A Challenge to Pro-#GamerGaters and Anti-#Gamergaters

[t00bz]

Challenge accepted!

Hey guys and gals. My name is Jordan and I have been gaming since I was 5 years old. Like Sethran, I am an omni-gamer. I play all types of games and enjoy them all for what they are, even the weird stuff like Hatoful Boyfriend and Goat Simulator. I had an interesting life growing up as the biracial son of two lesbians who raised me to treat everyone equally and if I was going to hate, to hate for a persons actions or words and not for something they cannot control.

Now, why do I support #GamerGate? Because I am tired. Tired of having the identity of being a gamer treated like it is tainted. Tired of being told that I am killing gaming for being male or for enjoying the female form as it is depicted in games. Tired of having the most innocuous of scenes in games put under the microscope and called sexist, misogynistic, racist, bigoted, etc. And most of all, I am tired of games 'journalists' and the SJW tumblr feminists being at the forefront of this campaign.

That being said, I am sorry. To Anita Sarkessian, even though I do believe that she should be criticized, I am sorry that you have gotten so much hate that has nothing to do with your work. To Zoe Quinn, I am sorry that people got so interested in your personal life, but must admit that a LOT of you people in the indie scene are corrupt and I am glad that is getting exposed.

All I want, all I ever wanted, is to be treated like a person and to have my actions and words be what you judge me by. Not have you judge me and all gamers with a broad brush because a small, but very, very vocal, minority of my community are assholes. Most of us want more females in games, both as characters and as designers. We want equality. We want what you want. We just also want games journalists to be open and honest about their friendships, relationships or if they support a person financially that they are writing about.

 

[JohnFei]

Name's John Fei. If you're Mandarin-speaking, take of that what you will. I'm a story-driven filthy casual poser who loves subtle games like SoTC and Dark Souls. And Papers please, obviously. I'm all for games that are naturally diverse, that is less about preaching progress, and more about delivering a good narrative and gameplay. I want diversity in games to be something that comes naturally, that folds into the story and gameplay seamlessly, and not some artificial, confrontational, with-us-or-against-us bullshit.

Im pro-Gamergate because I have some experience in being bullied for things I enjoy. And the journos, the SJWs, gleeful shitflinging goons, they have proven again and again that they are bullies. And they're not just bullies to the entire gaming community, they also enjoy attacking depressed suicidal men, feminist charity events, or women and minorities in #notyourshield. Every day these despicable people claim to advocate social justice and hijack it for their own gain, is another day that delays actual progress.

Bullies are socially savvy, they are insecure, and they know how to manipulate the narrative. They are often histrionic and self-centered, with little to no empathy for people that don't give a shit about them. They also like to think they can get away with anything. Well guess what, not this time. In their hubris they've united the brow-beaten gamers who thought they were alone. This time, these bullies will be held responsible.



I can't apologize for what others have done. I think the Zoepost is sloppy and morally questionable. But if the evidence is true then Eron is a victim of emotional abuse and "rape," according to the definition and admission of the rapist herself. Two wrongs are two wrongs, we should be able to talk about them separately. The fact that he was the target of victim-blaming, that his experience is glossed over and handwaved away, speaks volumes about the sort of "equality" and "social justice" we're dealing with here. Not to mention the other victims of ZQ who came forth that were also systematically shut down and silenced.

ZQ and AS claim to have been harassed and driven out of their houses, and I'm willing to TrustButVerify. But I have yet to see any convincing evidence that any of that is true, or that it's perpetrated by Gamergate. Same thing with this supposed flood of harassments and threats directed at developers. Why in fucks name would any Gamergate supporter target devs? We're fighting FOR developers so they don't get bullied by SJWs for chrissakes. These are people who have demonstrated from day one that they will use underhand tactics to smear and false flag us, remember head mod of /V/ ala Phil Fish. The only stuff I can recall that might qualify as legit dev backlash is Greg "literal white knight" Costikyan and that Borderlands dude who called gamers pedophiles to bait response from gamers then claim victimhood. Again I fail to see why I should feel sorry for deranged people who like to piss off their fans just to see the reaction.

What I COULD say is that I've seen Gaters that get too trigger-happy with the accusations, and I don't agree 100% with the controversial figures like Milo or Baldwin. I also see some Gaters tagging some figures in posts that ridicule them, which is easily construed as harassment. I CAN apologize for the negativity, the anger and bitterness that sometimes seep into my own comments. I constantly try to remind myself to not be tainted by the hate speech flung against us, and to focus on the positive side, of the alliances and dialogues between different people from different sites/race/gender/sexuality/politics, all to protest against a common enemy.

