It depends who you ask. I've heard it claimed that a fair whack of these changes are coming from within at the current developer's own request. I find that to be a touch dubious because what these and most of the other cosmetic changes coming in the next patch reek of to me is Activision's legion of Saul Goodman's telling them to go through and sanitise the game's image as much as is humanly possible so they have a bunch of meaningless but very visible and easily provable changes. Possibly banking on the court and the prosecuting attorneys being ignorant of games and gaming into the bargain.
A Formal Thread about Activision/Blizzard
- Thread starter CriticalGaming
- Start date
Yes.
Blizzard's meme status of playing the Kevin Spacey card over anything and everything exists for a reason. Now, after years of...frankly, anyone however obliquely associated with the games industry apart from gamers...ignoring the pile of canary corpses outside the mine shaft opening, it's all the Blizzard-Activision "PR" team knows, and they're behaving precisely as expected.
So just how were Gamers meant to know when the press just refused to cover this stuff a lot of the time or talk about it for fear of losing access?
Are Gamers meant to be scoping out the offices like investigators on a stake out or something lol?
To be clear I agree with a decent bit of what you're saying but blaming games for Activision Blizzard is like blaming Cinephiles of Harvey Weinstein
I'm going to assume you meant to say blaming gamers in this case and not games. That might have been a typo, I don't know. If it is a typo, while gamers aren't necessarily all that there is to blame about Atci-Blizzard, it's a toxic cycle that said company started and feeds into itself. Activision and Blizzard had plenty of fans that wikk blindly defend them and ignore all the atrocities they committed. Those fans won't lift a finger until effects them personally or their fun. They don't give a rat's ass about the actual victims. Yet happy to enable talks of bad behavior and for fans to act like jackasses to people who dare have legit criticisms about female character designs almost always being stripperific.
Former World of Warcraft designer apologizes for the cringeworthy, sexist stuff they said at BlizzCon 2010
Greg Street says the answer to a question about over-sexualized World of Warcraft characters was "embarrassing."
www.pcgamer.com
Sure, it's not all gamers, but there are plenty of bad people out there that are gamers that are contributing to this bad behavior. Wanting to act inhuman to actual victims, but will suddenly get defensive and try to claim "they're human too" only when they get called out on said shitty behavior or their asses kicked.
It's no different from those terrorists at the Capitol riots. They want to act all strong and tough, but when they get caught and face consequences for their actions, then they'll start whimpering like little cowards and piss ants that they are.
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Ah yes cause clearly the reason for all the sexual harassment at Blizzard was the characters in the game are just too sexy. What is this the Joss Wheddon argument of "Well how do you expect me to not behave badly with all these sexy young women about, I can't be expected to have self control it's all the fault of the media that I'm like this it's not my fault for not having and mental fortitude or morales" ?I'm going to assume you meant to say blaming gamers in this case and not games. That might have been a typo, I don't know. If it is a typo, while gamers aren't necessarily all that there is to blame about Atci Blizzard, it's a toxic cycle that said company started and feeds into itself. Activism and blizzard had plenty of fans that we blindly defend them and ignore all the atrocities they committed. Those fans won't let the finger until affects them personally or their fun. They don't give a rat's ass about the actual victims. Yet happy to enable talks of bad behavior and for fans to act like jackasses to people who dare have legit criticisms about female character designs almost always being stripperific.
Former World of Warcraft designer apologizes for the cringeworthy, sexist stuff they said at BlizzCon 2010
Greg Street says the answer to a question about over-sexualized World of Warcraft characters was "embarrassing."
Sure, it's not all gamers, but there are plenty of bad people out there that are gamers that are contributing to this bad behavior. Wanting to act inhuman to actual victims, but will suddenly get defenses and try to claim "they're human too" only when they get called out on said shitty behavior or their asses kicked.
It's no different from those terrorists at the Capitol riots. They want to act all strong and tough, but when they get caught and face consequences for their actions, then they'll start whimpering like little cowards and piss ants that they are.
Sexy characters in game are not atrocities.
Removing Anime butt poses won't end rape.
Talk about missing the entire point a thousand miles the other way (considering it's you, I'm not surprised in the slightest). No, sexy characters don't start or cause rape, but it doesn't change the fact that are attitudes out there that should not exist, but do. The fact that a lot of these guys got overly defensive about the designs, yet are more than happy to insult anyone or those that are female that criticize, shows they lack compassionate empathy and think less of those that are not the same genders them, and sometimes not the same race as them. Here you are again down playing actions or defending jackasses. How about you stop being part of the problem start being part of the solution. So do me a favor and stop being part of the fuckin problem.
What attitudes?
That sexy women are fine?
They weren't that overly defensive either considering the point presented was that all female characters in game were like sports illustrated swimsuit models when that can be shown to be false as there are female NPCs who very much don't look like swimsuit models. The lady was bringing up an argument that was either deliberate hyperbole or ignorance and so they replied in a manner that was appropriate to what seemed to be a bad faith argument not reflecting the reality of the game.
