A new Star Wars happened, and opinions are released upon us like nibbling hounds demanding biscuits

[RJ 17]

Spoiler

I disagree. You're in military force. You have a plan. That plan depends on the enemy not knowing what that plan is. What's your clearance going to be? "Need to know basis". Heck, Poe even drops that line about his own plan, so it's clearly a thing in the Resistance. Why wouldn't it be in effect for such a move?

Spoiler

Poe says that about his own plan because he knows he'll get in trouble if the higher ups find out about it and likely try to stop them. If the higher ups tell their subordinates about the official plan then it removes the need for Poe to even enact his plan. He just got a lecture about doing what he was told and following orders...well now he doesn't have any orders to go on and as such has good reason to believe that the higher ups have no idea what to do.

Also: she doesn't even pull rank or clearance on him, she just gives some platitude about "Leia would say to have hope and keep the faith." You say it's because it's on a need to know basis, I call it crappy communication from a commander. If Leia was still in charge, you could maybe get a pass in this regard, but when she's out of commission and someone new takes charge, you kinda want to hear "Now we have a plan moving forward to get us out of this situation. Everyone just remain calm and trust us, we'll get you all to safety." Even something as vague as that would have been fine. Poe might have still gone off half-cocked, but at least she'd have indicated that they already had a course of action to move forward with. Instead we get "Hope for hope that's worth hoping for to get the hope to hope for another hopeful day. Now everyone get back to your posts."

Uh-uh, I don't buy this "need to know basis" crap, because she never says her plan is on a need to know basis. Poe straight-up asks her what the plan is and that's when she simply invokes Leia's words to get him to stfu. A commanding officer should know how to handle her subordinates. She knew from the moment she met Poe what kind of person he is, she even says "I know how to handle people like that." All she would have to do is pull him aside and say "Look Poe, I need you to work with me on this. We're approaching a planet that has an old Rebel base on it. When we pass by it, we'll evacuate on shuttles that have been outfitted with technology that will prevent them from showing up on the First Order's scanners. The cruiser keeps going, luring the First Order away and we'll be safe on this planet. The men look up to you, so I need you to help keep them in line so that we can pull this off." Considering the talking-to that Leia gave him earlier, I can only imagine he'd go along with this. Why? Because now he knows that they have a plan and one that can work, there's no reason to send Finn and Rose off on a sidequest now. But no, she doesn't tell him...because apparently she doesn't know how to handle hot-headed flyboys like him. If she did, she'd have known that he was going to go off and do something stupid and jeopardize the mission...which he did, even to the point of staging a mutiny because he had no confidence that his commanding officer had any idea what she was doing. What could possibly make him think that?
The fact that she didn't bother to tell him - or anyone - what she was doing.

Even at the very last minute when they're passing the planet and loading everyone onto shuttles and he accuses her of treason for loading everyone onto unarmed and unshielded shuttles, all she'd have to say is "These shuttles have been modified so that they won't appear on scanners. The cruiser will be the decoy while we all make a break for the ship." But no, she just stands there and says "I hope you know what you're doing" in the face of a mutiny.

My friend, it's one of two things: a terrible commander that has no idea how to keep her subordinates in line despite specifically saying that she could, or bad writing because they needed some way to get Finn and Rose off on their sidequest and simply having the commanding officer withhold the plan - or even the notion that they had a plan - was the only way they could accomplish this. Take your pick. :^)

 

[Dansen]

This movie is fucking racist and nobody is talking about it. It's not racist because the people in charge believe in racist rhetoric, but rather they are so cynical about their audience that they have to write in a minority love interest for the black male lead, just so that a white woman doesn't have to kiss him. Its so fucked up. Disney makes this big show of having Star Wars be all inclusive to all races and genders, but heaven forbid a black man kisses a white woman on the lips. They are all for "equality(tm)", but when it actually matters, a relationship between two people they hit the breaks. Fuck Rian Johnson, the movie is horrible. I am done with Disney Star Wars movies for at least the next five films. Can't believe this hack is getting his own trilogy.

