A Male on Females on Female Characters

Nurb

Cynical bastard
Dec 9, 2008
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GloatingSwine said:
Nurb said:
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I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the double standard in targeted audience of entertainment products getting an appealing character to look at.


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The double standard is in the fact that us dudes whine about twilight whilst lapping up any hot chick gaming serves to us. (and don't say you don't. Alyx Vance runs off ahead for a reason you know...)

(though this doesn't only apply to men, Sephiroth didn't wear a shirt for reasons not dissimilar to those cited on behalf of Peter Petrelli. Women like fanservice too, deal with it.
I think you're misread what little I wrote. I agree that both genders enjoy getting pandered too with pleasing looking characters, but I don't agree with guys catching shit over Miranda in ME2, while 40 year old women drool over an under age guys shirtless bod without hearing a word of disapproval.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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Sep 15, 2010
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Shamus Young said:
Shamus would love to see more gender diversity in games.
Yeah, I'm right there with Shamus on this one.

I want more female characters!

Also, I agree with the thing about not minding female sexualization. I like being sexy in real life, so why wouldn't I like playing a sexy female character?
 

theultimateend

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Nov 1, 2007
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Raiyan 1.0 said:
Funny. Weren't a ton of guys offended by Lisa Foiles' attire when she started off - because they felt that kind of objectification is usually reserved for frat boys and doesn't suit their demography?

Of course, Lisa then later goes wearing a shirt that made everyone want to do the Konami code. Oh, the cheek of that girl... &nbsp :)
I actually didn't originally watch the show cause I thought it would be retarded pandering and frankly there is plenty of porn in the sea.

Then I finally watched it and was pleasantly surprised at how funny I found her and how much I enjoyed the series. It's a great show, and thankfully she tells you just who the hell she is (which made it even MORE enjoyable because I realized they didn't just hire her because she's attractive).

As for the Original Post.

Make every character from now till infinity a woman and make them any race you can possibly imagine. I care so little for what my main character actually is that it's just gravy to me.

If at the same time it'll enrich the gaming world by making it "diverse" that's cool too.

Seriously had cloud been a woman I would have not experienced the game any differently. Well...considering my age at the time I might have had unclean thoughts about the protagonist, but otherwise I would have enjoyed it no more or less.

Maybe the fact that male characters have very little personality is why game developers like them? They all feel like very empty canvases that could have two X chromosomes if they wanted and not really effect their little necessity.

So yeah, no rage from my game library. I've never seen the importance of race or gender (seeing as you don't influence those traits in yourself), so it's not on my list of important things for a character.

I'm all a flutter about WHO someone is instead of WHAT someone is.
 

AgentNein

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Jun 14, 2008
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mattag08 said:
Kadir said:
mattag08 said:
lesterley said:
I assume you're making the point that there should be more situations where women interact with each other? Why is that important?
It's important because if you ask:
1) Is there more than one man?
2) Do the men talk to each other?
3) Do they talk about anything other than the female characters?
Almost every game and movie will pass. Females make up roughly 50% of the population yet they probably hold less than 10% of the conversations in popular media.
Did you ever wonder why? And if your answer is "the patriarchy" then you've missed the mark.
Please, fill us in as to why then. I'm honestly curious, because my votes going towards institutional sexism.
 

reachforthesky

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Jun 13, 2010
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Once again, the problem lies in apathy of the fans. It's easy to go to PAX and read these forums and article and think, "Wow, so many people think this, why don't we see it reflected by people who make these games?" These venues, you must remember, are filled almost entirely with people who really care about video games. Pick a random IRL friend who plays video games and ask them what they think of the state of protagonist variety in the AAA game industry and tell me if you get anything more than a blank stare. Like most other annoying things game designers are prone to do, we'll just have to wait for the image of the gamer to mature, which will happen as more and more of the kids who play video games grow up and become adults.
 

klausaidon

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Aug 4, 2009
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I wonder what the panel would think about a female character being the main antagonist. I've been working on a game/story centered around the protagonist trying to get revenge on his (female) mentor, who betrayed him.
 

