8-year-old's Uzi death at gun show

[shadowstriker86]

theres a few words that explain this, i'll try to form it in a sentence:

Dumbass parents who let 15 yr old handle a LIVE weapon

 

[jpoon]

That is a dumb fucking parent. No doubt the gun fearing public will cry for more "gun control" after something like this...

 

[laikenf]

Come on people, guns are weapons, not tools, there is a big difference:
-Tools are instruments or devices that where created for the purpose of facilitating a job or mechanical operations.
-Weapons are devices that are created for the purpose of attacking or defending.

BIG difference, please do not confuse both terms as some people in this thread often have. Of course anything in the hands of a human being can become a tool, like for example using an M-16 as a lever for a given situation, but was it designed as such?

Edit: I don't really think the problem with guns is their legal status, it's more of a control issue I guess.

You are aware that some of the first tools were spears and bows and arrows?

Those are weapons dude, created for the purpose of hunting (which involves attacking a prey).
Some tools like the flint where converted to weapons by simply adding a staff, but from that point it ceased to be a tool to become a weapon. There is a big difference.

Now you can argue that in modern times the line is kind of blurry because blades like kitchen knives can be perfectly used as weapons (among many other things), and that is true; but compare a hunting knife to a kitchen knife for example, you will clearly see that both where designed with different purposes in mind. Another example, and this one might be a little over the top, is the chainsaw; an extremely deadly weapon if used as such, but also extremely uncomfortable and impractical.

 

[Woem]

More children are killed by cars every year than guns. So should we ban the automobile?

Guns are dangerous, they are tools that are designed to kill and they do that job very well. However, just because something is dangerous does not mean it should be banned. It means that it should be treated with respect. The child was fatally injured because of an obvious failure to follow basic safety rules. Such as, always assume the gun is loaded.

As for the original poster being closed minded, yes you are. In fact, you sound like a fascist. Yes, wanting to take guns away from private citizens makes you a fascist. End of discussion.

I never wrote anywhere in my original post or any of my comments that guns should not be allowed to be used by citizens. All I said was that guns are not toys and that they should not be handled by kids, or by teens without proper supervision. And it's not the kid's fault that he did not "follow basic safety rules", in my opinion he should not have been in the situation of holding an gun in the first place.

 

[Seydaman]

This reminds me of a story I heard a year ago about a kid killing himself by accident with a gun, feel sorry for the kid tho

 

[Sightless Wisdom]

Which is more defective: The Uzi or the kid's family?

POINTS FOR INTELLIGENCE. Caps really were necessary, this is the most valid point in the whole thread.

 

[omega 616]

More children are killed by cars every year than guns. So should we ban the automobile?

Guns are dangerous, they are tools that are designed to kill and they do that job very well. However, just because something is dangerous does not mean it should be banned. It means that it should be treated with respect. The child was fatally injured because of an obvious failure to follow basic safety rules. Such as, always assume the gun is loaded.

As for the original poster being closed minded, yes you are. In fact, you sound like a fascist. Yes, wanting to take guns away from private citizens makes you a fascist. End of discussion.

I never wrote anywhere in my original post or any of my comments that guns should not be allowed to be used by citizens. All I said was that guns are not toys and that they should not be handled by kids, or by teens without proper supervision. And it's not the kid's fault that he did not "follow basic safety rules", in my opinion he should not have been in the situation of holding an gun in the first place.

Ok, I'll say it, I want guns taken away from private citizens. Why does any person need a gun of any caliber? No one in my family has touched or even seen a gun and nothing has ever happened to them.

Comparing a car to a gun is a little strange, a car is meant to improve lives and makes getting around and transport easier (or possible), a gun has no other reason to exist than to hurt or kill, there polar opposites.

In a perfect world no body (including the armed forces) would need guns or any form of weapon but they would need transport.

 

[Epifols]

If the gun hadn't jammed, we'd have better results.

 

[quiet_samurai]

that must be my European close-mindedness.