And I think that's the most important thing that came out of GG and NYS. Despite our differences, we are all gamers, and we are alive.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Snippy McSnips, Snippener of Snips

Thanks for this idea, sir/madam. It's been pretty refreshing to see all of these views and backgrounds being, for the most part, expressed civilly in here.

So, well...why the hell not?

Hi there!

My username on pretty much errything is LostGryphon or some variation with numbers and I've been lurking here since '09, but became somewhat active once I'd made an account in '10.

I'm a 25-year-old white guy with an AA in General Studies (ie. worthless) degree, meandering about in an effort to figure out what exactly I want to do with the remainder of my time here on Earth, while working a few part time jobs to pay the bills. I'm a left leaning, "resolute" agnostic with a few marked conservative elements that sort of disbar me from entering the cool lefty kids' yurt and I'm far too liberal to be welcomed at the cool righty kids' ranch, while being too far to the former to really consider myself a "centrist." 'Tis a lonely existence, to be sure.

My gaming experience has been long and varied. I've been, what I'd affectionately refer to as, a gamer ever since I was about 5-6. Earliest experiences were with friends and my dad, playing NES or SNES games, mucking with gamegenies, blowing into cartridges, and puzzling over why my copies of Rebel Assault and Dark Forces weren't working. I remember being terrified of Doom and Hexen as a little lad, but absolutely loved the escape that games provided me, since, much like the stereotype, I was bullied near constantly while at school.

We moved around several times when I was little, which led to ostracism, and all of the fun shit that goes along with it. It got better with time, but eh, I don't really begrudge the people involved. Kids are jerks, after all. Gaming, however, really did help me through it and I've become a lot more well adjusted thanks, in part, to the hobby. Some of my best and longest lasting friends, to this day, as well as relationships are owed, exclusively, to gaming...So, seeing the vicious tirades against something I hold dear and, by extension, all that I value in it...well, suffice it to say, has irked me a bit.

With that bit of personal/political information out of the way...

I'm decidedly Pro-GamerGate.

I joined into this after the initial flurry of the "Zoe Post" had broken and entered the original mega thread expecting to see the usual inflammatory back and forth between established forum personalities, you know, the usual...and, instead, found a flurry of censorship (4chan of all places!?) across different websites, DMCAs against videos by the person in question, TotalBiscuit being attacked for a centrist view (as well as 25,000 comments being deleted/people being shadow banned), the InternetAristocrat's first video, and, most aggravating, the doxxing and ignoring of TFYC.

But, then, came the dozen or so articles from gaming journalists decrying the existence of gamers and claiming them to be, not only a horrible bunch responsible for all of the evils and perceived sexist elements in the industry, but also to be "on the way out" or "dead." Abominable personalities like Ben Kuchera and Leigh Alexander were brought to my attention due to the onslaught.

The last thing really got me involved and, man, it's been one long trip down the proverbial rabbit hole ever since.

In regards to Quinn in particular: I do not, I repeat, I do not give a rat's ass about Zoe Quinn or who she does or doesn't sleep with. She, and anyone else, can fuck who they want, when they want, as many times as they want. It does not matter to me. I do not care if she were a he, or it, or a sentient fucking pinata.

What matters to me is the breach of basic journalistic ethics involved in such relationships and the apparent willingness of people within the gaming journalistic sphere to completely disregard said ethics so long as it serves their aims.

It's about ethical concerns to me. It's about journalists not recusing themselves when there is evident potential for conflicts of interest, be it financial or "physical." I've taken journalism courses. This is extremely basic stuff. I'm not sure why, or how, there could be any controversy here in that sense.

For reference, I was livid about the whole Chobot in ME3 thing and, frankly, hadn't heard about the DoritoGate nonsense prior to this whole debacle. I'm aghast, in retrospect, that the DG thing wasn't bigger...yet that leads into my next point...

In regards to GamerGate's beginning: I believe that the reason this got so big is because...well, the massive amount of information/evidence available, the sheer number of connections, and, frankly, the blanket censorship taking place all across the internet and the subsequent awful response from gaming journalists.

These folks apparently never learned that you don't put out a fire by attempting to "conceal" it with gasoline.

In regards to the "misogyny/anti-sjw" angle: I won't deny that it's also, for some, a backlash against so called "SJW" minded people pushing their agenda in the medium and, were the ideologies flipped, I'm sure it would result in much the same sort of eventual backlash, should it have a sufficient catalyst. Personally, I'd be on the front lines in either case.

Now...I can only speak for myself here...

I support more diverse games. I support more "appropriately dressed" female/male characters in games. I support more female characters in games in general. I support better writing in general.

