A few thoughts about January 6, 2021

tstorm823

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When setting up a commission its kinda important not to let the guilty judge themselves. People who voted to object to Biden's election win have no place on such a commission because they are responsible for causing the whole mess.
A) Your being anachronistic and illogical. The vote to object didn't cause the riot, that's not the order of events. And people disrupting the opportunity to object are in conflict with those trying to object. Jim Jordan had no opportunity to reasonably object to the election on January 6th because the rioters made are debate moot. The only way that logic lands is by lumping together everyone who disliked or doubted the results of the election, but in that case...
B) You could stand to lay some of the blame on the party that spent 4 years declaring the previous election invalid and encouraging riots in major cities, who supported pounding on the doors to the Supreme Court in opposition to a judicial appointment or setting buildings on fire outside the White House.

If you don't want the guilty to judge themselves, you can't have this commission at all.
 

Hades

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A) Your being anachronistic and illogical. The vote to object didn't cause the riot, that's not the order of events. And people disrupting the opportunity to object are in conflict with those trying to object. Jim Jordan had no opportunity to reasonably object to the election on January 6th because the rioters made are debate moot. The only way that logic lands is by lumping together everyone who disliked or doubted the results of the election, but in that case...
B) You could stand to lay some of the blame on the party that spent 4 years declaring the previous election invalid and encouraging riots in major cities, who supported pounding on the doors to the Supreme Court in opposition to a judicial appointment or setting buildings on fire outside the White House.

If you don't want the guilty to judge themselves, you can't have this commission at all.
A: You can't really separate the two. Those that refused to certify the election did so based on the conspiracy theories that the election was ''stolen''. And rather than being victims of the con they were often very active participants in spreading it.
B: Apples and Oranges. No one but the most fringe democrats said the 2016 election was invalid. The problems with how Trump was thought to have won. No one disputed that he won the election, and that he should retroactively be replaced by Clinton. Even if Russiagate had killed Trump he'd have been replaced by Pence rather than Clinton being crowned over it.
 
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tstorm823

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A: You can't really separate the two. Those that refused to certify the election did so based on the conspiracy theories that the election was ''stolen''. And rather than being victims of the con they were often very active participants in spreading it.
B: Apples and Oranges. No one but the most fringe democrats said the 2016 election was invalid. The problems with how Trump was thought to have won. No one disputed that he won the election, and that he should retroactively be replaced by Clinton. Even if Russiagate had killed Trump he'd have been replaced by Pence rather than Clinton being crowned over it.
Nearly 5,000,000 people signed a petition to have Clinton crowned.
Clinton called Trump an illegitimate president. She also said though there isn't a mechanism for undoing the 2016 election, she would be for it.
This is not apples to oranges. This is 100% apples to apples. Honestly, if anything, no one but the least fringe Democrats were saying that. The fringe don't particularly care for Clinton to try and appoint her to extra power anyway. It was exclusively the most mainstream Democrats pushing this nonsense.
On January 6th 2017, Democrats objected to the election the same as Republicans. They got a little less traction because Democratic senators wouldn't sign on to the objections, but that's largely because most of them refused to attend the certification, all but 4 Democratic Senators declined to attend. Talk about refusing to certify.
 

Agema

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They voted against the "bipartisan commission" in part because they deemed it a waste of time, but also in part because it was designed in a way as to not allow Republicans to pick their own representatives. They didn't agree to that commission because the rules of it allowed Pelosi to do exactly this anyway. He would have had 0 "muppets of his choice", as Pelosi was pre-emptively flaunting her authority and courting all the anti-Trump Republicans.
No. This is all just trying to make sure no-one ever seriously looks at the Jan 6th Capitol event.

He nixxed the independent commission because it might say things they didn't want said. So the Democrats try to set up a Congressional commission, and he sends in a few chucklefucks. Their role would be to turn this Congressional committee into a circus: to digress, disrupt, leak, make stupid and unnecessary witness demands and claims. The Democrats are thereby forced to either reject them or have the commission derailed, and rejection of course gives McCarthy the excuse to pull all the Republicans from it and wreck it anyway.