(See Chromie)
Why are people required to be compassionate to bullshit?
Was Quentin Tarantino obligated to entertain and pretend there was validity to claims against his work?
Was James Rolfe when similar was done to him at a panel?
I mean were companies required to pretend that yes Jack Thompson totally had a point and that games may be responsible for these mass shootings as schools? No if people come with claims that are very exaggerated or not matching reality they will get shut down and to expect something different is inviting the most disingenuous people to try and exploit the position and use the lack of opposition as proof the companies know and agree with them.
It's hilarious to see you accuse me of being part of the problem. Truly. I'm part of the problem for now bowing down and allowing the removal of sexy women in games because a woman said so and I guess according to you a woman can't possibly handle having to actually present points and having me argue back. No the poor weaker sex must be given their way right? How dare they be held to a similar standard as a guy would be making ridiculous claims.
The point was that they hired a bunch of toxic asshats who put in a bunch of stupid bullshit to please other toxic asshats.
Games might not make you a toxic asshat, but hanging out with other toxic asshats sure will
Oh right because liking sexy women is toxic right?
Sorry for not being a chaste as you.
The hanging out with other toxic asshats can do I'll give you that but seeing sexy female characters as a sign of that seems kinda very dumb.
Uhh, they literally hired toxic forum trolls who were so bad that other griefers celebrated when they left. They then fostered that same enviro at their new job, which manifested with sexist bullshit in games.
Like I've said, only time people complain about sexiness in, say, FF14 is when it isn't equal opportunity. You can absolutely do sexy well, and they didn't
There you go with the whataboutism (a big Houseman and tstorm tacit), extending the goal post, missing the point again (you figure it out since you're the genius) and talking about situations that have nothing to with anything. What a cowardly act. All you've been doing so far is this punk ass middle of the road bullshit. How about you actually acknowledge the bullshit that goes on at 100%? Not a quarter way, not half, and certainly not 99.9999%! All of it or none it. When you do that and 100% admit and acknowledge, we'll have an actual serious discussion. But you will never do it, because you rather bite your tongue due to pride, or afraid that your precious fantasy titties will be "stolen away by femenists" by admitting that toxic culture Blizz-Acti started and circulated for over 20 years.
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And some people can be total assholes but also brilliant at what they do. It happens.
Also to be clear what specific sexist bullshit?
Or when you're a reporter from a gaming website upset over sexy bunny girl establishments in game and are trying to shame the dev team into taking action against them...........
That's...exactly the point I was making.
Most gamers had a keener sense of what was going on behind closed doors at Blizzard, than those who lived in a media bubble and those that perpetuated the media bubble for cash and prizes. That's how Blizzard's adherence to the Kevin Spacey school of media relations became the meme it is. Because gamers were, by and large, the ones noticing trends in the bigger picture, and the repeated controversies and scandals in which Blizzard found itself, and the multitude of disingenuous ways Blizzard employed to cover its ass over the years.
That doesn't just go for Kaplan and Afrasiabi as I stated earlier. That goes for the media weasels like Schreier and their tendency to be well in the know, but play ignorant or actively run interference for companies with performative politics amenable to them whilst strategically deploying insider knowledge in attempted takedowns of companies that don't play performative political games.
Merely to have a practiced sense of pattern recognition, a skill that develops between three to four months of age in humans which many in the industry seem to lack.
This is pretty much the best and worst example you could have given, you know that right? Most cinephiles were aware of the Weinstein shit before it blew up. That Hollywood is a corrupt, predatory cesspool, particularly towards women, is no secret, and warning signs about Weinstein the film industry and its associated media apparatus expected cinephiles to willfully ignore, existed for years.
That wasn't a story that started in October, 2017, that's just when the apparatus protecting Weinstein collapsed. Nor did it start in 2015 when the NYS AG's office investigated, but refused to indict, Weinstein. Didn't even start in 2013 when perennial predictive whistleblower Seth MacFarlane joked about it during the Oscars.
The hints of Weinstein's behavior that went ignored
His history of harassment and assault has been alluded to several times.
www.axios.com
Courtney Love warned actresses about Harvey Weinstein in 2005
Singer Courtney Love warned young actresses about Harvey Weinstein in 2005, according to a video that emerged on Saturday.
There was a twenty-year pattern of information leaking the public via whistleblowers about him, that was either ignored or covered up by the same people who'd later feign shock and disgust in October 2017, despite clearly having been in the know for decades.
Do you not actually read the threads that you post in?
Dunno nor care what you're talking about
Ah yes how dare I want specfics not generic claims about that only work if you already 100% buy into it.
"Why yes Doctor Who is an awful show for kids all tat violence, no I've never watched it though"
You're seemingly upset I've compared the claims to other similar situations to emphasise the point and can't actually respond to what's being said for so reason or won't because you know you're in a tight spot with no easy way out. But hey just call it a fallacy or do the move you love doing of going "I'm not gonna bother responding to what you said cause I think it's stupid and I know better cause I'm Brawlman and you a fool" or words to that effect.