I also support games that don't necessarily want to be more diverse. I also support more "inappropriately dressed" female/male characters in games. I also support games who don't want to include more female characters. I also
support games with shoddy writing that want to be nothing other than "fun."

My entire problem with the "SJW" crowd is that the second paragraph, to their loudest and extreme elements, is unacceptable or that it conflicts with the first. With this in mind, I do not support them or their goals, or their shaming, intolerant tactics. I believe in free expression via the medium of art, be it games, books, film, paintings, etc.

I cannot stress this enough... I abhor political correctness. This coming from a lefty agnostic.

This is the short/skimmy/summarized version, mind, I've gone over this so, so, so many times in the past month or so (god, it's been that long?) and I'm pretty well spent.

As for the apology: I don't support harassment. With that in mind, I don't feel I need to apologize for things I haven't done and neither does anyone on the "other" side.

I do, however, have a definite problem with the people who don't acknowledge that there are folks on both sides being assholes. *shrug*

...This got a hell of a lot longer than I'd intended. Apologies.

 

[psijac]

I am Vietnamese and was born almost a decade after he was freed, I'm I suppose to accept personal responsibility for horrific things done to him because the people who did so share a label that I do?

I'm a white male - tell me about it.

Food is pretty good as long as you like fish and salt and MSG. Its a good race to be because people assume you are non-threatening but also wonder if you know kung-fu. There are no negative stereo-types but also no white guilt either.

 

[JohnFei]

I wish more Anti-GG people would share their experience.

Food is pretty good as long as you like fish and salt and MSG. Its a good race to be because people assume you are non-threatening but also wonder if you know kung-fu. There are no negative stereo-types but also no white guilt either.

THere used to be an Pho place near my house, the soup was ridiculously good. After they closed down I'e been looking for an alternative ever since.

 

[ohnoitsabear]

Ehh, what the heck, I'll bite. This thread seems civil enough.

I'm a 20 year old college student currently typing this post instead of studying for a test that's tomorrow (yay priorities!). I've been gaming pretty much for as long as I can remember. First system I owned was a Game Boy Color, although I did a fair amount of playing games on the family computer. Spent substantial amount of time during elementary school over at my friends' places playing Mario Kart and Smash Brothers. Currently I primarily game on PC, although I do a fair amount on my 3DS, and I recently picked up a WiiU. I tend to play games in a variety of genres, and some of my favorite games include Morrowind, Dota, Pokemon, and Psychonauts.

I guess if you had to put me on a side, it would be the anti-gamergate side, although I freely admit that I've overall tried to avoid this whole debacle. It's not even that I necessarily disagree with everything they're saying; I'm all for more disclosure in regards to gaming press stuff, and I won't try to argue that a lot of gaming press isn't a bit shit.

But that's the thing, being a bit shit isn't the same thing as being corrupt. I really think that most of the things that people parade around as signs of corruption could be explained by numerous other factors, many of which are products of the strange way the games industry works in regards to PR.

The biggest thing for this, though, is I firmly believe that even if every single accusation made by the gamergate people was true and a sure fire sign of corruption, it still wouldn't matter one damn bit. The people in games press really don't have the power to actually do anything substantial, even within gaming. In the grand scheme of things, I can't help but feeling that what the games press does really doesn't matter all that much.

Also, I really don't get the fixation gamergate people seem to have on indie developers, when there are so many blatantly obvious cases of AAA publishers trying to sway press in dishonest ways.

But ultimately, I'm not so much anti-gamergate as I am anti-dickwaffles. And honestly, the amount of dickwaffles campaigning under the gamergate banner is astounding. I have seen so much sexist bullshit and so many uncalled for personal attacks that I cannot in good conscience get behind them under any circumstance. I'm not going to try to argue that there hasn't been shit-flinging on both sides, or that the shit that anti-gamergate people have been throwing somehow smells nicer, but from my admittedly limited perspective, I'm seeing a lot more nasty shit coming out from under the gamergate banner than from the opposing side.

I'm sure that most of the people that are rallying the gamergate cry are perfectly nice, normal people, and not at all dickwaffles. But too many times I have seen nasty side of this debacle being brought up, only to have it dismissed, written off, or downplayed, and not standing up against the shit is really hurting your movement.

Anywho, apology time. I'm not going to apologize for anything either side has said or done, partially because I don't try to partake in the discussion on either side, and partially because I'm too busy condemning the horrible shit these people have said and done. That said, I will apologize any inaccurate or misrepresentative things I've said about what's going on. Like I said, I've been trying to avoid most of this shitstorm, so I don't completely know what's going on. Also, I would like to apologize if you thought I was calling you a dickwaffle. I did not mean to insult anybody, and my intent was merely to describe my feelings on the matter. Finally, I apologize to anybody that read through all of my jumbled thoughts on this whole mess. Seriously, not even I want to do that, and I wrote this thing.