There's two things going on here. Firstly, the Republicans want to bury the Capitol riot in public attention because it makes them (and particularly Trump) look bad by reminding everyone Trump-supporting Republican voters trashed a major government building. Secondly, they definitely don't want anyone seriously and deeply looking at it, because it will come to conclusions that will make them (and particularly Trump) look bad. Thus what all their efforts are bent at - obstructing any discussion or investigation.

If they regain control of the legislature, they might of course do a Capitol commission of their own because they can control its remit: for instance it being purely on security failings. And as the only outcome of such a review of can be potential security failings, when it's published they can say the Capitol riot only occurred because of security failings - problem solved.
 
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Adam Jensen

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Republicans want to bury the Capitol riot in public attention because it makes them (and particularly Trump) look bad by reminding everyone Trump-supporting Republican voters, assisted by Republican Congressmen, committed an act of domestic terrorism.
There. I fixed it for you.
 
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tstorm823

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No. This is all just trying to make sure no-one ever seriously looks at the Jan 6th Capitol event.
Except the Attorney General, and the FBI, the media, literally everyone... do you really believe that there's something new to be found that only Congress can dig up?
 

Gordon_4

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Except the Attorney General, and the FBI, the media, literally everyone... do you really believe that there's something new to be found that only Congress can dig up?
I sincerely doubt that a similar group would assault the House of Parliament and there not be a Royal Commission. Anyone who thought a Congressional response wasn’t going to happen - be they Democrat or Republican - is a fool.
 

Avnger

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Except the Attorney General, and the FBI, the media, literally everyone... do you really believe that there's something new to be found that only Congress can dig up?
I'm sure you felt the exact same way about the 7(!) Benghazi investigations and the Clinton email investigations, right?
 
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BrawlMan

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tstorm823

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I sincerely doubt that a similar group would assault the House of Parliament and there not be a Royal Commission. Anyone who thought a Congressional response wasn’t going to happen - be they Democrat or Republican - is a fool.
A royal commission is done by a head of state, the effective equivalent in the US would be an investigation by the US executive branch, of which there are several ongoing. Congress' power to investigate is intended to be limited to matters that are pertinent to lawmaking, investigating crimes is not their job. The 9/11 commission makes sense, because 9/11 was an event that called for changes to US foreign policy. A January 6th commission is not that.
The Republicans are just trying to delay punishment for their crimes long enough to repeat them.
Congress has no power to punish them for the crimes you imagine them committing. If they are to be prosecuted for crimes, it's going to come from the existing investigations. The difference between those and this is that those are real investigations that will have to go to court and can actually accomplish something, where this is just going to a Maoist struggle session for Democrats to publicly shame those who disagree with them.
I'm sure you felt the exact same way about the 7(!) Benghazi investigations and the Clinton email investigations, right?
Not the exact same way, as an outside attack on a US embassy is something appropriate that Congress might investigate to help determine policy. That being said, that justifies one investigation, and the other 6 you could probably call Maoist struggle sessions to shame Clinton and the Obama administration.

The email investigation, iirc, was done by the FBI, and the congressional involvement was just the House Oversight Committee. I might be misremembering though.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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The cult is still being fueled by the attention seeker, the damage is still being done. This fraudit is nothing but a lie machine.




Honestly have never seen such sore insolant losers in my entire life. Even as a child with my sibling who often tipped the board game over they were losing at in a tantrum, that only ever lasted an evening at most. Not this drawn out embarrassment of a farce. Christ in hell.

Moving on to anti-vaxx updates, whose circles of influence are now pretty much entwined with a lot of these other conspiracies thanks to qanon;


It's an ever ever-evolving stinky shitshow of corrupt murderous (manslaughterous?) opportunists.

A glimpse of the reality exuding from this, of which people I also know are going through;

 
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Thaluikhain

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It's an ever ever-evolving stinky shitshow of corrupt murderous (manslaughterous?) opportunists.
Well, at least this one was foiled by people choosing doing the right thing over money. Or at least some of them.

