, getting a reputation as the "asshole company" is not going to be beneficial to GW in the long run.

GW is a dinosaur, still trapped in the mindset that they have no competition, and thus they seem to think that they can mistreat and nickle-and-dime their customers to their hearts content. They released stuff like Finecast, a material that was of such poor quality that my FLGS had to return over 50% of the finecast products they recieved because of misscasts. 50% - it boggles the mind! I don't want to come off like I hate GW, because I don't; they created some of the most wonderful memories of my childhood, but I honestly don't think they have any idea what they are doing anymore. They are living in a fantasy world of their own, where they rule the Imperium of Man and all will bow down before their Golden Throne and worship them, no matter what abuse they heap upon their subjects.

Aaand I've just written a better article than Paul Goodman. Took me less than 10 minutes.

 

[BanicRhys]

Yeah, you validate my opinions, Mr. Author, validate them hard! Feth those Grey Knights and Ultramarines.

A Tau player, (me)

staying in 6th edition

I'll bet you are.

 

[rcs619]

Let me just add that as someone trying to get into Warhammer 40k books, the Black Library seems to be run by freaking chimps. Not just the fact that physical copies of books from as recent as 2005 are *already* out of print, and *only* available in e-book format on the Black Library (seriously, there is no sane reason for a book that recent to be out of print, and only available in a non-physical format on a proprietary site), but... the Black Library itself only seems to have a portion of the books out there.

Like, I get recommended the Ciaphas Cain series. The premise sounds fun and interesting, so I go google the various books in the series. All but the most recent ones are out of print (of course) so I go onto the Black Library. It didn't even have all of the Ciaphas Cain books. This is a series you have a special header for on your freaking homepage, why don't you have all of the books right there? And all the ones they did have were e-book only. Also, neither of the two omnibuses (omnibusi?) were on the Black Library either, which I would have preferred, because of the bonus short stories. So I just went on Amazon and got the first omnibus slightly used.

Games Workshop. I appreciate that you want to publish the stories set in your world yourself, but if you're going to do that, you have to go in whole-hog. You need to have the books availible, you need to have those omnibus bundles available for people who'd like to try several books at once. I shouldn't *have* to take my business to Amazon to buy books in some of your main, flagship literary series. I wanted to give you my money, but in the end, I had to take it elsewhere. Maybe go take a page from other big publishers, like Baen books. They actually put up whole books in their main series (usually the first one or two) online for free, in full. They make it very easy to search out a book and view some sample chapters, or order it. User-friendliness is a big deal, especially with people like me who are trying to get into your setting more via novels.

 

[Rob Robson]

Yeah, you validate my opinions, Mr. Author, validate them hard! Feth those Grey Knights and Ultramarines.

A Tau player, (me)

staying in 6th edition

I'll bet you are.

Nice passive aggressive remark to imply it's my choice to be in 6th edition because one of my two armies are powerful in it. However, if you weren't so eagerly confrontational and selective in your reading comprehension, you would have noticed that we are transforming 6th with house rules and that it's a choice made in communion amongst all of us, in which we will rebalance the whole meta. Also, feel free to ignore the fact that my other army (which I play way more) is indeed one of the weakest in the edition right now. Seeing as how your extremely bile-laden four words were nothing but flame bait, that does coincide with your agenda rather well.

 

[Mangod]

Yeah, you validate my opinions, Mr. Author, validate them hard! Feth those Grey Knights and Ultramarines.

A Tau player, (me)

staying in 6th edition

I'll bet you are.

Nice passive aggressive remark to imply it's my choice to be in 6th edition because one of my two armies are powerful in it. However, if you weren't so eagerly confrontational and selective in your reading comprehension, you would have noticed that we are transforming 6th with house rules and that it's a choice made in communion amongst all of us, in which we will rebalance the whole meta. Also, feel free to ignore the fact that my other army (which I play way more) is indeed one of the weakest in the edition right now. Seeing as how your extremely bile-laden four words were nothing but flame bait, that does coincide with your agenda rather well.