 

[C F]

[...] Finally, I apologize to anybody that read through all of my jumbled thoughts on this whole mess. Seriously, not even I want to do that, and I wrote this thing.

Heh, I was teetering off and on about replying to this thread; riding the inexorable analytical current that thrums through my mind about what my words actually have to contribute on a subject I've only watched and have not staked a single interest in, but the odd thing is literally anyone other than me can ramble on and I don't mind. I could not hold a single criticism against someone simply sitting down and dumping out their thoughts on a public forum. I actually hold a spark of respect for Sethran for setting up this thread, because what I've come up with is the actual issue about #GamerGate is the fact there's two opposed sides (and several other neutral ones, make no mistake) and one absurd lack of communication.

Spoiler: Spoilered for length

Well, I'm a paragraph in, so let's hit it off! I go by C F for little more than novelty's sake at this point, and I've been a mild online presence on the Escapist since... 2012 I do believe. I'm 20 years old, and my dad's been playing computer games since before I was born. I started my gaming with Pokémon Crystal for the GBA, and have since played games across the PS2, Gamecube, Wii, 360, Nintendo handhelds, and the PC. I am a gamer, and one of the few things I will actively assert is that there is no negative stigma associated with this term.
Let me also say: I am wrong; stigma is a tricky thing and quite fluid in how it manifests since it's all about perceptions people hold, heuristics, and the type of character you portray to others which fuels a person's said perceptions and heuristics. There is still a very real chance you could wind up in a scenario where nobody shares this hobby and explaining it requires you to choose your words carefully because first impressions are a lot more important than people think and what you say is less important than how you say it. I'm also an idealist, and proud to be a gamer. So I act in accordance to the ideal that I hope to help make true in the eyes of others. There's nothing wrong with being a gamer.

I am a Business Administration major, going for my four-year degree. I am a gamer. I am quite passionate about videogames, their community, their culture, and I hold concerns about the future of the industry. Here at the Escapist, I think most of us would!

It's actually for this reason I have been pilfering my brain and throwing ideas against the wall as to why I don't have a stake in #GamerGate. On the one hand, I have never had need of a documented presence of myself in the form of blogs nor do I partake in social media. I have not hence given myself a voice in these circles, so why take a side? But on the other hand, there's a lot of stuff going down, and it isn't strictly about a possible happening of some indie dev I never heard about sleeping with a game reviewer I don't listen to for a high review score that's ultimately meaningless. I've listened to my parents argue, and I recognize the signs when a massive argument absolutely cascades out of something so trivial and petty no one should really care.

There's something, actually quite a few things in this mess, that apparently need a resolution. Badly.

And there is zero conflict resolution going on. Heck, from what I've seen there are those on both sides just seem content to argue, instigate, and generally go to war over a muddy pool of things that may or may not be issues until one side openly admits defeat. That is something you should not be eager to take up arms in, but it IS something you keep a close eye on in case the stars align on an especially crappy morning and you find yourself waking up to it being relevant. Being apathetic suddenly switches from the easiest, zero-effort response to not actually being a possibility anymore. Keeping informed and thoughtful on the issue translates to being ready, and that's rewarded.

With everyone giving their two cents about #GamerGate, it's easy to pick a side and listen to what they have to say. It requires all of one opinion. If you throw a rock and you don't strike someone's opinion on this mess, well... congratulations, I guess. I certainly can't do it. It is significantly more difficult to listen to what everyone has to say, distill their points, and formulate your own informed take on it. I've been watching videos, reading blog posts, forum posts, and articles on and off for the past two weeks, and I'm still not at that point.

So yeah. Sethran's made a thread that's doing something to help that process along: he's putting out a call for people to walk forward and share why. The 'why' is a lot more important than the 'what'.
I like it because I can just read through it. And if #GamerGate confuses you (and for a while it did for me), you can at least see what the Escapist community thinks about it and why they're willing to speak out for or against this movement.

So kudos to you Sethran, and kudos to anyone who participates in his challenge!

I have still not chosen a side, as it were. Too much underhanded stuff associated for and against #GamerGate, and I spend too much time actually playing videogames to stop and pick up the banner and join any cause.
Like everyone else, my heart goes out to those who get hounded by all the crap that's gone down in this debacle, got harassed by idiots who walk for a cause but go about supporting it the wrong way, and those who receive unjust prejudice and death threats.
#GamerGate's a mess, up and down the street, both ways. The one thing I'm sorry about is that not enough people who are arguing are willing to understand their opposition.

