8-year-old's Uzi death at gun show

[paragon1]

You know it is possible to pull a trigger accidentally. I recall one incident where a man fired a Desert Eagle, and the recoil caused him to accidentally pull the trigger again. Unfortunately, the recoil also caused the barrel to be pointed at his head.

That's kind of straining the term accidental. It was pure negligence that anyone that unprepared was allowed near a weapon.

I disagree. Google accidental.
ac·ci·den·tal ( k s -d n tl). adj. 1. Occurring unexpectedly, unintentionally, or by chance.
I seriously doubt the kid or the man I referred to expected to or intentionally pulled the trigger while the gun was pointing at their head.
And I was pointing out that it is possible for a perfectly mentally stable person to shoot themselves. But yes, in the case this thread is about, every single person involved in that incident should be charged with negligent homicide. If you read the rest of my post that you quoted, then I think my opinion to that effect becomes quite clear.

 

[Del-Toro]

For me it's not that they took him to a gun show, if they are mainly just on display or are being carefully used then it's just harmless fun, however, someone probably should have stepped in when the gun jammed and (I'm guessing) he looked down the barrel to see what was wrong. Also, why the hell was a 15 year old doing this, seriously, wtf. Also, an uzi, really? That harmless fun point I made back there would make more sense if you were using, like bolt action rifles like the Lee Enfeild .22, because then you can put on an English accent and talk about shooting jerries. But no, they used an Isreali light assault weapon. See, that's what you don't do at one of these things.

 

[rcuhljr]

Okay I'm sensing a flaw in your logic. People are driven to violence by extreme circumstances and (except for the minuscule percentage of our population with psychopathic illness) they do not commit violent acts for violences sake. Violence is rooted in misunderstanding and fear and desperation. Do you honestly believe people actively want to kill each other for no reason? What does that gain for anyone?

Where did I say no reason? I just said you need to figure out how to get rid of all the reasons first. You need to solve jealousy, perfect relationships, perfectly medicate all mental illnesses, remove all intoxicants, perfect family lives, and a laundry list of other tasks. Get those done and then come talk to me about gun ownership and I'll gladly discuss it. Violence isn't rooted in just fear and desperation, it's rooted in anger, aggression, and human nature.

 

[rcuhljr]

ac·ci·den·tal ( k s -d n tl). adj. 1. Occurring unexpectedly, unintentionally, or by chance.

Giving someone inexperienced in firearms a larger caliber semiautomatic pistol has good odds to cause something horrible, that doesn't make it unexpected or by chance. You could say unintentionally but that's as I said, negligence.

 

[cake42]

natural selection at it's finest

 

[chenry]

Everyone involved in this story is stupid.

 

[DigitalSushi]

This is officially the most hilarious troll I've ever dealt with.

Edit: My God, she's made the transformation. From Gun-Show Patron, to Firearms Instructor, to Scientist, and now she's a Goddamn Android. Truly our inferior logic of "no gun = no dead 8 year old" pales in comparison to her circular logic, irrelevant statements, poorly contextualized explanations and pseudo-statistics.

Honestly, this has gone on long enough. What this woman is doing is detracting from the seriousness of the situation at hand. What we should be doing is discussing why an 8 year old child was allowed possession of an uzi, not arguing with what is quite obviously a desperate child starving for attention (be it negative or positive).

...Though, I will admit, this is the most fun I've had in weeks. xD

You lot don't know to keep a troll in check, what needs to be done is someone that grabs her attention away by making a stupid arse comment for them to thin their resources while trying to reply to everyone. And keeping their attention their while others smack the shit out of them.

A troll by definition in wanting the attention will reply to everyone, and will spread their idea's thinly, unfortunately this has not happened in this instance and allowed Urura to bask in a more favourable light by being able to focus on the topics that she "controlled".

Essentially an internet troll is like a dog, if you don't know how to handle it will bite your face off.

Agreed, if we redefine "Somewhat" to mean "took a corner at fifth and bananas"

I must admit your rather good, but your over use of objectivism in your arguments dressing it up with whatever profession you currently claim to have is wearing thin. Its objectivism and its not new.

