A Moderate Proposal

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Lost In The Void

When in doubt, curl up and cry
Aug 27, 2008
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It is time to look at an ongoing issue in these forums. We must look past the banhammer and past the names with the pretty blue script and acknowledge that the Mods are Users in themselves. They are nothing more than regular posters like you and I, asked by those who power this site to attempt to keep our forums clean. Nothing more; nothing less.

As I have looked into our Forums more and more; I see that we have a more negative view of these Users. An image of a dictator, or a power abusing ass hole have been thrown about as more appropriate views of the Mods. I have come to feel that perhaps it is time to look at the Mods in a different light, perhaps at least let the Mods know what we would like from them. Whether or not they listen is up to them, but at least we can make our views known to them and the User base in general.

First we will need to look at the Mods job at a deeper level. The Mods deal with hundreds of User reports every day. This is on top of any classes, jobs, personal schedules and events that they may attend at any time. You must realize that on top of the 10 seconds it takes us to read a post and report it, translates to them spending 10-20 minutes searching that User?s post history, establishing a worthy cause for action, a history of any Mod wrath they?ve previously had, warnings, post guidelines and why they were cited for Mod action. This ends up being hours of work, everyday for them and this goes, for the most part, thankless from the primary User base.

In fact, the User base sometimes has been seen to go even farther than simple ignoring said Mod?s actions on the community?s behalf. Instead the Mods are met with contempt and hostility and more than one occasion. It is funny that even on the Internet we mock our janitors, for that is what the Mods are. They are in a thankless job, cleaning the trash that spews from the Forums. Why do we act in such hostility when we see, what appears to be a ban for no reason. The reason is we don?t get the context of the situation. Has this User had a past with the Mods? How many times has he been warned by the Mods? Is this the same guy who said that ?All the Christian Fags should just fuckin? die??

Now we come to the point that we call the Mods out on their actions. We make a thread about their evils, or even slip it into an existing thread. Should we first inform them personally of our ire? Instead of posting about ?teh evil Mod Dictators? could we instead PM to ask them why they did said action? Have you ever gone out of your way to PM a mod about said action and been shot down for no reason? Can?t we assume that we are indeed innocent until the Mod proves us guilty?

It is times like these I feel that we need to take a step back and examine the fact that Mods are no different than you or I. They are Users on a site they enjoy frequenting. They have powers, no one denies that, but they are still members of the site. They will still make a mistake, they will perhaps get mad at a post that they dislike immensely, and in rare instances, are perhaps more lenient on friends and family then they should be. This isn?t always the case, much like it isn?t the case that all Mods are dictators hungry for power. Is this fair? I don?t believe so, but I do understand that the Mods are only human. I have seen bans lifted because of a PM to the Mods. Yet, when the Mods do make mistakes that we often forgive ourselves for making, we cannot look past it. We must know that Mods aren?t perfect, much like ourselves. They are simple Users, just like you and me.

The fact remains that we aren?t always easy to please. Every post we report is something we took to heart and were offended by. This then translates to a Mod que that grows by hundreds, if not thousands daily and the Mods are tasked with sifting through these to find something that may not be immediately clear to them. How long can this take? Minutes? Hours? Days? Yet they know they have been tasked to doing it and they continue to, time after time.

There are mistakes on both ends as well, there has been more than one time a User has clicked on a report button by accident. Mods may not see this right away unless we let them know. How many times have we let them know that we, the User base have made a mistake? We take this good they bring and ask for more.

Now we come to the discussion side of this thread. Let pretend that you are a mod. What would you change with that power? What would you do different? What would you keep the same? The final question would be, what question would you ask a mod, if you had the ability to have their undivided attention?

And of course we can?t leave the Mods out of the discussion, so if you are reading this let me ask you a couple questions. Why do you do it? Do you ever find yourself unable to do something for the forums or communities that you would love to do? How would you change the way Moderation is done?
 

arsenicCatnip

New member
Jan 2, 2010
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Honestly, I haven't seen any really unreasonable behavior from the mods. I think that our forum is lucky to have the mods we have... and no matter what, a moderator's job on a forum is a rougher one than most people think.