But the one thing that's critical is achieving an understanding of where everyone's coming from. And I think, somewhere on the internet at least, we need a place like this.
I encourage you to continue posting, guys.

 

[Aesir23]

My name is Emily, I'm 25 years old but will be 26 in December, and I currently live in Canada. I've been gaming since about 1992-1993 with the NES as my very first experience with video games but gaming didn't become my primary hobby until about 1998 with the PS1. I have a huge interest in history and biology to the point where I watch documentaries for the sheer enjoyment of it. I also recently graduated from Herzing College (diploma mill) and have been job hunting since then.

Anyway, the trick part is that I am neither Pro or Anti Gamergate.

Pro-Gamergate

I want better ethics as far as the conduct of individuals in the industry (both development and journalism) is concerned and just to improve the industry as a whole. However, I have also seen individuals claiming to be Pro-Gamergate become extremely hostile to the idea of gaming being more inclusive and take on a "we don't want them in our hobby" approach. While I haven't done any of it this is something I'm sorry for and it's something that I not only find to be embarrassing by proxy but also to be discouraging since I'm in one of those groups considered "unwelcome" by the extremists simply by accident of birth.

Anti-Gamergate

I want gaming to be more inclusive in narration and with characters if only because seeing the same thing over and over for the past twenty years or so is boring. I also want gaming to be more inclusive so that people like myself don't have to be hesitant about using a mic for fear of being kicked from a game or harassed beyond the standard trash talk and "back in the kitchen jokes".

However, I have seen people take this way too far and treat anyone of the "norm" (severe quotation marks, I couldn't think of what else to use so please don't kill me) as the enemy and act just as bad as the worst elements of the Gamergate faction. Although I haven't done any of this (as far as I'm aware) I am sorry for this and just like above, I find it discouraging since I'm one of those deemed as the "enemy" by the extremists of Anti-Gamergate for no other reason than accident of birth.

 

[goukihasashurasenku]

TLDR:

my viewpoints in how to move forward resonate with this https://soundcloud.com/armorybits/episode-6 this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3Guzk3FKXs and this.. which is something we need to be mind of regarding radicals and NOT DO https://medium.com/@cainejw/rules-for-radicals-or-how-to-have-the-worst-conversation-in-your-life-2f8efe3c2dfe

if people are willing to read how I feel then here it goes....


ok I might as well come out alittle. I consider myself a gamer, around 25 years old and have grown up with alot with gaming. first experiences was street fighter 2 and the game and watch zelda game up to now where I play all types of games ranging from fps, rpgs, fpsrpg, platformers, point and clicks, and others ( ranging from things like ecco the dolphin, though never able to finish, to system shock 2). I tend to be retro with my titles and feel that creativity is not being explored in terms of depth in story or invovled gameplay as much as a few older titles (particularly late 90s pc games) however I am open to all means of experiementation (provided they are not too self indulgent and are NOT style over substance in terms of story and gameplay .. if that makes sence).

I defend gaming culture as gaming has made me who I am. my very first and one of my closest friends I made through gaming. I remember it well. we had a free game day in school, and he was watching me on my gameboy pocket playing wario blast, where I managed to beat the last boss (that weird bomberman bot with the two cannons). he invited me over his to finish it, and while we played to get to that boss, we talked and found we had ALOT in common, and thus became very close friends. In addition I made other close friends through MMOS and message boards regarding Final fantasy, which I interact with regularly online and off. because I was a gamer I made my closest friends, through games, where as in my living environment, and places I grew up in, I found myself being marginalized and at times bullied. (but thats another story..) meeting friends like that, MEANS ALOT TO ME, and I feel that these "gamers are dead" articles kind of dismiss these elements and eraze the feelings of individuals who have had good experiences being gamers...

