a hypothetical situation

[MorgulMan]

I suppose it depends on the age of my child. But ultimately, the point would be to offer whatever age-appropriate assistance, possibly including therapy, is necessary to overcome the false-to-facts belief.

Could you please explain?

If you want clarification on what sort of therapy or assistance I mean, it would be that which has as its goal the reconciling of my child to his or her sex. As to false to facts, I mean to say that, barring a rare genetic disorder (which generally manifests nonetheless in a fairly definitive physical sex AFAIK) he has a definite sex. There is no gender problem, unless he is a word with an ambiguous ending.

Cut short for time.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'd like to point something out here, Transgenderism isn't purely psychological. There are cases of over exposure to androgens in utero that result in the child having a predisposition towards being transgendered.

It's not really a predisposition, though. Hormonal influences in the womb are one factor in brain setups that simply identify as something different than the body you're born into. But predisposition? You kind of...Are or you aren't.

It's not so much about sexual norms as it is about the idea that sexual identity is so important to them that they feel the need to have corrective surgery.

Your brain carries information about what your body "should" be. If you think this is an issue solely reserved for transfolks, try HRT for a few months and see how you feel. Don't worry, it can be reversed....

I would feel just as appalled by the thought that my child wanted penis enhancement medication or breast augmentation; well, probably more so, given the extent, expense and potential risk of the procedure of sexual reassignment.

Way to trivialise it.

But the second you start thinking of sex in terms of such self-definitional terms as that invoked in transsexualism (also including spending too much time watching pornography, dressing deliberatively provocatively for the sake of unqualified sexual attraction, or working in prostitution in later life), I will step in to intervene.

You can't be serious.

 

[Something Amyss]

As to false to facts, I mean to say that, barring a rare genetic disorder (which generally manifests nonetheless in a fairly definitive physical sex AFAIK) he has a definite sex. There is no gender problem, unless he is a word with an ambiguous ending.

Sex and physical gender are not the same thing. To say there is no gender prblem is to triialise your hypothetical child's experience. attempting to "fix" them will likely result in depression and suicide attempts.

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine what loving or caring parent would want their kids to be treated to depression and suicide just to "fix" their own issues with the matter at hand.

 

[Xaio30]

I would first of all make sure that my child really wanted this.

If yes: Full support through life.

If no: Teach him/her (no joke intended) to respect those who actually wen't through with such decisions.

 

[Indeterminacy]

You can't be serious.

Why not? My perspective is that sexual identity is not determinative of you are - even if this is somehow a matter of biologically determinate states of affairs, why should we think that the brute facts of biology need to drive our cognitive behaviour? If this is your perspective, then psychiatry would seem to have no function at all, because everyone behaves the way their brain tells them to and this is all there is to matters of mental configuration.

I do not doubt for one minute that hormones would have an impact on my cognitive state. In fact, the use of supplementary hormones seems to positively support my position that biology need have very little to do with the problem at hand of self-identity. We can overrule our current biological state through acts of will, should we be so inclined.

The position I am opposed to is one that says "I was born in the wrong kind of body". There is no "wrong kind of body" from a biological perspective, so the matter must be about cultural value. And that is what I think needs challenged. Why should our society feel the need to tell people that they are incomplete or substandard in the body they currently have? Well, because it thinks sex is important. A world that thinks that is a world with problems.

 

[Hagi]

This pretty much sums it up:

supportive conversation...



KILL THEM!

 

[MorgulMan]

As to false to facts, I mean to say that, barring a rare genetic disorder (which generally manifests nonetheless in a fairly definitive physical sex AFAIK) he has a definite sex. There is no gender problem, unless he is a word with an ambiguous ending.

Sex and physical gender are not the same thing.

You can and many, I'm sure, do make that assertion, but saying it doesn't make it so. Which is kind of my point here. I can't be certain what you mean by "physical gender" that I would not call "sex". To the best of my knowledge, the word gender has been applied to non-grammatical uses for barely a half century, and in vogue for perhaps half of that. Again, in my understanding, it has been used to refer to societal or psychological markers/roles that are associated with sex.

To say there is no gender prblem is to triialise your hypothetical child's experience. attempting to "fix" them will likely result in depression and suicide attempts.

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine what loving or caring parent would want their kids to be treated to depression and suicide just to "fix" their own issues with the matter at hand.

It is precisely because I love my children that I would affirm reality and try to help them reconcile their internal conflict with that reality. Agreeing with my daughter that she is really a male when she is objectively not would not be an act of love. Encouraging her to undergo, if she should decide, a complex "transition" of great medical, legal, social, and psychological import, and to thereby coerce reality to kneel to her delusion, rather than overcoming the delusion to fit reality, would not be an act of love, but practically one of malice.

A self-perception that one is or should be a different sex than one really is IS a delusion, just as much as a perception that one is a cat or Napoleon. While there may be some merit in playing along with the delusion to get at its root, it does no service to the person to encourage and support it. The fact that the root of the problem might not be psychological, but organic, does not mean that the perceived reality is now real.