Dress up your moral compass how you like to me, its objectivism, best of luck with that.

 

[SirDoom]

Yea dude, Rifles are all in good fun, and so are Shotguns, but a damn UZI?????

I personally think Handguns and anything of the "Assault" variety should be reserved for 13 and up..... But yea. I see your point. Still, despite the fact that he "wanted" to fire the thing, it doesn't mean he should.

My point is that don't look at it and see the word "Uzi". That, as well as several other types of firearm, have been demonized by the media. If it had happened with a hunting rifle, it probably wouldn't have been nearly as big of a deal.

Anyway, you've got to start sometime. There is no better time than early in like. If you get taught the rules and safety guidelines as a child, you'll never forget them, and you avoid all those situations of "kids playing around get killed".

Edit- Fixed quote tags

 

[SimuLord]

Where's FPS Doug when you really need him? I know I'm extremely evil, but "BOOM HEADSHOT!" I can't help it. I'll take a window seat.

 

[IckleMissMayhem]

There is a huge difference between a responsible gun owner and a moron with a gun, do not confuse the two and do not punish the responsible gun owners for the morons and criminals. The FIRST and MOST IMPORTANT rule of being a responsible gun owner is to treat EVERY gun like it is loaded, even when you know it is not.

Cookie for you.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. This gun show didn't seem to have any safety procedures in place whatsoever. I've taught kids as young as 5 to shoot, and none of them have ever managed to blow their own brains out, or get an injury worse than a nettle sting (on an outdoor range)

You can buy clamps that hold the weapon securely, (and also limits the direction the weapon can be pointed) so all anyone has to do is pull the trigger. Easy and SAFE.

As I and others have said, you follow the easy to remember, common sense safety rules, you shouldn't get hurt. That includes only letting people who can safely operate the firearm do so.

 

[paragon1]

ac·ci·den·tal ( k s -d n tl). adj. 1. Occurring unexpectedly, unintentionally, or by chance.

Giving someone inexperienced in firearms a larger caliber semiautomatic pistol has good odds to cause something horrible, that doesn't make it unexpected or by chance. You could say unintentionally but that's as I said, negligence.

Who are you referring to? The guy with the Desert Eagle I was talking about or the 8 year old this thread was talking about? It would help if you would stop editing out most of my posts and all of our previous posts so I can remember exactly what was said. I also believe it's customary to put a "snip" where you've deleted something from someone's post.

 

[yzzlthtz]

Ahh, American gun shows. Where neo cons can rub elbows with neo nazis and show off their suitcase sniper rifles.
This story does not surprise me in the least.
Someone please invade us to give these people something to do with themselves.

 

[JWAN]

Ok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uqD8Ja6IZ0
guns dont hurt people people hurt people

 

[rcuhljr]

I hate the long reply chains that waste space, and it lets me abuse my memory. I was referring the to the obviously unfamiliar with pistols man with the Desert Eagle, hence why I said semi-automatic. I'm not interested in wrapping every comment I reply with a snip at the front and back. I think if someone wants to contribute to a conversation they can at least keep up. Heaven forbid they have to click the link in your name to read the post.

 

[Superior Mind]

Again, according to child psychology, an eight year old can fully understand the consequences to potentially the same degree as the 15 year old (many 15 year olds are still in the concrete stage). Which sort of undermines your argument.

Not to mention, it was a controlled environment. You could have had a 2 year old shoot it with the same amount of risk as an 80 year old.

Potentially understand? Is that good enough for you to give an Uzi to a small child? Having the potential to understand doesn't mean that one can understand and given that something going wrong can, and in this case has resulted in someone's death I would strongly suggest that the mere potential to understand is not even close to being good enough.

And this was not a controlled environment. A fifteen year old who clearly did not have the experience was acting as an instructor to an eight year-old in the use of, not an airgun or a humble .22 that most people start on, but an Uzi. The kid managed to shoot himself in the head, that kind of thing does not happen in a controlled environment.