I will also state that I generally lean with GG. we have a mixed group of people under it (enthic,sexuality,gender, and beliefs.. including feminists). some I don't agree with, however there are alot of people who are doing good and mean well (such as supporting the fine young capatilists a organsation that tries to get more women into game development, which is not getting enough coverage because people from 4 chan supported them, even though 4 chan are made up of different individuals, some good some bad..). At the moment Alot of places where we should be able to voice our opinions such as reddit and even 4chan, are censoring viewpoints critical of the gaming press, or associated with gamergate, and I think that is unfair...


this is mainly because , while I also feel while all sides are suffering in all this atm, the gaming press is in a position to get better coverage from other sources as quite a few ppl have access to alot of other publication, and gamers are losing their voice, not getting fair coverage and are being generalized as bigots. Gamergate is made up of individals, essentially like gamers are made up of individuals, however I feel the gaming press are painting gamers in broadstrokes, for their own gain, and to detract attention from some of their actions, which is quite dubious.. and I feel thats unfair. Alot of the press are being dismissive of their audience , and need to be way more responsible due to their position of power. I also think its unfair to gaslight people siding with GG as misogynists, or interalized misogynists if they are women. There are ALOT of varying viewpoints and people with different experiences, and while I can find value with certain elements of certain viewpoints, I feel that the gaming press is pushing a singluar perspective on others, with alot of bias, and are alittle narrow in their viewpoints.

a big problem I have with the gamers are dead articles I have posted to someone else and goes like this:

It?s arguable if in fact the gamer label is becoming dated or not, but the fact of the matter is that there are plenty of people who still identify as gamers. Whether you like it or not, quite a few of those gamers are actually people of varying ethnicities, sexualities, genders and beliefs. Even IF you feel YOUR experience of gamers conforms to the image of misogyny, you?re still discounting the very existence and positive experiences of anyone else who identifies themselves under that title also. It?s the erasure of an entire gamut of different individuals in order to dovetail gamers to this personal vindictive narrative. A narrative from a supposedly put-upon media source, which are actually using this narrative for their own personal gain. It is a means to spite gamers who are making legit criticisms of the current gaming press as it is easier to denounce gamers as bigots than answering these criticisms.

also perhaps you may have an idea of how the dynamics of attaching hatred to a term works; in this case the term ?gamer? . When someone makes a singular and negative summation of large group of people by attaching them with one absolute word, you erase and lessen the human element of those who exist behind that term. This gives rise to allowing others to say and do whatever they want to that group. If that group is seen as less than human, why would anyone care what happens to them?.

These dynamics may not work in nearly the same extreme as notable events of the past, however the spirit of such a tactic still exists.

we need to assess the positives and negatives imho and be fair... I am generally left leaning, however will DEFEND the right for someone to express something even if I don't agree. I feel that critics and some of the press should not coerse developers to change things that don't suit their sensibilties (example : http://orogion.deviantart.com/journal/Save-the-Boob-plate-380891149 ). but instead if they do not like what they see , instead support and introduce alternatives into the market in a way that is proactive. (again like the fine young capatilists https://twitter.com/TFYCapitalists , ALL OF US can learn ALOT from them.)

we should also aim to introduce a variety of representations of different individuals and people of different backgrounds (including women, homosexuals, races) from a position of honesty, but not in away that promotes tokenism because people have demanded you to do it, you are taking away their own personal artistic vision of the game and freedom of expression.

If you feel certain representations are bad (there are certain representations I don't like), fine just vote with your wallet and promote developers who are in line with your sensibilites who make games you will like , but don't force others to change as well. Variety and diversity means including games and representations that you don't particularly like as well as ones that you do. I don't like some of the gritty military FPS for example, I didn't like certain representations of women in certain games, yet I will defend their right to exist.

I also believe that while journalists/op-ed writers can have a right to express certain things, I feel However they should'nt gaslight, kafkatrap, guilt trip and even bully people into believing their beliefs. yes I agree sexism is a problem , HOWEVER its a bigger problem that involves culture and the world at large and not just gaming. gaming does not germinate sexism. I believe sexism may have bleed into gaming from our world culture at large, however unfortunately the reality is these sexists exist in all walks of life, and you will find them in crop up in different circles, however I feel they are a small minority. gamers are not sexist, individuals are sexist. if you want to deal with this, we need to be constructive and talk about ways forward and approach in good faith, not demonise all gamers and coerse/threating them into believing you and if they don't you will label them sexist, as those are the tactics of a bully and a radical.

The power disparity is massive and I think the gaming press need to be aware of their own power, and are being quite irresponsible with their power and need to be accountable on some of the things they said and self cognizant AND not just blame it all on gamers. this also includes supporting certain developers and fraternizing with them, then giving them favourable coverage (even in a small way). I appreciate you can't achieve 100% objectivity in reviewing, however IT SHOULD be something people should vie for, as a means to inform the public and being fair.



I am willing to talk to anyone outside twitter and social media =) provided the convo is civil and respects both parties.