A glimpse of the reality exuding from this, of which people I also know are going through;

Well...yes. But if your relationship ends because the other person is a dangerous blight upon society, what have you lost? Easy for me to say not being in that situation, though.
 

Agema

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Except the Attorney General, and the FBI, the media, literally everyone... do you really believe that there's something new to be found that only Congress can dig up?
It is not only about whether they can access something no-one else can, but about demonstrating transparency and accountability on official record. It is inconceivable that most countries would not order some form of official government commission to investigate a clusterfuck incident of the magnitude of the Capitol riot. Unofficial investigations by (for instance) the media don't cut it. Bodies such as law enforcement agencies often aren't ideal for a holistic view because aspects of these incidents can go outside their remit and perspectives. And, of course, they've held commissions on far, far lesser things. If they form a committee to write up a nothingburger smear sheet on Hunter Biden or drag Hillary Clinton through years of shit over some emails, it is beyond credibility they lack justification to examine the Capitol riot very thoroughly.

Talking about Hunter B and Clinton, I am of course also aware of the double-edged sword that these commissions are frequently bent, particularly when overseen by politicians. One might note in the UK that even some independent commissions on matters that posed enough risk of embarrassment to the state have had their results overturned later, or have been constrained to protect important people. They were set up to produce a nice, safe whitewash, and the truth could be allowed to come out decades later once the risk of inconvenience had gone away.
...there's one of these fiddles in process at the moment about the government's response to covid. There were some very alarming things that occurred that require thorough scrutiny, and pretty much everyone agrees it needs scrutiny, but... The government has declared it's a bit too soon to be looking at it, and they'll want to take a good few years to make sure everything's done properly, and very conveniently, if it's even started (delay long enough, people forget) any result will emerge after Boris Johnson has left office and gone back to his career making zillions as a professional, lying twat. Oh so awfully convenient.

And thus the Republican resistance. Any serious, honest commission is just a lose-lose for them. They need a) no commission, b) a commission that is easy to completely discredit, or c) one they can run themselves to ensure they can decide the evidence and conclusion to exculpate themselves. That is the only reason they killed the independent one and then tried to dump two grossly biased, ideological clowns on the congressional one when there were another 100+ more reasonable ones they could have picked instead to represent their interests.
 

tstorm823

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It is not only about whether they can access something no-one else can, but about demonstrating transparency and accountability on official record. It is inconceivable that most countries would not order some form of official government commission to investigate a clusterfuck incident of the magnitude of the Capitol riot. Unofficial investigations by (for instance) the media don't cut it. Bodies such as law enforcement agencies often aren't ideal for a holistic view because aspects of these incidents can go outside their remit and perspectives. And, of course, they've held commissions on far, far lesser things. If they form a committee to write up a nothingburger smear sheet on Hunter Biden or drag Hillary Clinton through years of shit over some emails, it is beyond credibility they lack justification to examine the Capitol riot very thoroughly.
Neither of those things had a congressional commission. They had hearings, they did not form new committees for that purpose.

And if it's only about adding transparency and accountability, but you accept it could also be about lies and whitewashing at times to do a commission like this, you genuinely should read up on Maoist struggle sessions and understand what the Democrats are doing.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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Well, at least this one was foiled by people choosing doing the right thing over money. Or at least some of them.



Well...yes. But if your relationship ends because the other person is a dangerous blight upon society, what have you lost? Easy for me to say not being in that situation, though.
Human psychology around troubled relationships is unfortunately never that simple. Anecdotally speaking, all the women on one side of my family have been caught in abusive, harmful relationships for years due to the various fears of leaving the person: often a mixture of concerns relating to financial traps, low self-esteem, kids, age and worries around the troubles of finding new partners who aren't just worse, amongst other factors that contribute to the perception that seperation will lead to only more difficulty, so the philosophy of "better the devil you know" is maintained, sadly too often until it escalates to an actual life-or-death decision ultimatum.