A Dark Souls easy mode would require a fundamental change in level design.

[NeutralDrow]

You have a very low opinion of certain gamers if you think they can't work out how not to walk off a fucking cliff.

Have you played the game? You'll be surprised to find out how often it happens, the ledges you stand on can get really really narrow. Also, the game has you frequently fighting enemies while avoiding death falls all around. And in one level it does it in almost complete darkness where you can't see 2 feet in front of you.

The first time I cursed at the game was after I first started playing. I killed some zombies near the Burg bridge entrance and decided to backtrack to the bonfire. I walked to where the path was, only to discover that the path was narrower than expected and the camera was at too low an angle, and fell to my death. That was when I learned I had to swivel the camera whenever I crossed a corner (and finally learned how three hours after that, because even with a 360 controller the PC controls are ass).

In other words, this man speaks truth.

 

[DrunkenMonkey]

Interesting read, not going to lie. I believe fall numbers are done on percentage of your health bar, once it become big enough.

you could add a system where if your character steps of the edge, they'll do a near fall animation the first time to warn you off a lethal fall, but there is already a system to tell you if a fall is lethal, and that is the glowing rocks. Let's just say that an easy mode would require a separate game, I shall name it "Light Souls"

 

[sanquin]

All I can say about the easy mode argument over dark souls is, it shouldn't be implemented because it's not part of the style of the game. Same with Dragon's Dogma. Not having difficulty settings was part of what made the game what it was. Adding easy mode to such games detracts from the original concept. A game isn't just about the gameplay, story and graphics. A game is about every aspect of it, including the difficulty settings if any. If you change any one thing too drastically, it just isn't the same game any more.

 

[Joccaren]

Yeah no.....
Its easy to fall to your death in a lot of games. Difficulty levels don't change this. If you're stupid enough to walk off those ledges you've shown, its not because the game is too hard - its because you absolutely fail at gaming.
Even that item that you need to jump for isn't that big a deal. Fail to get it a few times? So long as its not necessary to completing the game just skip it and move on.
Now, I see people complaining about other levels where its really dark and you've got to traverse that, or the ledge is especially thin. Its still not that difficult, though it does present a far more substantial challenge. The only time that such things should be ridiculously difficult is when the controls are ass - which isn't a difficulty problem, its a problem with the game mechanically that goes beyond just being there for immersion, but simply due to bad design - for example me telling you to play Pacman but I've programmed it so you can only move up and left [Exaggeration, but you get my point].
There are also people stating that you have to fight enemies near these ledges, and really there's an easy method to this too: Less knockback from enemies and fewer enemies in that area. Doesn't destroy your chances of falling off, but it doesn't need to - it reduces them sufficiently that you should be fine.

 

[SlaveNumber23]

Umm, honestly walking off a cliff and being brutally murdered by gravity is the least of your worries in Dark Souls and is not what makes the game difficult. I mean come on, Mario games have ledges which instant kill you if you fall off them as a core gameplay aspect and Mario games are about as beginner friendly as you get. I think I've fallen to my death maybe once in Dark Souls, there a large number of ways you could make the game easier without putting barriers on the ledges to stop you falling off.

Darks Souls isn't hard because you can walk off cliff. It's hard because enemies deal tons of damage.

Well there you go, stop the enemies from buying Trinity Force and there you have your easy mode.

 

[sXeth]

Yeah, I think the only one of those cliffs I went over was the jumping one cause the game was a tad unclear on how to jump. And that's for an entirely optional non-unique item anyways.

Most people are gonna fall at the archers in Anor Londo (Where you have to abandon your newly learned slow pace and charge pell mell at them to avoid it), or in TotG with the silly darkness gimmick (I say this because tons of the game is in what should be equally dark areas, but you're still able to see fine. Its clear they ran out of ideas and just dropped that in on that level to try and keep a difficulty curve that started falling apart in the third act).

 

[Rack]

If you're going to make a point about how Dark Souls is difficult because of the level design then why not Crystal Caves as an example? Trying not to fall off the invisible walkways is a tad harder than just walking up a path. Between that, Sens Fortress and the Tomb of Giants you'd actually have a point, those levels would represent massive difficulty spikes if the player had double health and innate poison/curse resistance (otherwise pretty much the only thing an "easy mode" would need.

 

[LostAlone]

Funny thing is that Dark Souls has become a bit of a victim of its own success. There's a LOT of gamers out there (me included) who have heard that Dark Souls is extremely challenging and want to take a shot at completing that challenge. Problem is that it was designed for people who are either genuinely masochistic or are gaming-savants, which means if you aren't one of those people then it doesn't feel like a challenge; it just feels unfun.