Gentlemen, Romans, countrymen, let us not fight amongst each other! Not when we have a common enemy; GW, whose rampant disregard for their own consumer base has forced good men, men like Rob Robson, to seek shelter among homebrews and fanrules for fear of GW invalidating their entire army with blatant cheese mongering and power creep!

Let us stand united, therefore, not against the fanrules, the homebrews, the hobbygroup FAQs, but united, as one, against GW; the company that has forced us to fix their broken product for them in order to make it playable!

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

i like how the Nemesis Dreadknight looks

 

[BanicRhys]

Nice passive aggressive remark to imply it's my choice to be in 6th edition because one of my two armies are powerful in it. However, if you weren't so eagerly confrontational and selective in your reading comprehension, you would have noticed that we are transforming 6th with house rules and that it's a choice made in communion amongst all of us, in which we will rebalance the whole meta. Also, feel free to ignore the fact that my other army (which I play way more) is indeed one of the weakest in the edition right now. Seeing as how your extremely bile-laden four words were nothing but flame bait, that does coincide with your agenda rather well.

Woah, calm your Riptides, I think you might be projecting just a teeny, tiny, itty, bitty bit.

I wasn't passively aggressively attacking you because you chose to stay in the edition that benefits your already obscenely overpowered race the most.

I was attacking you because I was jealous that you have friends.

 

[Mangod]

i like how the Nemesis Dreadknight looks

YOU! Yes, you! Go to your room, now! Right now! Go! Just go!


Seriously, I can't see why you like it; it looks ridiculous, like someone was building a Dreadnought and decided to halfass it once the "skeleton" was in place. At least the Centurion, silly as it is, still looks like a legit piece of armor/wargear. The Dreadknight looks like it got its inspiration from Dexter's Laboratory.

Spoiler

Edit: if any of the above seems confrontational in any way, I assure you, it is all meant it jest (except for the part about not understanding what you like about the D-knight. That I meant one hundred percent).

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

i like how the Nemesis Dreadknight looks

YOU! Yes, you! Go to your room, now! Right now! Go! Just go!


Seriously, I can't see why you like it; it looks ridiculous, like someone was building a Dreadnought and decided to halfass it once the "skeleton" was in place. At least the Centurion, silly as it is, still looks like a legit piece of armor/wargear. The Dreadknight looks like it got its inspiration from Dexter's Laboratory.

Spoiler

Edit: if any of the above seems confrontational in any way, I assure you, it is all meant it jest (except for the part about not understanding what you like about the D-knight. That I meant one hundred percent).

i like it precisely because it looks like that robot in dexter's lab, i always loved that design, its very unconventional but cool at the same time


also the centurion looks more adorable than threatening the design is worse in my opinion

they look like little fat space marines, on top of that, why do they exist? they seem to fulfill the exact same role as the terminators, atleast in the lore

 

[Mangod]

i like how the Nemesis Dreadknight looks

YOU! Yes, you! Go to your room, now! Right now! Go! Just go!


Seriously, I can't see why you like it; it looks ridiculous, like someone was building a Dreadnought and decided to halfass it once the "skeleton" was in place. At least the Centurion, silly as it is, still looks like a legit piece of armor/wargear. The Dreadknight looks like it got its inspiration from Dexter's Laboratory.

Spoiler

Edit: if any of the above seems confrontational in any way, I assure you, it is all meant it jest (except for the part about not understanding what you like about the D-knight. That I meant one hundred percent).

i like it precisely because it looks like that robot in dexter's lab, i always loved that design, its very unconventional but cool at the same time


also the centurion looks more adorable than threatening the design is worse in my opinion

they look like little fat space marines, on top of that, why do they exist? they seem to fulfill the exact same role as the terminators, atleast in the lore

In both fluff and the tabletop game, as far as I've understood it anyway; yes, the centurion fulfill the same function as the Terminator (or Tactical Dreadnought Armor) does, only worse. As for looking silly, I wholeheartedly agree; but the Centurion at least looks like someone finished building it before sending it into battle. The Dreadknight, to me, looks like what would happen if an Ork Mek got hit with ADD midway through building a Gargant, and when his back was turned the Blood Ravens stole the unfinished Gargant and fenced it to the Grey Knights.