Lol calm down

Sorry for for being hyperbolic, but this is an issue that nobody talks about. If they hadn't made this weird half way beginnings of romance between Finn and Rey in TFA, I wouldn't give a fuck. I'm miffed, cause they back pedal and they back pedal HARD in the new movie. In general I found the movie to be unbearable. Lots of neat ideas and cool little moments, but this was the first movie I have seen years that left me so bored that I wanted it to end. Rian is somehow a genius for "deconstructing Star Wars" , but he did such a shitty job of tearing it all down that I no longer care. Congratulations Rian.

 

[The Raw Shark]

I can safely say that as someone who used to advocate for the prequels before, this movie is the reason I now advocate best for the Original Trilogy.

To preface this entire rant, I thought Rose was abnormally cute and you can all fight me on that.

First off, fuck off with that talk about Luke being some all-knowing perfectly capable God among protags, kid literally gets his shit pushed in compared to the rest of the cast for the first two movies, Death Star aside. Especially considering he was the most hesitant about the Jedi thing in the first place because of the way Yoda and Obi-Wan got on his ass. I completely forgot that they were being stooges and insisting for some sort of 2edgy4me ending without any hope for redemption in the mix.

Was it corny and sometimes contrived? Yes, but I could believe his development and his progression to finally becoming one of the last Jedi Knights in the galaxy, and choosing to go his own way from what his masters taught him.

I know it's Star Wars and everything and the morality can get pretty damn iffy, but I can get in to Luke being jaded about how the Jedi were, and how everything ended up coming down pretty badly. I thought the Jedi were always a bunch of overrated asswipes that were mainly just good for keeping Space Nazis off the galaxy's back, and even in the Original Trilogy it's pretty clear that Luke doesn't wholeheartedly agree with how they handle things. That's what made me appreciate Luke a lot, he came to a reasonable and in my opinion, far more justifiable viewpoint for the force and how the galaxy should go. After everything he's seen and learned, everything he's experienced, if he told me that the force in general wasn't working out for anyone and that this crap needed to end I'd say seen me the hell up.

Spoiler: That being said, I dont like what they did him OR Leia for that matter, so here's my spoiler talk on that

So Luke just suddenly up and abandons his morals entirely? I get that he isn't as stupid powerful as Rey wants him to be in some regards but is he really going to ignore all that innocent life at stake if he ignores all of this? The same guy who defied his ghost mentors in their views that he couldn't try to save his father as well as stop the emperor, and then actually manages to get through to the guy? And that he'd try to kill his own family over fear?! What the fuck happened to the entire fucking original trilogy?! All that development for by far the cheapest excuse for a heel-turn ever?!
I don't care how much time passed between the trilogies that's still a load of crap to see after all the emotions that went in to his personality before he had that green lightsaber. Or are we just telling people that they should feel free to be as week-willed as they want after a certain point?

And then there's Leia. How did one of the most direct and level-headed character from the og trilogy end up hiring a secretive jackass like Holdo? Get that "secretive I have a plan no totally trust me guys I know what I'm doing" shit out of here. If any of you think that in an abnormally high contingency situation like that where one of your leaders just got spaced (Before Jesus-ing her way back in but that's a whole other weird talk) and your entire crew is literally on the brink of fucking imploding that it's a GOOD idea to NOT FUCKING TELL ANYONE WHAT'S GOING ON, you are actually a fucking charity case in pre-production. They aren't a bunch of basic ***** Mean Girl style jerk-offs in highschool organizing themselves around cliques and popularity for the sake of leading the next Pep Rally, YOU ARE AT WAR YOU ANOREXIC BARNEY THE DINOSAUR LOOKING IMBECILE. I highly doubt Poe would even have BOTHERED with that mutiny if she wasn't being such a secretive jackass. AND WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T LEIA GET ON BOTH THEIR CASES WHEN SHE CAME BACK?! IF THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY SHE WOULD ALREADY BE HALFWAY THROUGH CHEWING OUT HOLDO AND HALF THE SHIP FOR INCOMPETENCY And don't get me wrong, Poe is also wrong there, he would have most definitely screwed things even worse if he was left in charge, BUT WHY NOT AT LEAST TELL HIM SO HE DOESN'T GET IT IN HIS HEAD TO DO SOMETHING SO STUPID IN THE FIRST PLACE?!