From my point of view, I'd like to see an easy (or at least easier) mode for it. I get that they are all about the hardcore of the hardcore, but games that don't even really give you a chance to learn and improve aren't enjoyable. When you essentially have to go out and buy other similar games and master them on the hardest settings to have a chance to even really 'play' Dark Souls, then you're doing something wrong.

Every game has difficulty settings these days, and its not because games are getting easier or less awesome or anything. It's so that me, PC gamer since I was 10 years old, and my non-gamer house-mate can play the same games. And since my non-gamer house-mate enjoyed playing the game because it was accessible to him, he eventually jacks up the difficulty because he wants more challenge, and eventually he can kick my ass. What I'm saying is that difficulty levels are a good thing. They just are. Some of the best games ever made have difficulty levels.

It's fine to make a hardcore, tough, merciless game. You call that difficulty level 'Normal', and you add the description 'How it's meant to be played'. Then you make 'rookie mode'. And then more people play your game the way you intended it because they had a chance to get good at dodging and manoeuvring and fighting effectively instead of just dying.

Essentially the toughest difficulty in all games is balls hard. Sometimes the designers cheat to make it more challenging than the original mechanics would let it be. For those who master the hardest difficulty, then there's communities of people who come up with progressively more insane ways to play the game (no saves, no upgraded anything, 1 life). Seldom is there ever a problem with games just being 'too easy'. You can always find ways to make your experience more challenging. What you can't do is make a game easier after the fact.

People who think that their shouldn't be an easy mode in games are people who hate fun. And people who forget that when they were younger, they started playing games on easy too, because they had to learn somewhere.

Also, Christmas cookies are available for anyone who can, without googling, tell me in order the difficulty levels of Doom, Blood and Duke 3D.

 

[Shuguard]

I think it is up to the developers to decide whether or not an easy mode should be released. The devs released dark souls without an easy mode for a good reason(and they never planned to, the whole article about dropping the difficulty was a mistranslation). I think adding an easy mode would take away the effect that it has on players. If it had an easy mode you would never have the fear of messing up and dying. You wouldn't feel that sense of achievement/accomplishment from beating some bosses that have beaten you up over and over again. Eventually the game would be tossed into the bin next to all the other triple A games because you could go through it easily and the devs didn't want that.

Dark Souls is catered towards the hardcore crowd, if you are not "hardcore" this game is not for you. You wouldn't watch a movie about politics if you hate governments or politics, nor would you buy a science fiction novel if you only like fantasy. I know dark souls got a lot bigger and successful by petitions, but taking the difficulty out of dark souls is taking the core mechanic out of the game.

Heck I walked into dark souls not knowing how hard it was, but I stuck with it and it felt so good to win. So good I went back for New Game+ which is most likely considered hard mode. it didn't matter how much I struggled at times, I had a lot of fun with it.

 

[sanquin]

op·tion·al [op-shuh-nl]
adjective
1.
left to one's choice; not required or mandatory: Formal dress is optional.
2.
leaving something to choice.

That's right, it'd be a game with more options, a better one.

Going from no difficulty settings to being able to set it to easy mode is still a large change for the overall game. Like you said, it would be a game with more options. Options that weren't intended. It's like a mod for skyrim that gives you weapons that do 2x more damage than standard weapons and have 100 magic damage on it. It makes things easier than intended. So it doesn't make the game better, but worse. All it does is making the game appeal to people that don't want a real challenge.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

All I can say about the easy mode argument over dark souls is, it shouldn't be implemented because it's not part of the style of the game. Same with Dragon's Dogma. Not having difficulty settings was part of what made the game what it was. Adding easy mode to such games detracts from the original concept. A game isn't just about the gameplay, story and graphics. A game is about every aspect of it, including the difficulty settings if any. If you change any one thing too drastically, it just isn't the same game any more.

But can't you let other players decide by themself if they want to expirience the intended way or the easy way? You've no right to dictate how other players should play their game.
And specially as long as the easy mode does not interfere with the normal mode of the other players.

Let them play what they want and you can play what you want.

This intolerance, shown in such a simple secondary activity as gaming, is the reason for alot of problems we have in our world.
If we can't even get it done right in our hobbies, where nobody gets hurt, we'll never fix the bigger problems.

Seriously, i can't understand this stubborness towards the easy mode.
There's a simple check list: [ ] Does the change interfere with my gaming expirience.
If there's no check in the box: STOP GIVING A FLYING FUCK ABOUT IT.