... I suspect I've been reading too much 1d4chan.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

In both fluff and the tabletop game, as far as I've understood it anyway; yes, the centurion fulfill the same function as the Terminator (or Tactical Dreadnought Armor) does, only worse. As for looking silly, I wholeheartedly agree; but the Centurion at least looks like someone finished building it before sending it into battle. The Dreadknight, to me, looks like what would happen if an Ork Mek got hit with ADD midway through building a Gargant, and when his back was turned the Blood Ravens stole the unfinished Gargant and fenced it to the Grey Knights.

... I suspect I've been reading too much 1d4chan.

but from what i understand dreadknights have a psychic shield around the user because, space magic, also the user isnt toally exposed, remember they still have their power armor, which must account for something, imperial engineering isnt known for being practical

 

[715]

In both fluff and the tabletop game, as far as I've understood it anyway; yes, the centurion fulfill the same function as the Terminator (or Tactical Dreadnought Armor) does, only worse. As for looking silly, I wholeheartedly agree; but the Centurion at least looks like someone finished building it before sending it into battle. The Dreadknight, to me, looks like what would happen if an Ork Mek got hit with ADD midway through building a Gargant, and when his back was turned the Blood Ravens stole the unfinished Gargant and fenced it to the Grey Knights.

... I suspect I've been reading too much 1d4chan.

but from what i understand dreadknights have a psychic shield around the user because, space magic, also the user isnt toally exposed, remember they still have their power armor, which must account for something, imperial engineering isnt known for being practical

It uses a Normal Knight's Ion Shield due to being smaller it can cover the whole thing.

The design of it, is really the only problem of the Dreadkngiht, its lore, the Grey Knights often fight a hordes of deamons with only a dozen solders and need something to fight Great Daemons.

Rules are really good, yes its powerful but it coast the right points, 300 points fully loaded.

Compare to the Riptide 200~ its not OP AT ALL.

Which leads to the first problem. The Writer clearly never read the Rules lately or ever.

Codex Daemonhunters WAS TERRIBLE, the Knights were overprices and near worthless. The only two options was lower the points cost but that would ruin their "super elite" army so buffing them up is the right choice.

And in 6th Grey Knights are very balance, both in the game meta and internally. Which isn't too shocking since they were design with 6th in mind.

Also what's wrong with Ultramarines? No Know Fear was amazing. And Cato's Warlord lore book is one of the best ones.
And they have the best army wide Chapter Tactics. That feels like you're just aping 1d4chan, which was very outdated and written at the height of butthurt.

This is like 1d4chan except without all the memes and colorful language, good job.

But now that they've gotten their own codex, they've become ridiculously overpowered and unbalanced in both the tabletop game and their lore.

Come on, Castellan Crowe wasn't that bad. He was the only good bit of lore in that book, but he was still pretty good.

Draigo's two books are pretty good. He makes a good buddy cop team with Azrael.
And a massive troll.

What, no personal shout-out to Matt Ward? The troll who singly handed gave us the Grey Knights and Ultrasmurfs, and nerfed in to dust every other race that posed a threat to them?

Ward doesn't Nerf, the only times he does it to balance things (see High Elves) Really dude hasn't done anything to get any hate recently.

He fixed the Necrons
Iyanden is well liked
sentinels of terra likewise (even has a jab at the Ultramarines)
Deamons are random... but not OP
High Elves is good and balance (unless your daemons)
Dark Elves is the mirror version of high elves (like they should)
And his fluff books over at Black Library are neet