I know this is more of a Holdo rant than a Leia one, but my point still stands. Leia was a badass to me because she cut the unnecessary chatter and preferred being on point, hell when Vader captures her she's lying to him AND getting on his case at the same time. She's my ideal diplomat and general but instead she's a freaking Golden Girls tribute here.

While Rey doesn't piss me off AS MUCH as it does a lot of people, she does still get on my nerves because I was hoping they'd be more nuanced with her this time around.

And no, you absolute god damn babies it's NOT because she's a woman.

She could've been some ripped 20 year old Disney Highschool Drama Bro with the biggest screw-off Aryan chin in the world and I still would've been angry about the character.

Now I will also say that I'm going to wait and see what Episode IX does with her, because I actually thinks she was way better here than in The Force Awakens.

But as a general take, she just feels like she doesn't even do much of anything. Rose and Finn do something, Leia does something, Luke does something, Han does something by retrospective of being dead and that messing with Kylo does plenty.

Rey just feels like the same plot device that people accuse Luke of being without any of the bare minimum humanity. It's all either constipated looking frustration at something or other, or she's being nice because the script is asking her to.

Maybe if SHE was more reluctant about the whole thing and Finn be the one that commits more it would make a lot more sense. Finn wants to do right by the people that he wronged while he was a stormtrooper, Rey just wants to figure things out for herself and get answers.

This way Finn gets to learn his own lessons about being too eager to help and Rey learns better about working with people.

But it's always Finn that's being the comic relief that's always holding back on being a hero while Rey doesn't get anything that would compliment her background. She just up and suddenly does things that would feel good if they were details in the later films, but these new movies just blow their damn loads as immediately as possible.

And the entire situation with the empire is a mess that gives me a headache when I think about it so I'm not gonna go in to why I hate how they handled Snoke and Ben here.

So in summary:

Stop trying to make Luke edgy.
Stop making Leia a more geriatric Dumbledore
Stop mixing up all of the character's intended personalities
And for the love of god GIVE Rey a personality.

 

[Jamcie Kerbizz]

no plots or character development is really moved forward in any meaningful fashion in this movie

It is totally fine to not like the movie, but you don't need to exaggerate/lie about what it does. If there's one thing TLJ does, it is provide character development. All of the four new main cast (Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo) get a clear arc in this movie and resolve it neatly with some character growth:

Rey: Learns that her heritage is unimportant and stops trying to find surrogate parents to cling to.
Finn: Gets to see the logical end point of his "I don't want to get involved"-stance and realizes he does not want to become like DJ, thus galvanizing him to take a stand against the First Order.
Poe: Has to face the realization that winning the battle is not winning the war and has to come to terms with following orders and trusting others to do what's right, instead of rushing off to do his own thing.
Kylo: Stops trying to mimic Vader, realizes that Snoke is manipulating him and resolves to reshape the galaxy to his own ideals.

Whether these arcs and plots are any good can be discussed, but they are undoubtedly there.

Well more than anything, Your compiled list, supports my opinion no plots or character development is really moved forward in any meaningful fashion.
Thank You I suppose(?) would be appropriate here.