SageRuffin

M-f-ing Jedi Master
Dec 19, 2009
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I don't mind more female leads, or at the very least more female characters worth a damn. Gimme some more girls like Chun-Li, or, uh... hell, Rochelle (sorry, mind went at a complete blank just then). You know, they kick ass and can be dainty too if they ever felt like it. :D

That's one of a few reasons why, if the game allows it, I prefer to play a female character. I have the option, might as well use it (extra points since I want to use it). I like a woman who, well, can stomp you into the ground. :p
 

BlindChance

Librarian
Sep 8, 2009
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Sir John the Net Knight said:
If you think you can do better Mr. Young, step up to the plate and make a video game.
Oh, seriously? You're going to pull out that hackneyed old canard?

Should every movie critic make a film before they're allowed to say if they feel a film is good or not? And how specific do we go? Should Roger Ebert be allowed to criticise a film's writing (since he's written films) but not the direction, since he's never directed one?

Am I allowed to criticise a novel? I've written professionally, but never had a novel published.

Criticism is its own field. That Shamus Young has not written a game himself (that I'm aware of) does not disqualify him from making intelligent criticism of the gaming industry.

And if you don't think the above comments are intelligent? Then refute them. Don't just handwave the author.
 

mattag08

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Sep 9, 2009
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AgentNein said:
mattag08 said:
Kadir said:
mattag08 said:
lesterley said:
I assume you're making the point that there should be more situations where women interact with each other? Why is that important?
It's important because if you ask:
1) Is there more than one man?
2) Do the men talk to each other?
3) Do they talk about anything other than the female characters?
Almost every game and movie will pass. Females make up roughly 50% of the population yet they probably hold less than 10% of the conversations in popular media.
Did you ever wonder why? And if your answer is "the patriarchy" then you've missed the mark.
Please, fill us in as to why then. I'm honestly curious, because my votes going towards institutional sexism.
Because men are far more believable characters than women by and large. Making a believable female character that is useful as a video game character in normal video game settings (mostly military or violent) is pretty difficult. It's also something that's not good business sense for the target audience of mostly male gamers.
 

FoolKiller

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Feb 8, 2008
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The only thing that I really missed was the discussion of my two favourite strong and vulnerable female characters:
The girl from Silent Hill 3
Jade from Beyond Good and Evil
 

Darkauthor81

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Feb 10, 2007
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The message I get from the advertiser isn't, "Buy a tube of our tooth-cleansing goop," but, "We think you're stupid enough to believe that strange women will be dry-humping you on the subway if you buy this product." It's hard to enjoy something if you're left with the impression that the creator thinks you're a knuckle-dragging simpleton.

THANK YOU. This is the reason why I barely watch anime anymore. I'm tired of shows pandering to the sex depraved "nice guys" who are wimpy, misunderstood, and who women would love if they "just got to know him". They pander to this audience with 2 dimensional harem women flashing panty and boob cleavage to the point it's in almost every anime. I have assume that they think if you're watching anime at all, you MUST want to see this stuff because only this type of person watches anime.

I'm a sarcastic bitter ass hole who has had sex with more than his fair share of women. Where's the anime that panders to me? There is none. They so focus on whom they think their target audience is that they insult and alienate everyone else.

Gaming is very much guilty of this as well.
 

Darkauthor81

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Feb 10, 2007
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theultimateend said:
Raiyan 1.0 said:
Funny. Weren't a ton of guys offended by Lisa Foiles' attire when she started off - because they felt that kind of objectification is usually reserved for frat boys and doesn't suit their demography?

Of course, Lisa then later goes wearing a shirt that made everyone want to do the Konami code. Oh, the cheek of that girl...   :)
I actually didn't originally watch the show cause I thought it would be retarded pandering and frankly there is plenty of porn in the sea.

Then I finally watched it and was pleasantly surprised at how funny I found her and how much I enjoyed the series. It's a great show, and thankfully she tells you just who the hell she is (which made it even MORE enjoyable because I realized they didn't just hire her because she's attractive).
I thought the very same thing. I figure "She's gonna bounce and jut like Tifa from FF7 in tight t shirts pretending to be a gamer while reciting whatever gamer she has doing her writing tells her to say." I was right about the Tifa and tight t-shirt thing. But I was pleasantly surprised that she actually plays video games and knows what she's talking about. While her show is more about T and A and less about substance, it's not quite bad enough that I feel it's insulting me either.
 

ostro-whiskey

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Aug 23, 2009
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For all intents and purposes, all historical Heroes are men; so what exactly is the basis for all this gender equality bitching besides furthering a political agenda.
 