We should be thanking the mods instead of complaining about them.
 

Banana Phone Man

Elite Member
May 19, 2009
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Did you just change your avatar as mods may now be reading?

I know that people speak badly of mods but I still fail to see what they do that's bad. Actually I fail to see what they do that isn't good. I'm glad that we have the mods we have. Maybe they're a bit harsh but I think that's a good thing. The worst thing would be to have completely soft moderators which let anything slide.

Speaking of mods, if you are reading this Claymorez, you have to remember my cake in just less than 2 months from now.
 

Lost In The Void

When in doubt, curl up and cry
Aug 27, 2008
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Banana Phone Man said:
Did you just change your avatar as mods may now be reading?

I know that people speak badly of mods but I still fail to see what they do that's bad. Actually I fail to see what they do that isn't good. I'm gald that we have the mods we have. Maybe harsh but I think that's a good thing. The worst thing would be to have completely soft moderators which let anything slide.

Speaking of mods, if you are reading this Claymorez, you have to remember my cake in just less than 2 months from now.
That was actually part of the now dead Nuke my Avatar Forum game and thank god for the fact that I didn't need that avatar anymore and as such I changed it. Normally I have a less..generic avatar but it doesn't fit the avatar constraints. I have someone from the Avatar Store working on it. I can see how that would look suspicious though
 

dududf

New member
Aug 31, 2009
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Sometimes they make mistakes and fix it, when they do that I'm happy.


Only thing that makes me pissed off about mods, is if they abuse their power, or don't fix a mistake that has been pointed out. And this applies for all mods, in all mediums.
 

Banana Phone Man

Elite Member
May 19, 2009
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Lost In The Void said:
Banana Phone Man said:
Did you just change your avatar as mods may now be reading?

I know that people speak badly of mods but I still fail to see what they do that's bad. Actually I fail to see what they do that isn't good. I'm gald that we have the mods we have. Maybe harsh but I think that's a good thing. The worst thing would be to have completely soft moderators which let anything slide.

Speaking of mods, if you are reading this Claymorez, you have to remember my cake in just less than 2 months from now.
That was actually part of the now dead Nuke my Avatar Forum game and thank god for the fact that I didn't need that avatar anymore and as such I changed it. Normally I have a less..generic avatar but it doesn't fit the avatar constraints. I have someone from the Avatar Store working on it. I can see how that would look suspicious though
Oh right. to be honest though I like the other avatar. I was a bit weirded out when I looked at your profile only to see that about 2-3 of your friends were using it. I thought it may have been another one of those (scary) Lady Carrey take over moments. Never helps that I recognise people with their avatars so when people start using the same ones I get all confused.

But you were right... you did look suspicious. >.>
 

Riccan

New member
Oct 11, 2009
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Hating a person over the internet for doing something that they are entitled to do is kind of stupid in the first place. I personally do not see a problem with the mods, they keep this place from turning in to a hellhole.
 

EightGaugeHippo

New member
Apr 6, 2010
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I hope more people read this thread.
I think most people get a bad impression of mods from other forums, then think that EVERY mod in EVERY forum is the same.
 

Gigaguy64

Special Zero Unit
Apr 22, 2009
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I completely agree.

My mom is a mod on another site and i get to see first hand the absolute Stupidity they haft to deal with.

I like our mods.
They seam like nice people.
And many of them still actively post which i think is great.

I thank our mods for their hard work.
 

Cynical skeptic

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Apr 19, 2010
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I kinda skimmed, but the problem with attempting to moderate any forum of any real size, who's primary goal is to grow and prosper based upon a generic common thread (video gaming being only a slightly rarer commonality than breathing, these days), is after a certain point, moderation simply becomes the whims of the masses. One person reports something, likely nothing important. A hundred people report something all at once, well thats an extreme problem that must be dealt with instantly. So comments that may've slipped by if uttered by another, are met with harsh punishments.