Actually, the POTENTIAL to understand DOES mean that someone CAN understand.
That is, you know, the definition of potential. and can.

And it WAS a controlled environment. The defining factor of a controlled environment is that one or more variables are "sticky"; they take far more effort to cause them to change. In this case, several things were stuck in time, such as the environment and the weapon itself.

Controlled does not mean everything is accounted for, only that as much as can be accounted has been. Or, in a more scientific manner of speaking, that there are as few unnecessary variables as possible.

I should have phrased that better - my fault. Potential to understand does not mean that one does understand.

If I accept that "controlled environment" means what you says it does the only way I would reach the same conclusion, (that this was a controlled environment,) would be if I believed that an inexperienced fifteen year old giving an automatic weapon to an eight year-old was not an "unnessesary variable". I don't. I will never trust a fifteen year-old with an assault weapon, (unless they were accompanied by someone with considerable experience,) and I will never ever trust an eight year-old with one. As far as I see it that's just common sense.

Think about it another way though - with cigarettes, alcohol, even driving society imposes age limits, fully realising that without some maturity these things have the potential to cause harm. Why is this any different for firearms? Now, there are exceptions, I remember being given small glasses of bubbly or wine on special occasions as a kid, I was given little driving lessons where I'd shift the gear stick, I was given a cigarette a'la Calvin & Hobbes to try and convince me never to smoke, (it kind of worked,) and at a young age I got taught how to fire an airgun, (gradually moving up to .22s and so on.) But there's a difference between giving a kid experience with firearms and giving them an Uzi where your only example of experience or control takes the form of a fifteen year-old who obviously knows how to shoot a gun but doesn't seem to know anything else about them.

 

[VicunaBlue]

Ahh, American gun shows. Where neo cons can rub elbows with neo nazis and show off their suitcase sniper rifles.
This story does not surprise me in the least.
Someone please invade us to give these people something to do with themselves.

And cat shows are where the beastials and yiffers go and have a grand time. Its just a convention to look at certain products, and ammunition usually isn't present.

 

[Blair Bennett]

-snip-

You lot don't know to keep a troll in check, what needs to be done is someone that grabs her attention away by making a stupid arse comment for them to thin their resources while trying to reply to everyone. And keeping their attention their while others smack the shit out of them.

A troll by definition in wanting the attention will reply to everyone, and will spread their idea's thinly, unfortunately this has not happened in this instance and allowed Urura to bask in a more favourable light by being able to focus on the topics that she "controlled".

Essentially an internet troll is like a dog, if you don't know how to handle it will bite your face off.

Agreed, if we redefine "Somewhat" to mean "took a corner at fifth and bananas"

I must admit your rather good, but your over use of objectivism in your arguments dressing it up with whatever profession you currently claim to have is wearing thin. Its objectivism and its not new.

Dress up your moral compass how you like to me, its objectivism, best of luck with that.

A good point if there ever was one. I haven't had that much experience with trolls in the past, so strategy like that is sort of new to me, but I guess it's a good idea to have a bit of a strategy to stick to when dealing with them.

I will never trust a fifteen year-old with an assault weapon,

As a 15 year old, I feel I can safely say that this is a very good decision. I've been getting the impression that the generations of children are getting progressively less mature, and more stupid. It's disconcerting to know that, in all likelihood, I am also one of these people. xD My apologies for the enormous post...

 

[rcuhljr]

Ahh, American gun shows. Where neo cons can rub elbows with neo nazis and show off their suitcase sniper rifles.
This story does not surprise me in the least.
Someone please invade us to give these people something to do with themselves.

Except it wasn't at a gun show, it's like you purposefully work at being ignorant while trying to condemn others.

 

[FolkLikePanda]

Saft twats

 

[Megacherv]

I...but...how....why...

Sorry. I can't comphrend the stupidity that those parents and that 15 year must have between them. because of it they lost their son.

I just need to go kick a wall now.

Do you really think they should be breeding with that level of stupidity?