To put it a different way, when my eight year old daughter tells me she wants to be an astronaut and a writer and a teacher when she grows up, I tell her that those are all very involved careers, and it isn't likely that she's going to achieve them all, but that with hard work and dedication, she could prove me wrong. When my four year old son tells me he wants to be Thomas the Tank engine when he grows up, I tell him he can't, because he is a human, not a train. But if he likes trains, perhaps he can become a conductor, or an engineer, or work to design and build new trains, or any number of things.

It is part of my role, my duty as a parent to teach my children the way things are, and how to handle, cope, or overcome various situations. Affirming something that is patently untrue as truth would be a failure of that duty.

 

[demoman_chaos]

Murder. I brought them into this world I can take them out. Doesn't matter to me, I can make another one that looks just like them. {obvious unseriousness should be obvious}

 

[Crazy Zaul]

Would they even need to come out? If a boy is wearing a dress and doing his nails its pretty obvious.

 

[Thunderclam]

Let them live their life the way they want to.

 

[Indeterminacy]

Again, in my understanding, it has been used to refer to societal or psychological markers/roles that are associated with sex.

For what it's worth, this is my understanding too, but the association isn't always direct. Basically it's about the division between masculine and feminine, which includes aspects of dress, conversational mannerisms, social graces and interests and the like as well. The connection of sex to these things is generally quite loose.

It is precisely because I love my children that I would affirm reality and try to help them reconcile their internal conflict with that reality.

I don't think this is the best way to make the point, since you're making commitments to "reality" here that are apt to be challenged. That is, who's to say that what you understand to be "real" and grounded is either the way things are "really", or that they will be? In fact, let's make the assumption for the minute that sexual reassignment really does completely facilitate someone to completely take up the reverse sexual identity, or at the very least that such a thing might eventually become medically possible; what we think of as "really possible" in this line of discussion is thus apt to be revised.

You can say pretty much exactly what you want to say without going into "reality" vs "fantasy", which is to talk about it in terms of self-conception and authenticity. Does someone want to be Thomas the Tank Engine just because they think it would be cool to be Thomas the Tank Engine, or because they would like to be like Thomas the Tank Engine in certain ways? The latter doesn't at all really trouble the idea that you can be authentically yourself while finding traits and properties that you value to work towards, but the former (in place of the latter) suggests that you're really not being true to your own development, rather creating a sort of distance from your own self-image.

All this I think is more suited to older child and teenage psychology, in line with the general transgender aspect of the discussion. The development of the younger child's own self-image is probably more along the lines of what you're talking about.

 

[spartan231490]

Not care. Hakuna Matata. Seriously, what is the problem here?

 

[Mischa87]

Situation follows: Okay, I want you to imagine yourself as a parent. Now, this child, of whichever gender, comes out to you as a transgender, what do you do?

If you actually meant transgendered as in "is a general term applied to a variety of individuals, behaviors, and groups involving tendencies to vary from culturally conventional gender roles." Then sure, I would support them, and let them explore themselves as they see fit, obviously while trying to protect them from harm.

If you really meant transsexual, as in someone who's gender (brain) is different enough from their sex (body) that they wish to change their body, well, I'd have to be more careful about this, as there are inherently a lot more risks in dealing with this. Like the transgendered child example, I'd let them explore it within reason until they were able to properly address, and think about the situation (about 16 or so) And if they still had those feelings, I'd take them to the proper specialists and progress from there.

That's my two cents, and also, I am a male-to-female transsexual, just thought that was important in this topic.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

I think the dialogue would go as follows:

Son/daughter-Daughter/son: I'm a tranny.

Me: Cool, dinner will be ready soon so go wash up.

S/D-D/S: That's all you hve to say?

Me: Yup.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

Would they even need to come out? If a boy is wearing a dress and doing his nails its pretty obvious.

While he's at it he might as well say "Also... I'm white dad, I can't help it, I was born this way."

 

[Crazy]

I can't post to you right now, I'm catching a plane to LA.

 

[Ranorak]

I'd probably help them find a forum or support group. Support him/her every step of the way.
Get in contact with others that share the same feelings.
Be as supportive, understanding and informed as I can be.

Assuming I ever have kids, what with Skyrim coming out soon.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Let them be transgender.
Really, I wouldn't care personally, it's my kid and they can be whoever they want to, I support them wholeheartedly.

This.

Gender is merely a social construct anyway.

OP: By the way, if you mean transgender AND transexual, then... still this. Although the second option is far more expensive, and not covered by my insurance.

 

[Indeterminacy]

That's my two cents, and also, I am a male-to-female transsexual, just thought that was important in this topic.

I hope you don't find this intrusive, but would it be possible to ask about whether there was something in particular about having a male body that contributed to your decision to transition?

My current theory about transsexualism (as you might have glimpsed if you've read the discussion in this thread) is that the physical changes are instrumental to the aim of full cross-gender transition. I just wondered if your experience might throw up some challenges to that.