Theres also that whole "trolling," thing. A moderatorial offense that can't be easily defined or proven. That operates exclusively on suspicion but by definition requires one experience an emotional state that, also, can't be proven in this context. Then, once you start actively attempting to eradicate this behavior, The line between blunt opinion and intentional inflammation simply vanishes.

Personally, I'll always believe the internet should be above etiquette. Since lowering yourself to anger simply puts you in the wrong, especially in a format where intimidation is simply not possible, we should be above trolling and getting trolled. It should operate on ideas alone. Moderators should be little more than janitors, cleaning up the occasional whoopsies of the grown-children the forum attempts to lure in.

But fuck all that, lets post the same goddamn image macros over and over again. I love lolcats.
 

Zirat

New member
May 16, 2009
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You know, when I first came here I was expecting something about eating Irish Babies. So your first strike should be with false advertising

But yes, the mod's are only people trying to keep this site clean. Some are overzealous in there work, some are quite level headed, as you said: They are only User's like us.
 

Lost In The Void

When in doubt, curl up and cry
Aug 27, 2008
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Zirat said:
You know, when I first came here I was expecting something about eating Irish Babies. So your first strike should be with false advertising
Alright in that regard I need to shake your hand sir for picking up on that obscure reference. Good show sir, good show indeed.
 

maddawg IAJI

I prefer the term "Zomguard"
Feb 12, 2009
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Cynical skeptic said:
I kinda skimmed, but the problem with attempting to moderate any forum of any real size, who's primary goal is to grow and prosper based upon a generic common thread (video gaming being only a slightly rarer commonality than breathing, these days), is after a certain point, moderation simply becomes the whims of the masses. One person reports something, likely nothing important. A hundred people report something all at once, well thats an extreme problem that must be dealt with instantly. So comments that may've slipped by if uttered by another, are met with harsh punishments.

Theres also that whole "trolling," thing. A moderatorial offense that can't be easily defined or proven. That operates exclusively on suspicion but by definition requires one experience an emotional state that, also, can't be proven in this context. Then, once you start actively attempting to eradicate this behavior, The line between blunt opinion and intentional inflammation simply vanishes.

Personally, I'll always believe the internet should be above etiquette. Since lowering yourself to anger simply puts you in the wrong, especially in a format where intimidation is simply not possible, we should be above trolling and getting trolled. It should operate on ideas alone. Moderators should be little more than janitors, cleaning up the occasional whoopsies of the grown-children the forum attempts to lure in.

But fuck all that, lets post the same goddamn image macros over and over again. I love lolcats.
The mods don't work like that. The mods decide what is right and what punishment best fits the crime. If you and your friends are reporting a guy none stop in hopes to get him trouble, he will only be punished if he broke one of the rules specified in the forum guidelines.

Once again, you're over analyzing the mod's actions. They don't ban or punish a user for a simple opinion, however, if that person made said opinion in hopes of attracting attention and to spark a flamewar, that is trolling and WILL be dealt with.

You're wishing for a lot more then is to be expected of the common user. The internet is mostly inhabited by teenagers and young adults, as such, you can expect immaturity. All communities need laws and a force to enforce those laws. I think the common man should be above violence in this world, but that doesn't mean violence will not occur.

Finally
You can love your Lolcats all you want...just keep them out of here, I can't stand the little vermin.
 

Necator15

New member
Jan 1, 2010
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I would like to start by mentioning that I came into this thread expecting something about eating babies. I am slightly disappointed the topic doesn't include that.

Anyway, on the topic of mods, I actually haven't really seen anything negative said about them, excepting what you rarely see when a user makes another name and tries to ***** about how their banning was obviously unjust. They perform a very necessary and often thankless job to make out community better. I don't see why people would complain about them.
 

LordWalter

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Sep 19, 2009
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Mods, I love you and each and every one of your policies. Hell, if anything, I think you should be stricter. Thank you for all the work you do and thank you to Lost in the Void for writing about this topic.
 

Sporky111

Digital Wizard
Dec 17, 2008
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Good thread, thank you.