 

[Jamcie Kerbizz]

This movie is fucking racist and nobody is talking about it. It's not racist because the people in charge believe in racist rhetoric, but rather they are so cynical about their audience that they have to write in a minority love interest for the black male lead, just so that a white woman doesn't have to kiss him. Its so fucked up. Disney makes this big show of having Star Wars be all inclusive to all races and genders, but heaven forbid a black man kisses a white woman on the lips. They are all for "equality(tm)", but when it actually matters, a relationship between two people they hit the breaks. Fuck Rian Johnson, the movie is horrible. I am done with Disney Star Wars movies for at least the next five films. Can't believe this hack is getting his own trilogy.

Lol calm down

Sorry for for being hyperbolic, but this is an issue that nobody talks about. If they hadn't made this weird half way beginnings of romance between Finn and Rey in TFA, I wouldn't give a fuck. I'm miffed, cause they back pedal and they back pedal HARD in the new movie. In general I found the movie to be unbearable. Lots of neat ideas and cool little moments, but this was the first movie I have seen years that left me so bored that I wanted it to end. Rian is somehow a genius for "deconstructing Star Wars" , but he did such a shitty job of tearing it all down that I no longer care. Congratulations Rian.

Nobody talks about it because it's non-issue. Johnson pretty much boned Abrams on EVERY developing, open ended 'plot' from TFA. Digging for racism in this is schizophrenic (you need to take off your race goggles). It's just one director giving another a finger and saying, nope, you will NOT control my movie. Finn now will have a relationship with that chick I dropped in few hours ago into MY movie. To be honest it's a lost opportunity either way. They could have introduced interspecies romantic relationship, with Twi, Zabrak, Cathar or a Wookie. They literally have entire galaxy of opportunities and they go for human on human shtick yet again.

 

[Kyrian007]

Nope, Luke trained in a T-16, an atmospheric ship not a combat starship. Rey had obviously been allowed on the Falcon considering how much she knew about how much was wrong with it. She obviously wanted to fly ships and obsessed over it... again much like Luke. Luke drove an airspeeder well, it was shown in the movie Rey had an airspeeder... not really seeing much difference. And Vader... Kylo Ren is no Vader. A half trained, conflicted and confused emo Vader maybe. Who had just been shot with a freaking bowcaster which the movie shows blasting stormtroopers 30 feet through the air, yet Kylo just tanks it so I'm sure he's far from at his best. It just didn't seem like much of an issue to me. No different than any "chosen one" story really. And the online response seemed very different than most others... where the protagonist is male. Just calling it like I see it.

I know the T-16 is atmospheric, but again, the movie goes to lengths as soon as Luke meets Ben that he's a good pilot. Ben says so, Luke tells Han, Biggs tells Red Leader, and at the end, we see that pay off, and even then, Luke still needs help to make the shot.

Needs help from a skill he's practiced with for less than 24 hours or so. Just like Rey does with her jedi powers?

Likewise, one can infer that he does have enough time to train in an X-Wing (an EU novel does confirm as such). Rey, novelization aside, hasn't been built up as a pilot prior to this point, has likely never flown anything before except her speeder (which isn't aerodynamic at all), and does so expertly.

So its ok to look to a novel for Luke, but not Rey? Why are we giving him more of a benefit of the doubt? Seems like a potential bias there (for whatever reason)

As for Kylo Ren, sure, he took a bowcaster bolt to the stomach, but even so, while he's hampered physically, he has far more training than Rey. The she wins against him kind of undermines him as a future villain.

Yeah, its not as if the movie establishes she has plenty of melee weapon fighting experience by showing a scene where she wallops 2 guys who got the drop on her while at the same time showing how much Kylo has suffered by showing a NON-FORCE SENSETIVE fighter get a touch in on him in a fight just prior to his and Rey's. And now we know

Spoiler

there is possibly a mind link between the two confusing Kylo and possibly letting Rey intuit his moves?

Again, not saying she doesn't display exceptional powers... but trying to say that she is "more" of an overpowered "mary sue" than Luke is kind of ignoring the fact that her character is intentionally a direct parallel TO Luke. Any small amount of variation in favor of the new character is easily explained away by sequel's perfectly natural inclination to "up the stakes."

