A DRM

[Agayek]

An armed insurrection with what, exactly?

The Howard regime took (well compulsorily purchased) most of our guns.


Besides... Effort? Bleh!

You could use Harsh Language. That's a very effective weapon I'm told. Or you could start an internet petition. Those always work.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Here's the perfect way: USE STEAM! In fact, there should be a law: All PC games must be sold through Steam. Fixed and done.

Steam games are all pirated just as easily as a boxed game. I don't know why people seem to think its effective at stopping piracy... Most Steam games are ripped the day they are released, a new EXE is created to launch the game independent from Steam, and viola. Some haven't been cracked yet (namely Assassin's Creed 2) but that's due to the games seperate DRM that is also used on the boxed version and has nothing to do with Steam. Steam isn't effective at all at stopping piracy but that isn't the purpose of its existence anyway.

 

[Dys]

Obviously, some form of DRM has to be used - to suggest otherwise is insanity.

Why? What makes a game with DRM that's cracked before release any better than a game without DRM?

Because releasing something without making sure most people have to pay you in order to get it is insane.

It'd be like leaving doors to your Ferrai unlocked, keys sitting in the ignition, leaving on vacation, and then not expecting someone to take it.


Also, you execute tighter controls on the release, possibly making it so that physical copies are not distributed until after the digital version is released in order to cut down on the time hackers have to get at it.


Combine this with the stigma of "Hey, were giving you a lot for only $40 and 10 minutes of your time" so that pirates don't look like liberators, but rahter asses.

Actually, it would be more like releasing a game without drm, but looking at past examples where it's worked flawlessly would be silly, now wouldn't it...

To roll with the exotic car example, I'll mention that Ferraris are rarely stolen, yet lack the over the top anti-theft mechanisms seen partnered with the Ford GT (it notably wouldn't let Jeremy Clarkson drive his when he owned it). I know that it's a bit of an abstract comparison, because theft is a completely different crime to breach of copyright and/or intellectual theft, but the fact remains that over the top security measures serve only to harm the legit consumer and ultimately not those who are cheating the system.

 

[Agayek]

Steam games are all pirated just as easily as a boxed game. I don't know why people seem to think its effective at stopping piracy... Most Steam games are ripped the day they are released, a new EXE is created to launch the game independent from Steam, and viola. Some haven't been cracked yet (namely Assassin's Creed 2) but that's due to the games seperate DRM that is also used on the boxed version and has nothing to do with Steam. Steam isn't effective at all at stopping piracy but that isn't the purpose of its existence anyway.

Technically, Steam is a DRM platform (online activation and an online check every time you launch the game), but stopping piracy is not really the focus. To paraphrase Gabe Newell, it's more about offering a service to the customer (like the overlay, friends lists, and all the other nifty goodies) more than trying to stop pirates.


Good argument about the DRM issue from one of the top game designers out there.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Steam games are all pirated just as easily as a boxed game. I don't know why people seem to think its effective at stopping piracy... Most Steam games are ripped the day they are released, a new EXE is created to launch the game independent from Steam, and viola. Some haven't been cracked yet (namely Assassin's Creed 2) but that's due to the games seperate DRM that is also used on the boxed version and has nothing to do with Steam. Steam isn't effective at all at stopping piracy but that isn't the purpose of its existence anyway.

Technically, Steam is a DRM platform (online activation and an online check every time you launch the game), but stopping piracy is not really the focus. To paraphrase Gabe Newell, it's more about offering a service to the customer (like the overlay, friends lists, and all the other nifty goodies) more than trying to stop pirates.


Good argument about the DRM issue from one of the top game designers out there.

Great video and he makes a lot of good points. <3 Gabe!

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I paid $60.00 for that game, I should be able to play it whenever I want. Not just when I have an internet connection. By doing that, it is more of a rental than actually owning the product.

Well, not exactly, no. If you pay for a game you're agreeing to conditions the publisher puts forward to play it. Don't agree? Don't buy it.

Of course, that would be a LOT easier to do if they clearly marked game boxes with a clear indications of what those requirements are. In several countries EULA's are considered unenforcable because you don't get to read them pre-purchase. Last time I saw someone put forward the idea of clear labelling of DRM the publishers went "OH NOES! People will not want to buy our fun making programs!" to which I say COGNITIVE FUCKING DISCONNECT if they can't get that that's the point. Why the fear of informed consumers?