 

[sanquin]

But can't you let other players decide by themself if they want to expirience the intended way or the easy way? You've no right to dictate how other players should play their game.
And specially as long as the easy mode does not interfere with the normal mode of the other players.

Let them play what they want and you can play what you want.

This intolerance, shown in such a simple secondary activity as gaming, is the reason for alot of problems we have in our world.
If we can't even get it done right in our hobbies, where nobody gets hurt, we'll never fix the bigger problems.

Seriously, i can't understand this stubborness towards the easy mode.
There's a simple check list: [ ] Does the change interfere with my gaming expirience.
If there's no check in the box: STOP GIVING A FLYING FUCK ABOUT IT.

But it does affect the experience. Even if subconsciously. Don't get me wrong, I'm not screaming 'The company shouldn't add this easy mode to the game!' They can add it if they want. It's their game. I'm saying 'I'm against it.' Heck, I'm one of those people that didn't play/buy the game (apart from an hour or so at a friend's) because the difficulty wasn't for me. But that doesn't mean I want it changed to suit my needs.

 

[Azahul]

Guys, I've played Dark Souls and finished it and I don't consider myself a particularly hardcore gamer. Honestly, I don't even think Dark Souls is that hard, it's a game that if you master your timing you can basically go through it at level 1 and beat every boss (eventually). Hell, to make an "easy mode", I wouldn't just reduce the amount of damage enemies do, I'd say you'd have to slow down their attack speeds and give the players more time to dodge or block. I don't really care about the prospect of an Easy Mode, but I'd say that anyone that hasn't played the game because they hear it's uber difficult should definitely try it to see what the fuss is about before they ask for one. Because the game's difficulty is not in the individual enemies or the amount of damage they do. The difficulty of the game comes from many, many factors, and the fact is that the majority of basic enemies you'll encounter between Bonfires aren't difficult to beat by any game's standards.

However, the OP's point is perfectly valid. Yes, it's easy to scoff at his examples, because the cliffs he points out will only claim your lives a few times if you're unlucky. But there are areas in the game where the difficulty is the environment. The Crystal Caves leaps to mind. You can get through to the boss fighting a bare handful of enemies (and of the foes you do fight, many don't even respawn), but I still died more times than I care to remember because of the invisible walkways. The Tomb of the Giants is sort of the same unless you picked up something that can light your way (by that point I'd nabbed one of those glowing larvae helmets and had zero problems with visibility), and there are a lot of regions like that. New Londo, for example, is full of ghosts that can only be hit when you're Cursed, can come out of the walls and ground and roof and hit you from any direction, and do all of this in areas where you're frequently on a narrow edge and easy to knock over. In Anor Londo, the bit where you charge the knight archers will kill you time and again without you ever taking a single spot of damage, because they can just knock you off the ledge. Sen's Fortress does the same with many of its traps. The list goes on.

The thing I think the OP is getting at is that an "Easy mode" for Dark Souls would require an enormous overhaul of every design aspect of the game. Otherwise, the easy mode turns the game into a very harsh environment populated by gimped monsters. And for a game that, frankly, if I beat most people interested in the title should be able to beat without much trouble, that doesn't sound too attractive.

 

[barbzilla]

Once again, the only objections I have seen to an easy mode (except for Rooster's Objection in my thread) have been;

1: They would have to change the entire game around to make an easy mode.
No they would not, nowhere does it say this. I haven't seen a single person asking for a casual stroll through the game mode, where the only challenge you receive is installing the game. Everyone advocating an easy mode, just wants to be able to survive a bit longer so they can have a chance to figure out the enemy's attack patterns.

2: It would diminish my experience, because then everyone would be able to complete it.
Who the hell cares. The game is made to sell, they don't care about an individual's achievements. They only care about the experience the game carries over. If you need a video game to validate yourself in life, you need to consider stepping up your game outside of games.

3: I don't want an easy mode because I don't have enough self control not to choose it (I.E. Easy mode is a tactical advantage that people would be stupid not to choose).
Once again, who cares. If you don't have the will power to complete a game you could otherwise complete, without choosing an easier route, why is it anyone else's problem but your own?

4: Artistic integrity.
This one I do care about, but if From decides it is within their artistic scope to add an easy mode, I am quite okay with it. So this one isn't for the fans to decide, but the artists themselves.


I honestly don't have a problem with them adding an easy mode, or a hard mode for that matter. I was quite capable of completing the game on the default settings (through to NG+++++ (when I got bored), and would love a hard mode to be added. I don't have a problem with them adding an easy mode either, especially if it means more money for From to develop Dark Souls 2.