 

[Zetatrain]

Again, not saying she doesn't display exceptional powers... but trying to say that she is "more" of an overpowered "mary sue" than Luke is kind of ignoring the fact that her character is intentionally a direct parallel TO Luke. Any small amount of variation in favor of the new character is easily explained away by sequel's perfectly natural inclination to "up the stakes."

Except that Luke is the Son of the Choosen One. He supposedly has similar latent potential like Anakin did, Leia likewise.

So, you kinda can't explain Luke that way and then present Rey pulling off more incredible feats without any explanation and then be surprised when she's called a Mary Sue, especially not in our current Zeitgeist where she absolutely could be one for the purpose of pandering to Feminists.

True, but wouldn't Anakin fall into the same category as Rey?
If so then Rey would not be the first force user we've seen in the movies who possesses great force potential despite coming from a non force user background.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Again, not saying she doesn't display exceptional powers... but trying to say that she is "more" of an overpowered "mary sue" than Luke is kind of ignoring the fact that her character is intentionally a direct parallel TO Luke. Any small amount of variation in favor of the new character is easily explained away by sequel's perfectly natural inclination to "up the stakes."

Except that Luke is the Son of the Choosen One. He supposedly has similar latent potential like Anakin did, Leia likewise.

So, you kinda can't explain Luke that way and then present Rey pulling off more incredible feats without any explanation and then be surprised when she's called a Mary Sue, especially not in our current Zeitgeist where she absolutely could be one for the purpose of pandering to Feminists.

True, but wouldn't Anakin fall into the same category as Rey?
If so then Rey would not be the first force user we've seen in the movies who possesses great force potential despite coming from a non force user background.

Spoiler

If you take the old E.U. as gosple, Anakin was, unknowingly, created by Darth Plagueis through his experimentation with the Force to create life and to become immortal.

 

[Jamcie Kerbizz]

Again, not saying she doesn't display exceptional powers... but trying to say that she is "more" of an overpowered "mary sue" than Luke is kind of ignoring the fact that her character is intentionally a direct parallel TO Luke. Any small amount of variation in favor of the new character is easily explained away by sequel's perfectly natural inclination to "up the stakes."

Except that Luke is the Son of the Choosen One. He supposedly has similar latent potential like Anakin did, Leia likewise.

So, you kinda can't explain Luke that way and then present Rey pulling off more incredible feats without any explanation and then be surprised when she's called a Mary Sue, especially not in our current Zeitgeist where she absolutely could be one for the purpose of pandering to Feminists.

True, but wouldn't Anakin fall into the same category as Rey?
If so then Rey would not be the first force user we've seen in the movies who possesses great force potential despite coming from a non force user background.

Oh yeah, numerous 'chosen ones'. Logical continuation to mass 'lone riders' and 'dune submarines' migarations.

 

[Kyrian007]

Again, not saying she doesn't display exceptional powers... but trying to say that she is "more" of an overpowered "mary sue" than Luke is kind of ignoring the fact that her character is intentionally a direct parallel TO Luke. Any small amount of variation in favor of the new character is easily explained away by sequel's perfectly natural inclination to "up the stakes."

Except that Luke is the Son of the Choosen One. He supposedly has similar latent potential like Anakin did, Leia likewise.

So, you kinda can't explain Luke that way and then present Rey pulling off more incredible feats without any explanation and then be surprised when she's called a Mary Sue, especially not in our current Zeitgeist where she absolutely could be one for the purpose of pandering to Feminists.

And there it is. So it wouldn't be a problem "in the current Zeitgeist" if the character was Ray and male? And suddenly we're back to it being a problem because of gender, and not because of how the character was written.

And yes, she has similar potential. That's the exact point of the subtext of how parallel the similarities are between Anakin, his son, and Rey. That SAME SUBTEXT that was subverted in The Last Jedi.