Oh yeah, and from the publisher's POV you ARE renting the game... well, it's a bit more complicated but closer to renting than ownership. Essentially you're paying money for a limited access agreement.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

You could use Harsh Language. That's a very effective weapon I'm told.

Great, in the future students will be able to learn about the ShitFuck Rebellion and it's root causes.

 

[brunothepig]

It wouldn't be so much a "crack" as a "Have to construct the ability to save the game from scratch". Without the download, the game wouldn't even know what a save is, much less have anything to crack. Even if you bypassed the check for the levels, you'd still be unable to save the game or use the MP.

And even they do crack it, it meant as a deterrent and stigma measure, not as a stop. For all that work, they could've just paid, enjoyed the game and gotten on with it.

You know, I see this opinion a lot. It bewilders me. You do realise that just one person has to break this system? And the people that do this do it for fun? They do it for a challenge, they're usually quite good, so they're up to the challenge. After this one guy/gal breaks the system, yanyone can download the game.

Snip

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Right, there's really nothing more to add, but what? All PC gamers are bad people because some people pirate the games? Honestly? So, all Germans are bad people because some of them killed Jews? (And others, I know) All British are bad people because they killed Aboriginals? So, really, so are all Australians? All Spanish are bad people because they killed a fair few tribes, like the Aztecs? Pretty much everyone, if you want to include the small scale stuff. Yeah, you see why your arguments fail. Whether pirates are bad people or not, I'm undecided. But I won't bother debating that, since you seem to have already decided that, pirate or not, I'm a bad person for preferring a mouse and keyboard control scheme.

 

[Altorin]

Steam games are all pirated just as easily as a boxed game. I don't know why people seem to think its effective at stopping piracy... Most Steam games are ripped the day they are released, a new EXE is created to launch the game independent from Steam, and viola. Some haven't been cracked yet (namely Assassin's Creed 2) but that's due to the games seperate DRM that is also used on the boxed version and has nothing to do with Steam. Steam isn't effective at all at stopping piracy but that isn't the purpose of its existence anyway.

Technically, Steam is a DRM platform (online activation and an online check every time you launch the game), but stopping piracy is not really the focus. To paraphrase Gabe Newell, it's more about offering a service to the customer (like the overlay, friends lists, and all the other nifty goodies) more than trying to stop pirates.


Good argument about the DRM issue from one of the top game designers out there.

Offtopic (sorry, I've done the DRM discussion to DEATH and this seems much more interesting ATM), but what really got me interested in that video (he's right about everything he said btw, about DRM and the works), is the last bit, where he talks about buying games in advance, or privately funding a game development and "I own a piece of this game going forward"..

Is he saying that we'd make our money back? In his eyes at least, is that how anyone else heard it? you fund the game, you get your money back and the game?

Even if not, even if it was just buying a game in advance directly from the developer (rather then pre-ordering it from a retail store), not getting your money reimbursed, I would probably do that, and be comfortable doing it, with established development teams.

I would buy Diablo 3 right now, if my money would help directly make it get done better and faster.

Would anyone else buy their games directly from the developer months or years before it's release (granted of course that you're reimbursed if a game goes into the ether?)

What if you could privately invest in a game and make money yourself that way? Like, say I paid Blizzard 300 dollars to make Diablo 3, and when the game is released, I get my 300 dollars back, plus benefits if the game sells well? maybe not get the game, but just privately fund the development of a single game.

As of right now, you can invest in a company, but shares in a company are expensive, and maybe it would be nice to have the option to invest in only a specific project.. something you love already and just want them to have all of the resources to do it the best they can.

Thanks for the thought food Gabe. I'll be chewing on this for a while.. I heard something like it a few years back, but it's in my head right now.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Technically, Steam is a DRM platform (online activation and an online check every time you launch the game), but stopping piracy is not really the focus.

Not anymore, anyway. Before it took off with it's other functions it certainly looked and acted like a primarily DRM platform.

Regardless of it's origins, though, it's become the proof that you can use digital distribution in an open network and.. ::gasp:: not be reduced to penuary.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I'm a bad person for preferring a mouse and keyboard control scheme.

I just hope your poor mother never finds out.

 

[Bat Vader]

I paid $60.00 for that game, I should be able to play it whenever I want. Not just when I have an internet connection. By doing that, it is more of a rental than actually owning the product.