At the same time, I see the futility of this argument. The people on each side of the fence have torn the fence down and built a brick wall 200' high. There isn't going to be any(many?) compromises between the two, and if there is(are) it doesn't matter as From has said "No easy mode".

In short, pbbbt and Merry Christmas (Happy Holidays) to all my fellow escapists.

 

[barbzilla]

Guys, I've played Dark Souls and finished it and I don't consider myself a particularly hardcore gamer. Honestly, I don't even think Dark Souls is that hard, it's a game that if you master your timing you can basically go through it at level 1 and beat every boss (eventually). Hell, to make an "easy mode", I wouldn't just reduce the amount of damage enemies do, I'd say you'd have to slow down their attack speeds and give the players more time to dodge or block. I don't really care about the prospect of an Easy Mode, but I'd say that anyone that hasn't played the game because they hear it's uber difficult should definitely try it to see what the fuss is about before they ask for one. Because the game's difficulty is not in the individual enemies or the amount of damage they do. The difficulty of the game comes from many, many factors, and the fact is that the majority of basic enemies you'll encounter between Bonfires aren't difficult to beat by any game's standards.

However, the OP's point is perfectly valid. Yes, it's easy to scoff at his examples, because the cliffs he points out will only claim your lives a few times if you're unlucky. But there are areas in the game where the difficulty is the environment. The Crystal Caves leaps to mind. You can get through to the boss fighting a bare handful of enemies (and of the foes you do fight, many don't even respawn), but I still died more times than I care to remember because of the invisible walkways. The Tomb of the Giants is sort of the same unless you picked up something that can light your way (by that point I'd nabbed one of those glowing larvae helmets and had zero problems with visibility), and there are a lot of regions like that. New Londo, for example, is full of ghosts that can only be hit when you're Cursed, can come out of the walls and ground and roof and hit you from any direction, and do all of this in areas where you're frequently on a narrow edge and easy to knock over. In Anor Londo, the bit where you charge the knight archers will kill you time and again without you ever taking a single spot of damage, because they can just knock you off the ledge. Sen's Fortress does the same with many of its traps. The list goes on.

The thing I think the OP is getting at is that an "Easy mode" for Dark Souls would require an enormous overhaul of every design aspect of the game. Otherwise, the easy mode turns the game into a very harsh environment populated by gimped monsters. And for a game that, frankly, if I beat most people interested in the title should be able to beat without much trouble, that doesn't sound too attractive.

This all comes down to perspective. To many people (80 year old gaming friend for example) are unable to even get to said areas due to the monsters speed and damage. If they did something as small as add an extra 50% to all armor values for easy mode, they would be able to compete on at least some levels. Same thing with the multiplayer issue, many of the gamers crying for an easy mode don't have any interest in the competitive PVP environment. So, what these players are asking for is an easier game with less features. I honestly don't see the problem with that. I understand that certain people think it would ruin the game for these people, but I disagree. I happen to think that the game is a beautiful example of level design, and I've asked everyone on my team for my upcoming kickstarter play through the game a few times to get an idea of what I mean when I say level flow. I also think that From did a great job with the Lore. The lore is varied and interesting, as well as difficult to find and follow if you miss certain parts. This only adds to the replayability though. The options and styles are great. The way they varied the attacks of different weapons is also astounding. Everything about this game screams well designed... except for accessibility.

At the same time, I don't think that every game should be inherently accessible to every player on the planet. It would make for a rather boring gaming world. I do feel that it is ultimately up to the developer to make that decision, and they shouldn't be harassed by players about it. If a dev fails to deliver on its promises, fine *****, moan, and complain all you want. I will stand behind you 100%. But, leave the devs to decide what is appropriate for them when it comes to their IP.

 

[Peithelo]

But can't you let other players decide by themself if they want to expirience the intended way or the easy way? You've no right to dictate how other players should play their game.

I consider Dark Souls to be an honest work of art rather than a piece of purposeful entertainment that is produced to be appreciated by certain people. Demon's Souls even more so. They were created out of sheer willingness to create something and they then continued to create their own audience. An audience that does incidentally appreciate Demon's Souls and Dark Souls for what they are. This audience or anyone outside of it has in my opinion no right to demand anything from the creators. Certainly not to alter their own creations because they didn't happen to be to their liking, unless its about some clearly abhorrent content in the product.