 

[Vault101]

this is silly

but I'll bite

I'm more or less anti-gamer gate

I'm 22 female and not entirely sure where I sit on the Kinsey scale but I know my level of obsession with OITNB (and the charachter Alex V therein) might indicate something....or not...but I like that kind of thing in my fiction (like..a lot) so its important to me, and why I bring it up

I read a lot....had an obsession with games at a young age (or a fixation..I think it might have been related to some...mental issues but thats neither here nor there) I work a standard basic admin job and like to write and draw (neither of which I'm good at but all good things take time) IO read mostly fiction (sci fi...classics and anything good) but have recently been trying to branch out into non-fiction....I seem to acumilate a lot of stuff, most recently has been old paperbacks and those "commando" comics from the second hand bookstore...mabye I'll go back there and see if they got any westerns,

I've been gaming for a while and still love games even if my tastes have...matured a bit. Its the reason I feel so sad and frustrated at the reaction so many people have in regards to this....games I love like Mass effect/dragon age/fallout/Gone home and above all Bioshock Infinite (a rare gem these days) are wonderful and importantly are INCLUSIVE

its in the recent few years I've started to realise how male-centric how media is...and its started to bother me

and again its so sad that people get angry and defensive and dismissive, its infuriating almost itsd its like how "I" might have been 5 years ago...people just don't want to listen, they want hings to "go away" and somtimes that manifests itself in disguritng behaviour...but most of the time its just....yeah

its the moment you realise the things you like do not like you back...so fuck it, I read a lot more books thease days, mabye I always prefered story over games...at least books are diverse

Its not that anti-corruption is not a good cause...its that I belive gamer gate is just a shell for the collective rage of people who feel threataned

I never felt right about Vivian James...I couln't put my finger on it untill I rembered a quote from the recent best seller "Gone Girl"

[quote/]Men always say that as the defining compliment, don?t they? She?s a cool girl. Being the Cool Girl means I am a hot, brilliant, funny woman who adores football, poker, dirty jokes, and burping, who plays video games, drinks cheap beer, loves threesomes and anal sex, and jams hot dogs and hamburgers into her mouth like she?s hosting the world?s biggest culinary gang bang while somehow maintaining a size 2, because Cool Girls are above all hot. Hot and understanding. Cool Girls never get angry; they only smile in a chagrined, loving manner and let their men do whatever they want. Go ahead, shit on me, I don?t mind, I?m the Cool Girl.[/quote]

Vivian James is gamer gates cool girl....she is a sheild to say "see! see! not sexist! not sexist!"

mabye thats irrelevant but I wanted to point it out

 

[Cyberstrike_v1legacy]

OK since I don't have anything better to do.

I'm 36 years old and have been a console gamer since I was 8. I used to have a NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Genesis, Sega CD, Saturn, Dreamcast, Playstation 1, and Playstation 2 I sold all those consoles and most of the games for them (and a whole lot of guide books as well) a few months ago because I was broke and needed to buy food. I now only own an original Xbox, Xbox 360 and a PS3. I basically play BioWare and Bethesda RPGs, third-person action/adventure games and I've started to venture into sandbox games like Saints Row: The Third and Saints Row. I'm disabled with a rare nerve disorder, that is getting a little worse every year. I would try to explain it but everytime I've tried it comes worse than it currently it is or not as bad as it is. I consider myself a left wing liberal progressive and I have zero love for the American consevative movement because of the morons in the GOP trying to privative my social security and medicare. Not to mention how the right-wing hates people like me, because I was born with a disablity and can't work, drive a car, get married and have a family. I have been call a moocher and a parasite by the same assholes who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and run the whole damn country and then whine and ***** that they're victims.

Why I dislike #gamergate because I'm a "social justice warrior" to them and here is a fun fact for you: do you want to know how many minorities I know in my offline life? This will make you laugh: ZERO. I have no white, black, asian, latino, LGBT, Jewish, Muslims and women friends. I take that back I have one woman friend and she's my dad's girlfriend. I'm not a reglious/spritual person so I don't know if there is a God or not. I support those because it makes me like a worthwhile human being and not a taker, moocher, or parasite. I'm also sick of the damn conseratives ruining everything which is all #gamergate is the video game version of the Tea Party. They have no agenda other than to take "back" gaming from people who want more kinds of games than FPS.

I'm sorry for those SJW that got that person fired for starting that #notyourshield hashtag.

 

[EpicMike7]

I'm also sick of the damn conseratives ruining everything which is all #gamergate is the video game version of the Tea Party. They have no agenda other than to take "back" gaming from people who want more kinds of games than FPS.

I'm sorry for those SJW that got that person fired for starting that #notyourshield hashtag.

I can assure you that's not true, people representing GamerGate hold a variety of political views across the entire spectrum. Hell, I'm considered pretty left leaning and this is in Europe, I would be considered an Ultra-Liberal in the USA, about as far from the Tea Party as you can get.