 

[Sonmi]

True, but wouldn't Anakin fall into the same category as Rey?

If so then Rey would not be the first force user we've seen in the movies who possesses great force potential despite coming from a non force user background.

To be fair, Anakin has the whole prophecy thing, as well as the EU explanation of literally being Space Jesus created by Plagueis and Sidious. He also ends up being a creepy, obsessed (slightly rapey), multiple times genocidal asshole, quite a far cry from the perpetual righteousness of Rey.

I understand that the accusation of "Sue" gets thrown around willy nilly at competent female characters nowadays, and is used in this childish culture conflict between Western conservatives/reactionaries and progressives to "score points", hell - my personal favourite fictional character Daenerys gets constantly unfairly accused of Sueishness, but let's be real, I struggle to see how Rey is anything but now that all of JJ's set-ups (including Phasma, who could have been an interesting, intimidating female villain, but ended up a complete joke two movies in a row) have been completely brushed aside by Johnson.

Unless they reuse the whole Luuke hand-clone plotline from the former EU or she gets some seriously needed character development in Episode 9, I think that'll stay my opinion. I was severely disappointed by the lack of direction the sequel trilogy seems to have at this point, I daresay TLJ might even be worse than Rogue One at this point. (Still not Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones levels of bad though)

That being said, Laura Dern was easily the best character of the movie.

 

[Sonmi]

So, you kinda can't explain Luke that way and then present Rey pulling off more incredible feats without any explanation and then be surprised when she's called a Mary Sue, especially not in our current Zeitgeist where she absolutely could be one for the purpose of pandering to Feminists.

And there it is. So it wouldn't be a problem "in the current Zeitgeist" if the character was Ray and male? And suddenly we're back to it being a problem because of gender, and not because of how the character was written.[/quote]

It would still be a problem, it's not like people don't complain about Jon Snows and Wesley Crushers when they infect the media they appear in.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

True, but wouldn't Anakin fall into the same category as Rey?

If so then Rey would not be the first force user we've seen in the movies who possesses great force potential despite coming from a non force user background.

my personal favourite fictional character Daenerys gets constantly unfairly accused of Sueishness

Dany is FAR from being a Mary Sue than Rey is and Dany says it right out of her mouth in Season 7 no less:

https://youtu.be/mk1DXwb-XbM?t=5m15s

 

[Dazzle Novak]

Mary Sue is a fanfiction term describing a new character's relation to an established work. It's kind of silly to judge classic characters or characters who've been in a work from jump this way whether they're over-powered wank fantasies or not.

The way these new movies mush together the meta-narrative with the narrative-narrative by literally having the protagonist and antagonist's primary motivation be literally wanting to be like the old characters is a large source of this criticism I feel. It's fan fic-y as fuck and compounded by the modern trope of "No training required." Mocked as they are, "Rocky Montages" at least feint toward the idea that greatness requires hard work and the OT made this gesture no matter how much new fans want to retcon Luke as being a superstud from jump. In nu-Star Trek (I'll let you spot the common denominator), Kirk becomes captain simply because it's his destiny and everyone ranked higher than him dies or recuses themselves and Rey is simple born with tons of force potential. I don't see how being born with your power over 9000 is any less genetic destiny/more populist than needing to be a Skywalker. I guess you don't need to become a space monk to do cool space monk shit. How convenient.

 

[Hawki]

Finn now will have a relationship with that chick I dropped in few hours ago into MY movie.

We sure? Seems like Rey, Finn, Rose, and Poe are now in some kind of love rectangle.

Shippers, take your bets!

Needs help from a skill he's practiced with for less than 24 hours or so. Just like Rey does with her jedi powers?

Luke's been a pilot long before the X-Wing, Rey hasn't had the same level of practice. Force-wise, Luke does use the Force, but it's so minor compared to Rey's feats. The equivalent would be Luke running over to Vader after Ben's 'death' and defeating him then and there.