Actual art creates audiences, purposeful products express themselves to audiences. Either way you should understand that the player does indeed have right to choose what creations they want to support by purchasing them, but the creators have no responsibility to consequently alter their already existing products to be more like what people would like them to be. There are many ways you can find out if a creative work is suitable for you specifically, and I would argue that it is the consumers responsibility to do so before making any purchases.

In fact it is ironical that you are the one demanding things while I am merely defending the form Dark Souls was designed to have. I would do so with practically any other game, even if I personally didn't like them myself. This would not prevent me from giving critique however, to which everyone has the right as well. The only one dictating anything are the creators of any work themselves, namely the form of their creations, and I can't be angry about that when these creative people give us the unique chance to actually experience what they have created. They share their creations willingly.

 

[cookyt]

The people ridiculing those who fall off ledges make me very sad to think that I've died more due to ledges than to enemies (even including bosses). It's not as impossible to fall off a ledge as one might think. Also, to answer the question as to why I fall off so often: for the loot!

Why is everybody so hostile to the idea? He makes a valid point: fall damage and instant kill falls are a vital part of the game, and one of the reasons it's so difficult. At this point, the best thing to do is think of ways to make this aspect of the game less harsh for people playing on easy mode.

This guy has the right attitude:

Interesting read, not going to lie. I believe fall numbers are done on percentage of your health bar, once it become big enough.

you could add a system where if your character steps of the edge, they'll do a near fall animation the first time to warn you off a lethal fall, but there is already a system to tell you if a fall is lethal, and that is the glowing rocks. Let's just say that an easy mode would require a separate game, I shall name it "Light Souls"

Maybe an item that prevents you from falling off a ledge once (like the ring of sacrifice) by knocking you back towards solid ground. This item would only appear in easy mode.

 

[Leaper]

Put collision/blocking volumes/invisible walls along those edges on easy mode.

Problem solved?

 

[DrunkenMonkey]

The people ridiculing those who fall off ledges make me very sad to think that I've died more due to ledges than to enemies (even including bosses). It's not as impossible to fall off a ledge as one might think. Also, to answer the question as to why I fall off so often: for the loot!

Why is everybody so hostile to the idea? He makes a valid point: fall damage and instant kill falls are a vital part of the game, and one of the reasons it's so difficult. At this point, the best thing to do is think of ways to make this aspect of the game less harsh for people playing on easy mode.

This guy has the right attitude:

Interesting read, not going to lie. I believe fall numbers are done on percentage of your health bar, once it become big enough.

you could add a system where if your character steps of the edge, they'll do a near fall animation the first time to warn you off a lethal fall, but there is already a system to tell you if a fall is lethal, and that is the glowing rocks. Let's just say that an easy mode would require a separate game, I shall name it "Light Souls"

Maybe an item that prevents you from falling off a ledge once (like the ring of sacrifice) by knocking you back towards solid ground. This item would only appear in easy mode.

Call it the "Ring of the Fallen" and you're set lol

 

[DementedSheep]

But can't you let other players decide by themself if they want to expirience the intended way or the easy way? You've no right to dictate how other players should play their game.

I consider Dark Souls to be an honest work of art rather than a piece of purposeful entertainment that is produced to be appreciated by certain people. Demon's Souls even more so. They were created out of sheer willingness to create something and they then continued to create their own audience. An audience that does incidentally appreciate Demon's Souls and Dark Souls for what they are. This audience or anyone outside of it has in my opinion no right to demand anything from the creators. Certainly not to alter their own creations because they didn't happen to be to their liking, unless its about some clearly abhorrent content in the product.

Actual art creates audiences, purposeful products express themselves to audiences. Either way you should understand that the player does indeed have right to choose what creations they want to support by purchasing them, but the creators have no responsibility to consequently alter their already existing products to be more like what people would like them to be. There are many ways you can find out if a creative work is suitable for you specifically, and I would argue that it is the consumers responsibility to do so before making any purchases.

In fact it is ironical that you are the one demanding things while I am merely defending the form Dark Souls was designed to have. I would do so with practically any other game, even if I personally didn't like them myself. This would not prevent me from giving critique however, to which everyone has the right as well. The only one dictating anything are the creators of any work themselves, namely the form of their creations, and I can't be angry about that when these creative people give us the unique chance to actually experience what they have created. They share their creations willingly.

I have yet to see anyone actually demand an easy mode. Request or state that they would think it would be good idea sure and there is nothing wrong with making a request that developers are free to take on board or ignore. The only people I've seen actually getting up in arms about this and doing the usual "raghhh I'll never support you again if you do this!!" BS are the ones against the idea the they might decide of their own free will to put an optional easy mode in the game.