 

[R0guy]

I have no white, black, asian, latino, LGBT, Jewish, Muslims and women friends.

I'm a minority and here's a hint:

We arn't Pokemons for you to collect. Neither do we suddenly appear to you like animals of the forest in a Disney cartoon, because you think you're being "nice" to us on the internet.

 

[Biran53]

I'm a 17 year old boy who grew up with the N64, playing the likes of Ocarina of a Time and Super Mario 64 probably around the age of 5 (I really sucked at games then).

Nowadays I would consider myself a Metroid/BioShock/Zelda enthusiast, and follower of several voices on this glorious website (Yahtzee, Jimothy, and Movie Bob predominantly).

Ahhh, Gamer Gate. I honestly shrugged it off in the very beginning, dismissing it like most did as a hive mind of bitter children just pouting. I must say I am pleased to have been proven (mostly) wrong in that unjustified assumption. Reasonable claims have been made, and I think I have a full picture of what Gamer Gate is.

I... Just can't say I support it, though. Because despite understanding, I simply don't agree with what many Game Gaters want. No matter how "corrupt" these circles of journalists are, I still think it is wrong to destroy their careers by denying the sites sponsors. That just sounds... childish to me. Say what you will about corrupt journalists, but now we should discuss how consumers allowed this situation to happen in the first place. The only reason these people have power is because they were given trust and a pedestal by the consumer. You created them, you can destroy them the same way. With your readership.

Now, can we just follow the Internet personalities we like and call it a night? Sure, let's have transparency, but everyone is getting so tired. I'm tired.

 

[Cyberstrike_v1legacy]

I have no white, black, asian, latino, LGBT, Jewish, Muslims and women friends.

I'm a minority and here's a hint:

We arn't Pokemons for you to collect. Neither do we suddenly appear to you like animals of the forest in a Disney cartoon, because you think you're being "nice" to us on the internet.

Did I say I collect them?
No.
Do I want a medal or a trophy?
No.
Do I want friends?
No.
Do I want to be remembered in history books?
No.
Am I always nice to them?
No.

What and why I do it is because I can do it. If you don't like it. that is your problem.

 

[GJHenry]

I'm a 17 year old boy who grew up with the N64, playing the likes of Ocarina of a Time and Super Mario 64 probably around the age of 5 (I really sucked at games then).

Nowadays I would consider myself a Metroid/BioShock/Zelda enthusiast, and follower of several voices on this glorious website (Yahtzee, Jimothy, and Movie Bob predominantly).

Ahhh, Gamer Gate. I honestly shrugged it off in the very beginning, dismissing it like most did as a hive mind of bitter children just pouting. I must say I am pleased to have been proven (mostly) wrong in that unjustified assumption. Reasonable claims have been made, and I think I have a full picture of what Gamer Gate is.

I... Just can't say I support it, though. Because despite understanding, I simply don't agree with what many Game Gaters want. No matter how "corrupt" these circles of journalists are, I still think it is wrong to destroy their careers by denying the sites sponsors. That just sounds... childish to me. Say what you will about corrupt journalists, but now we should discuss how consumers allowed this situation to happen in the first place. The only reason these people have power is because they were given trust and a pedestal by the consumer. You created them, you can destroy them the same way. With your readership.

Now, can we just follow the Internet personalities we like and call it a night? Sure, let's have transparency, but everyone is getting so tired. I'm tired.

Seeing that you're young, I would like to ask you a question. Did you have a job before? Have you heard about Pro-GGs getting fired because of their opinion? Destroying them through readership is ideal but wouldn't make a dent because there are still people that are misinformed. On Intel's point of view, it's just business. They would rather put their advertising finances elsewhere to a place that is not controversial. As a consumer, you must also understand that this is the voice of consumers and the reason why we are voicing it out is because the trust itself has been breached.

Talking about childish, have you seen some recent tweets against Intel [http://i.imgur.com/hv40dJS.jpg]?

 

[JohnFei]

Criticism is art. Now, imagine that there was an art form that you really loved. Imagine that a person, or group of people, suddenly felt threatened by your beloved art form. You listen to their arguments, and it quickly becomes clear that they don't really know anything about it. Imagine that they organized a campaign to destroy the art form that you love, based on these deep misunderstanding of what it does. You might want to fight back against that, right? But who am I kidding, it's not like gamers have any experience with that sort of thing...

Well said. Sadly I have found that this kind of critique flies right over their heads.

I admire the effort of op to try to get the two sides to find some common ground and establish dialog. But it's very unlikely when anti-GG's bottomline is that we are worse than ISIS.