Well, not exactly, no. If you pay for a game you're agreeing to conditions the publisher puts forward to play it. Don't agree? Don't buy it.

Of course, that would be a LOT easier to do if they clearly marked game boxes with a clear indications of what those requirements are. In several countries EULA's are considered unenforcable because you don't get to read them pre-purchase. Last time I saw someone put forward the idea of clear labelling of DRM the publishers went "OH NOES! People will not want to buy our fun making programs!" to which I say COGNITIVE FUCKING DISCONNECT if they can't get that that's the point. Why the fear of informed consumers?


Oh yeah, and from the publisher's POV you ARE renting the game... well, it's a bit more complicated but closer to renting than ownership. Essentially you're paying money for a limited access agreement.

The thing that irks me is that it requires an internet connection to play.

Ubisoft needs to come up with a better DRM that also lets people play the single player and save the game without having to have an internet connection.

I really hope Ubisoft puts in big bold lettering on the front and back of the box that it requires an internet connection to play. That way people will know what they are buying.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

where he talks about buying games in advance, or privately funding a game development and "I own a piece of this game going forward"..

Is he saying that we'd make our money back? In his eyes at least, is that how anyone else heard it? you fund the game, you get your money back and the game?

No, he's saying it's all a concept he's interested in exploring further and finding out what it would result in.

Naturally most people would want something in return... but they'd have to go over what people would want and what would be viable. Not to mention legal implications and what would happen if a community investment project collapsed.

There's a bit of this sort of thing being experimented with in the music biz but most artists have found, even popular artists, that you'll get one investor for about every 30 or so people who'll say they'll invest, regardless of what rewards investment gives.

 

[Agayek]

-snip-

I would definitely do so. Matter of fact, I've already done so. The team behind the game "Natural Selection 2", the sequel to the rather popular HL1 mod (this time a standalone game, with their own custom engine), does this in fact. They have preorders up, and purchasing gives access to the alpha and beta once it's released, and all sorts of goodies like that. Would be nice if more studios started following such a model.

 

[Bat Vader]

where he talks about buying games in advance, or privately funding a game development and "I own a piece of this game going forward"..

Is he saying that we'd make our money back? In his eyes at least, is that how anyone else heard it? you fund the game, you get your money back and the game?

No, he's saying it's all a concept he's interested in exploring further and finding out what it would result in.

Naturally most people would want something in return... but they'd have to go over what people would want and what would be viable. Not to mention legal implications and what would happen if a community investment project collapsed.

There's a bit of this sort of thing being experimented with in the music biz but most artists have found, even popular artists, that you'll get one investor for about every 30 or so people who'll say they'll invest, regardless of what rewards investment gives.

It is an intriguing idea. I would invest for an advanced copy of Star Wars: The Old Republic.

But, if the game was to get canceled I would like to have my money back that I put forth in investing. Also, if someone invested into a game being produced wouldn't they also be entitled to the money the developer makes for that certain game?

 

[Agayek]

It is an intriguing idea. I would invest for an advanced copy of Star Wars: The Old Republic.

But, if the game was to get canceled I would like to have my money back that I put forth in investing. Also, if someone invested into a game being produced wouldn't they also be entitled to the money the developer makes for that certain game?

Depends on the terms of the investment.

If the project went belly-up, you almost certainly would not be getting your money back (or at the least it would be a very small percentage of what you put in, that's one of the risks of investing).

If the project completed and sold relatively well, you might get some return on your initial investment, but it's more likely you'd just get a copy of the game and leave it at that. Most of the models I've seen for similar funding situations do not have any returns towards investors.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Also, if someone invested into a game being produced wouldn't they also be entitled to the money the developer makes for that certain game?

Not if that isn't part of the investment agreement. You're entitled to what the agreement says you're entitled to. Don't like the deal? Don't invest.

 

[ThePreshFrince]

Just play games with DRM on consoles, and the rest on PC. It works.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Just play games with DRM on consoles, and the rest on PC. It works.

It might work if you like console gaming.

 

[ThePreshFrince]

Just play games with DRM on consoles, and the rest on PC. It works.

It might work if you like console gaming.

Why would you play AC 2 on the PC anyway? It's crappy to play with a keyboard. So you buy an Xbox 360 controller. Boom, basically playing it on an Xbox.