This hate on the mods always bothers me. You know what? If you don't push the limits and you obey the rules, you won't have a run-in with them. It's as simple as that.

Complaints like these make me think of all the rednecks in this community I live in. They break the law constantly, thinking they can get away with it because the police is so rarely around, and then when they actually do get in trouble it's the police that's at fault.

Yes, mods can make mistakes just as easily as police officers, but calling them all Dirty Pigs for enforcing the rules is just stupid. Grow up and accept responsibility, because if you follow the rules they won't give you a second look.
 

iLikeHippos

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Jan 19, 2010
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When I host a game in Warcraft III, I usually have to act like that of a Moderator.
If someone says "knUb73 is being a noob" I have to check it out, for what else can I do? I am responsible for the game and the persons playing it.
I am quite experienced on how they have it, as I have kicked people that I've later got whispers from saying "why ddi u kick him+" "?" from persons in-game or the person being the latter.

Most of the times I just don't host or let someone else take my place in order to just escape from that fucking exhausting position of power.
But, in difference from the Mods, I get thanks every now and than for kicking the shit out of an apparent asshole that's been warned two times.
Not that I know if Mods themselves actually get a thanks from the users on the forums... Perhaps because we often don't get to know just WHO is banning/suspending/probating [USER].
... And they get paid, do they not? I can't think why else you'd want to do it.

Anyways, as long as you are being paid for it, you're not owed a thanks. Not at all. But it is very courteous to show your appreciation.
 

Arachon

New member
Jun 23, 2008
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Personally, I am very happy with the mods on this site... Mostly. There have been isolated incidents where I feel that a mod has gone sort of out of line, but it doesn't happen often, and is usually dealt with in an appropriate way. I remember some of the mods (Red Guards) from when they were normal users, so I know that there is a perfectly normal (ok... maybe not normal... but you get my meaning) under there.

To be completely honest though, whilst many users have said that the mods have grown "mad with power" or "dictatorlike", personally I feel like they've been slacking a bit, if I were a mod, I would not only ban or suspend trolls, flamers and the like, but I'd do something about threads without discussion values, list threads (i.e. "What's your favourite x", "Post your favourite lolcat" etc.), and vs threads.
 

Cynical skeptic

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Apr 19, 2010
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maddawg IAJI said:
The mods don't work like that. The mods decide what is right and what punishment best fits the crime. If you and your friends are reporting a guy none stop in hopes to get him trouble, he will only be punished if he broke one of the rules specified in the forum guidelines.

Once again, you're over analyzing the mod's actions. They don't ban or punish a user for a simple opinion, however, if that person made said opinion in hopes of attracting attention and to spark a flamewar, that is trolling and WILL be dealt with.

You're wishing for a lot more then is to be expected of the common user. The internet is mostly inhabited by teenagers and young adults, as such, you can expect immaturity. All communities need laws and a force to enforce those laws. I think the common man should be above violence in this world, but that doesn't mean violence will not occur.

Finally
You can love your Lolcats all you want...just keep them out of here, I can't stand the little vermin.
The problem is the only way the moderators know an infarction has taken place is that little report button.

The immaturity you cynically alluded to (which is a particular type that rubs me the wrong way), means every post gets reported at least once. Every single one. This one, that one, every one. Which means the vast majority of "reports" become little more than white noise actual infarctions must rise above. Which means, combined with a community demographic, moderator action becomes determined by "popularity."

Also, the problem with cynically expecting immaturity from anyone is you cannot expect something without automatically generating a level of tolerance for it. Its not so far as the simple act of prediction enables excuse, but something like genocide is only a horror when no one expects it. Its only a crime against humanity when it appears from the blue. Suicides aren't reported by the media because they're not news. As much as it shames me, yes, I am pretty much quoting the villain's rant from that superhero movie that was so popular a couple years ago... but that wasn't exactly on purpose.

Anyway, I was never that immature and that level of immaturity was never tolerated of me. Some people just need a good slap upside the head. Damned kids, on my lawn. *shakes cane*