Wouldn't go so far as to call it close mindedness, but definitely a seperation of cultures.

They are called accidents for a reason. I don't really think anyone here is at blame completely. Here in the USA there is a very deep seeded firearm culture, just like a sports culture, car culture, art culture, people do these things and meet with others who do them as well for the purpose of discussiong common likes. This kids family must have obviously been part of that culture. Gunshows don't support violence and are in no way threatening at all, so taking a child to one shouldn't even be an issue.

And questioning the age of the instructor isn't very fair either. At 15 I had my own firearms, used for hunting and such, and was allowed to go hunting by myself and I absolutely knew all the rules and safety measures required to minimize the potential of accidents. I know alot of 15 year old that are smarter then many 30 year olds so calling the kids age into question shouldn't be an issue either.

The only thing I really find odd is actually letting an 8 year old shooot the firearm. I was about the same age as he when I shot my first gun, but is was a single shot .22 rifle, not a fully automatic assault weapon. I have fired a fully automatic weapon before and it takes quite a bit of strength to keep it under control. But maybe the kid has shot one before and never had any previous problems, none of us here know that. Maybe he did everything right and it was truly just an accident. Alot of people have said a firarm is only a tool.... and that's true. Tools breakdown all the time and depending on the tool itself some people do get hurt or killed. Like I said in the beginning, they are called accidents for a reason.

Are they legally available for civilian use? As far as I can see the Uzi, Mini Uzi and Micro Uzi (this is the one the kid was testing) are not available, but the Uzi Pistol is. And that's "just" a semi-automatic pistol.

No, you have to have a special liscense or be a registed gun collector or dealer to even posess fully automatic weapons.

 

[gremily]

Which is more defective: The Uzi or the kid's family?

The Family. It's never the guns fault. That kid should not have been operating an Uzi.

 

[Sparcrypt]

Someone said guns arent toys, to this you are right. Cars arent toys either. Lots of people use cars to have fun though, both responsibly and irresponsibly. The same goes for guns: They arent toys but they can be fun. I dont see you freaking out over the deaths in any major motorsports event. 'How can anyone let their son drive a fast car!' You can argue that the situation isnt equal all you want but in the end they are mechanical devices with a propensity for death.

I basically agree with most of what you're saying, but I hate this argument. Cars are not DESIGNED to be lethal weapons, guns are. I would also be interested to see the stats of accidents and death if guns were in use the same amount of time by the same amount of people that cars are actively driving on our roads.

Your comparison to major sporting events might be valid if say, the deaths being talked about were those of professional sports shooters... but in this case it's more like putting an 8 year old behind the wheel of a F1 and letting him go nuts... I think that might make the papers pretty quick.

So yes, your post was quite well worded until that part which is just a stupid rationalisation when there are much more legitimate ones to be made. Another favorite is 'guns are just tools they aren't weapons' - again, stop being stupid. They are a weapon, they are designed as such and they are designed to kill. That doesn't make them inherently bad or mean they should be banned completely, but you seem a lot less idiotic if you call things what they are.

My personal problem with gun shows is this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-bloomberg/gun-show-undercover_b_312339.html - mentally ill? Criminal record? All good, buy a gun for cash, completely untraceable anywhere in the country! Anyone arguing this is a good thing is seriously mentally retarded. I'm all for people owning guns if they want but the ease in which people gain guns in parts of the US is insane.

 

[bushwhacker2k]

I dunno why people keep badmouthing America about guns and violence.

I have not seen a gun since I was in elementary school when a police officer showed me his pistol.

I have never been interested in guns, and I have never seen much violence.

 

[Talendra]

Well really I have no problem with the kid being at a gun show. A teenager working with the guns and a kid being allowed to use the gun given to him by the teenager I have a problem with. Maybe with a trained professional, even then it would be iffy for some people, but a teenager?
Sure the kid should be able to enjoy the gun show, many kids love guns, but unnecessary risks like this should not be taken,

 

[SirDoom]

Ok, I'll say it, I want guns taken away from private citizens. Why does any person need a gun of any caliber? No one in my family has touched or even seen a gun and nothing has ever happened to them.