So its ok to look to a novel for Luke, but not Rey? Why are we giving him more of a benefit of the doubt? Seems like a potential bias there (for whatever reason)

No, I didn't say that, I just highlighted that EU material accounts for both. The difference is that I feel A New Hope stands on its own better than TFA, in that, again, Luke's skill as a pilot is mentioned over and over again before he ever climbs into the X-Wing. Rey's abilities as a pilot are never mentioned once before she climbs into the Falcon. One can reasonably infer that Luke had some time to train on Yavin as well, while there's no reason to infer that Rey ever got to play around in the Falcon on Jakku, given that she's basically indendtured.

Yeah, its not as if the movie establishes she has plenty of melee weapon fighting experience by showing a scene where she wallops 2 guys who got the drop on her

A staff, not a lightsaber.

(On that note, am I the only one who thinks it would be appropriate for Rey to get a double-bladed lightsaber like Maul? She's seen with a staff reguarly, it would suit her fighting style better and give her a sense of identity.)

while at the same time showing how much Kylo has suffered by showing a NON-FORCE SENSETIVE fighter get a touch in on him in a fight just prior to his and Rey's. And now we know

Spoiler

there is possibly a mind link between the two confusing Kylo and possibly letting Rey intuit his moves?

Doesn't Snoke create the mind link? It seems to linger, but I thought it was mostly on him.

 

[Kyrian007]

Needs help from a skill he's practiced with for less than 24 hours or so. Just like Rey does with her jedi powers?

Luke's been a pilot long before the X-Wing, Rey hasn't had the same level of practice. Force-wise, Luke does use the Force, but it's so minor compared to Rey's feats. The equivalent would be Luke running over to Vader after Ben's 'death' and defeating him then and there.

I wasn't talking about piloting (we'll just have to disagree on that, the novels say Luke trained on an x-wing, a novel says Rey did simulations, they both practice on airspeeders... I just don't see the difference) I was talking about having to use the force, something he knew nothing about until a day or so before, to bypass a computer targeting system that couldn't hit a 2 meter target at-speed.

Yeah, its not as if the movie establishes she has plenty of melee weapon fighting experience by showing a scene where she wallops 2 guys who got the drop on her

A staff, not a lightsaber.

(On that note, am I the only one who thinks it would be appropriate for Rey to get a double-bladed lightsaber like Maul? She's seen with a staff reguarly, it would suit her fighting style better and give her a sense of identity.)

Ehh, she's a fighter. It's close enough to realistically beat a wounded Vader wannabe. And I agree, a double blader would be cool and would fit in with the "doing away with the past" subtext of The Last Jedi.

while at the same time showing how much Kylo has suffered by showing a NON-FORCE SENSETIVE fighter get a touch in on him in a fight just prior to his and Rey's. And now we know

Spoiler

there is possibly a mind link between the two confusing Kylo and possibly letting Rey intuit his moves?

Doesn't Snoke create the mind link? It seems to linger, but I thought it was mostly on him.

Spoiler

Yes he did, but we don't know when. It really could be any time after he noticed the "awakening in the force" which means it could have happened before Rey and Kylo's duel.

 

[Kyrian007]

And there it is. So it wouldn't be a problem "in the current Zeitgeist" if the character was Ray and male? And suddenly we're back to it being a problem because of gender, and not because of how the character was written.

It would still be a problem, it's not like people don't complain about Jon Snows and Wesley Crushers when they infect the media they appear in.

Well, with Wesley Crusher it isn't the same at all. Wesley was used as a Deus Ex Machina several times... becoming a (admitted by the writers) writer's crutch before anyone started caring or complaining about it. But Rey has the audacity to be good at stuff... and a girl, and the second the movie is over the redpillers are crying all over the internet about how "mary sue" she is.

Jon Snow? I only read the books, and I don't see much parallel there. Of course in the books he's still dead, and has screwed up easily as much as lucked into a couple of wins.