VectorZero

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Apr 15, 2010
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Zom-B said:
VectorZero said:
The term player character came from the original Dungeons and Dragons. It's as close to an official term as you'll get.
I won't dispute that, but it's also a term not widely used, even within the PnP roleplaying community.
Let's agree that it's not widely used within your experience of the PnP RP community, and a commonly accepted term in mine.
 

Marik Bentusi

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2010
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Indeed I would like to play a character from a completely different social or ethnic background as long as this is treated as neither non-existent nor the character's defining characteristic (i.e. stereotyping).
As a guy I also have no problem with playing female characters. It's not like I pretend to be this or that guy I play. I know they're not me. That makes it fun to begin with. For me it's all about taking a peek at a whole new and different world or situations and if you change the characters to something you don't encounter each Monday that helps of course as long as it's not so over-the-top you cannot possibly get along with any of the characters.
That said, I hate it if you can see it a certain character was only introduced for the sake of variety [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TokenMinority] or for the sake of making the same racial conflicts we've seen over and over again. Just because "I don't like you because of your race" is in fact a valid source of racism doesn't mean it's interesting to follow ingame. But I digress.

Darkauthor81 said:
THANK YOU. This is the reason why I barely watch anime anymore.
Apparently you just watch the different kind of anime. If you hear of a show and quickly skim over the plot and see what it's about isn't your thing then don't watch it. Anime can also be like Ghost in the Shell you know. Of course if I decided to watch every episode of the Gundam series I could also declare I don't watch anime anymore because it's just about giant robots.
 

Helmutye

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Sep 5, 2009
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I think one of the main reasons we see so many generic brown-haired youngish white guys as protagonists is because most AAA titles don't actually have lead lead characters. They have neutral icons onto which the players can project themselves. The lead character becomes the player's appendage into the game, the means by which he or she manipulates the world. Do you care about the individual personality of your hand? In many games, the player character has no purpose other than to let the player enter the world. Master Chief is a perfect example of this--I would say that he is not actually a character, since he doesn't really change over the course of the games and his personality traits have pretty much nothing to do with the story whatsoever. He's just there to give the player access to the action, like the spaceship in Asteroids, the tank in Space Invaders, or the cursor in Missile Command.

In most of these games it would probably be incredibly simple to just include a female option--the player character sprite and dialog would be female instead of male. Would the Halo games be any different if Master Chief were female instead of male? I'm actually kind of confused as to why game companies don't do this. There would of course be a slightly increased cost (you'd need two voice actors instead of one, and you'd have to use up memory on another set of audio files and animations), but I would think the increased revenue would make up for it. But game companies have probably already experimented with this and run the numbers, and probably the reason they don't do this is because it's not worth it. If a lead character is nothing more than an avatar of the player, it really doesn't matter enough to bother.

Until the protagonists of more games are actually characters (in the sense that they are a dramatic participant in the story), I think the only differences between male "characters" and female "characters" will be superficial (boobs, booty, and legs as opposed to massive pecs and ripped arms). And until audiences are interested in stories beyond "kill everything that gets in your way," there is no reason to have actual characters. It's a waste of time. After all, do you really care when your in-game persona gets all angsty about the heaps of people he has killed? You yourself certainly don't feel bad, and you probably won't question or rethink the way you're playing the game because of it. And you know damn well that the only way to continue in the game is keep right on killing people! That angst is completely inconsequential, and the game would probably be better if it were removed entirely! Completely inconsequential "character traits" are not actually character traits. They are depth decoys for simpletons.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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Shamus Young said:
Experienced Points: A Male on Females on Female Characters

Shamus would love to see more gender diversity in games.

Read Full Article
Is it just me or have you basically played nothing but FPS games and ultra violent games over the last few years? I know there a couple of examples of other games but the majority are FPS games.


OT: I personally think the problem is not the lack of good female characters in games overall. Basically every female FF character although I can't comment on XIII as I have yet to play it eg Celes, Beatrix, Jessie, Freya, Terra, Yuna Well FFX Yuna, even one from FFXII like Ashe along iwth a multitude of characters in the Fighting/Beat 'Em Up Genre whatever you consider Tekken and Soul series I have heard some call them Beat 'Em ups. The problem is the lack of strong female protagonists and characters in games like Mad World, DMC and Shooters. Very few shooters actually have female characters that fight.