Comparing a car to a gun is a little strange, a car is meant to improve lives and makes getting around and transport easier (or possible), a gun has no other reason to exist than to hurt or kill, there polar opposites.

In a perfect world no body (including the armed forces) would need guns or any form of weapon but they would need transport.

I hate to use analogies right off the bat, but I feel it is necessary to do so in this case.

Think of it in a different way- If nobody in your family ever ate burgers or fries, would you feel the need to ban ketchup from the house? I mean, you've never touched a bottle of it, never seen a bottle of it, and you have yet to be in a situation in which you have needed it. What's the purpose of keeping it around?

Why? There is always a possibility someone will bring home an order of fries one day. Perhaps a guest to your house, or something. Then (analogy stops here) you have the people that use firearms all the time. Hunters, competitive sport shooters, and people who just like to head out to the shooting range occasionally and do a little target shooting. A vast majority of them have never been harmed by their weapons, and have never harmed anyone else with their weapons. What justification do you have to take from those people, many of whom are probably more trained to fire a weapon than most cops?

The way I see it, there is only one situation in which banning guns doesn't lead to disaster. That being if you manage to destroy every single one of them in the world along with any knowledge of how to make then and how they work. That is not going to happen.

Once something is introduced into the world, it seeps deep into the cracks and stays there. You might be able to easily clean off the surface, but you'll never be able to completely eradicate it. Even if you do manage to physically "completely destroy" something, the knowledge of it still exists, and someone out there could always be determined enough to make more. For that reason, banning guns is a bad thing- it is an action which serves only to disarm those who would follow the law and give up their weapons.

In a "perfect" world, we might not need guns. This is not a perfect world. It has been contaminated. We can dilute to contaminant as much as we want, but the world will never be perfect and pure again until it is nothing more than a memory.

 

[MBergman]

I dunno why people keep badmouthing America about guns and violence.

I have not seen a gun since I was in elementary school when a police officer showed me his pistol.

I have never been interested in guns, and I have never seen much violence.

Well correct me if I'm wrong but the USA have much less restrictive gun laws than many other countries and quite a lot of people getting shot don't they?

On the gun issue I like what Eddie Izzard said: "They say guns don't kill people, people do! But hey, the gun helps doesn't it? Me going up shouting BANG! isn't gonna kill to many people!"

 

[shotgunbob]

Guns dont kill people people who cant safetly operate guns do

 

[quiet_samurai]

I dunno why people keep badmouthing America about guns and violence.

I have not seen a gun since I was in elementary school when a police officer showed me his pistol.

I have never been interested in guns, and I have never seen much violence.

You know that's also another good point. Even in a country with so many firearms most Americans only ever, ever see them when they are dealing with law enforcement. It's not we are all walking around carrying and quick to draw.

 

[bushwhacker2k]

I dunno why people keep badmouthing America about guns and violence.

I have not seen a gun since I was in elementary school when a police officer showed me his pistol.

I have never been interested in guns, and I have never seen much violence.

Well correct me if I'm wrong but the USA have much less restrictive gun laws than many other countries and quite a lot of people getting shot don't they?

On the gun issue I like what Eddie Izzard said: "They say guns don't kill people, people do! But hey, the gun helps doesn't it? Me going up shouting BANG! isn't gonna kill to many people!"

It's true that guns are a bad thing to have around when murderous urges peak, I have no argument there.

But while America may have more freedom in this topic, I feel like people just use it as an excuse to bash America and its inhabitants. Frankly while I disagree with a lot of what happens in or because of America, I find that it is one of the most individualistic nations, it does things that other countries are scared to do. Japan does this somewhat as well. I'm not saying that [insert your country here] is too much a wuss to step out of its comfort box, I'm just making a point.

 

[Insanum]

File it under 'Natural Selection' and move on.