As for pulling the "it's cowardly to compare things to other things" line, were you planning to have that sound like you were parroting Biff from Back to the Future or was it unintentional?
You want me to acknowledge what went down?
Ok how about you stop trying to pretend a woman in a relationship with a superior who had her private intimate pictures shared round the office and killed herself on a business trip with that same superior is somehow equivalently in how terrible it is to a Dwarf making a joke about joining the Mile Deep club in game. Because lets be clear they're very much not and the former is very much more severe than a slightly puerile joke which was harming no-one. Is that acknowledging the problem enough for you or are you going to be upset I'm not focusing more on yelling from the rooftops about how clearly Toxic Blizzard are because a male elf says the line "Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me" in game?
You want to lay down the requirements to have the discussion?
Well here's mine. When you stop trying to pretend puerile jokes in game are some huge outrage and on par with some of the bullshit that happened to real people, then we can have an actual serious discussion but as is those jokes seem to be your target or at least people calling out how dumb the move is because I dunno maybe you think it's actually doing something meaningful just because it's doing something and don't realise how stupid such a thing is or how in the modern age it's been the people on about sexy women in game being bad who have kept turning out to be some of the worst perpetrators of abuse.
But "Oh Jeff's Toxic"
Jeff also has had 0 allegations against him.
0 and there doesn't seem to be any coming either.
You talk of pride seems so like a projection when you have multiple times happily and proudly boasted about not reading what I've written, not bothering to take the time to comprehend it and encouraged other posts to do the same. That takes one hell of a level of ego and pride to do repeatedly but then to realise the hypocrisy there would take some introspection on your part.
And you're once again playing the victim game. You done? Cuz I've been done. Deal with it. Ciao.
Thing is can you blame gamers for doubting in the face of the press somewhat gaslighting them?That's...exactly the point I was making.
Most gamers had a keener sense of what was going on behind closed doors at Blizzard, than those who lived in a media bubble and those that perpetuated the media bubble for cash and prizes. That's how Blizzard's adherence to the Kevin Spacey school of media relations became the meme it is. Because gamers were, by and large, the ones noticing trends in the bigger picture, and the repeated controversies and scandals in which Blizzard found itself, and the multitude of disingenuous ways Blizzard employed to cover its ass over the years.
That doesn't just go for Kaplan and Afrasiabi as I stated earlier. That goes for the media weasels like Schreier and their tendency to be well in the know, but play ignorant or actively run interference for companies with performative politics amenable to them whilst strategically deploying insider knowledge in attempted takedowns of companies that don't play performative political games.
Merely to have a practiced sense of pattern recognition, a skill that develops between three to four months of age in humans which many in the industry seem to lack.
This is pretty much the best and worst example you could have given, you know that right? Most cinephiles were aware of the Weinstein shit before it blew up. That Hollywood is a corrupt, predatory cesspool, particularly towards women, is no secret, and warning signs about Weinstein the film industry and its associated media apparatus expected cinephiles to willfully ignore, existed for years.
That wasn't a story that started in October, 2017, that's just when the apparatus protecting Weinstein collapsed. Nor did it start in 2015 when the NYS AG's office investigated, but refused to indict, Weinstein. Didn't even start in 2013 when perennial predictive whistleblower Seth MacFarlane joked about it during the Oscars.
The hints of Weinstein's behavior that went ignored
His history of harassment and assault has been alluded to several times.
Courtney Love warned actresses about Harvey Weinstein in 2005
Singer Courtney Love warned young actresses about Harvey Weinstein in 2005, according to a video that emerged on Saturday.www.telegraph.co.uk
There was a twenty-year pattern of information leaking the public via whistleblowers about him, that was either ignored or covered up by the same people who'd later feign shock and disgust in October 2017, despite clearly having been in the know for decades.
"No Blizzard aren't cynically revealing x character to be a minority to cover up for things you're just being biggoted toxic gamers" was the general line thrown round and supported by some with certain political persuasions. The same people now pretending Gamers never acted or raised concerns before.
The pattern recognition has been there for a while but every time some-one brings it up it's "Oh no it couldn't possibly be this time it's Toxic gamers"
Cinephile wise I meant it as in people who love cinema not people who follow the industry gossip and rumours more as such, just people who really love films and watching them and the mechanics of making them more than the human drama and human angle to them if that makes sense.
No I'm calling you on your bullshit and you did pretty much what I said you would.
We actually done here now or are you going to show up again doing your Statler and Waldorf routine again? You don't want to accept the BS you've been pulling and that's for you to deal with and have some introspection over not me at some point if you don't want to keep being called on it.
Yes which specific sexist IN GAME things are being objected to again.
Because in the company is different to in the game and the argument is being made that relates to the games now.....
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You clearly have some anger problems, so I'll Ieave you alone let you deal with them. Good night.