A Perfect People, A Perfect World, or; The Eugenics Movement

[Tselis]

I feel I should start by saying that I'm bi-polar... but at the same time... I don't WANT kids. It has nothing to do with my genetics... I just don't feel I could raise kids properly and I'm not a fan of the little shitlins to begin with...

On the other hand... I'm bi-polar, and I function. I'm not medicated, and I function. Many diseases and disorders don't stop people from being productive.

It's a problem only when you let it become a problem.

I envy you. I'm Bipolar and it requires 3 different medicines to control the chemical imbalance. Then again, I also have PTSD, chronic depression, anxiety, and audio/visual hallucinations. I need my meds, else I'm functional, but not entirely sane.

 

[lacktheknack]

My sister has... something. We really don't know what (it looks like Autism crossed with Aspergers crossed with bipolar), but it sure wouldn't have been fixed by Eugenics.

You have my sympathies, I know how hard it is to live with, and how wonderful they can be. But, just as a side note. Aspergers is a type of autism. Autism is a spectrum disorder with many different types. It's kind of like cancer. All lung cancers are cancer, not all cancers are lung cancer. It's that type of thing. >.> Just a small side note, to help you understand better. The more you know the better she will be. =D

Thanks. She's the sweetest thing in the world when she's happy...

My middle child has autism, and she's just the most awesome little person ever. She hears everything, whether you think she's listening or not; combine this with an amazing photographic memory and a temporal dissonance in her thing and the fun ensues. My husband and I call her our little magic hat. "You can put anything in, but you never know when you'll get it back out."

I came into this thread expecting to be depressed out of my skull, but now I've got warm fuzzies. Thanks.

You have to understand. I'm a firm believer is relieving the suffering of the millions of have genetic disorders, HOWEVER, I'm not rabid about it. I'll curb stomp anyone how tries to mess with my baby because she's autistic. I'm not saying, "Durr hurr wipe out the stupid people!! Haha!" I'm saying that I love my baby more than anything, all three of them in fact. If there was anything that I could do to make their lives better than I would. That's all I'm really saying, is that I want the world that my children inherit to be better than the one I inherited. If Eugenics could accomplish than, than so be it.

I understand that. But the warm fuzzies come from talking about awesome family members. Even if the subject matter is anything but warm and fuzzy, I'll still take this out of it. So my thanks still stands.

As does the smiley.

 

[InfiniteSingularity]

Once we have this power, it will go further so people will be choosing their child's hair color, eye color, etc. "Perfect children". A "perfect" world. It's an absolutely horrendous idea.

I like the principle of getting rid of hereditary diseases & conditions but lets face it - what's gonna stop people from taking it too far?

A board of either fellow citizens or government officials.

No, I wouldn't trust that. And besides, people will do things without approval either way. I just don't think humanity should have such power.

 

[Tselis]

There is literally a thread on this every week, isn't there? Like some one made a joke about it the other day, it was worth a few chuckles, but I didn't think it was true...

As for my opinion, just like communism, it sounds good until you try it...

I read somewhere that communism works well for up to 14 people, add 1 more and the whole thing breaks down. The basic family unit is formed around communism, and there's nothing wrong with that. Well, now I'm up far past when I should have gone to bed, and am just haunting the forums for shits and grins. At least I still have my oreos.

Oo! Can I have some?!

I have a shrink gun and no qualms about using it. ;.>

Fine, be that way >.>

There are oreos out there for you, you just have to go out and get them, these are mine. I love them and pet them, and pop them in my mouth and crunch. =D

Maybe I will. I think I have some actually.

Mmmm, oreos ...

 

[chaosyoshimage]

There is literally a thread on this every week, isn't there? Like some one made a joke about it the other day, it was worth a few chuckles, but I didn't think it was true...

As for my opinion, just like communism, it sounds good until you try it...

I read somewhere that communism works well for up to 14 people, add 1 more and the whole thing breaks down. The basic family unit is formed around communism, and there's nothing wrong with that. Well, now I'm up far past when I should have gone to bed, and am just haunting the forums for shits and grins. At least I still have my oreos.

Oo! Can I have some?!

I have a shrink gun and no qualms about using it. ;.>

Fine, be that way >.>

There are oreos out there for you, you just have to go out and get them, these are mine. I love them and pet them, and pop them in my mouth and crunch. =D

Not again, I need to stay away from cookies, it's not...not...good for me...

GIMMIE THOSE OREOS!!!@!!111

 

[Tselis]

My sister has... something. We really don't know what (it looks like Autism crossed with Aspergers crossed with bipolar), but it sure wouldn't have been fixed by Eugenics.

You have my sympathies, I know how hard it is to live with, and how wonderful they can be. But, just as a side note. Aspergers is a type of autism. Autism is a spectrum disorder with many different types. It's kind of like cancer. All lung cancers are cancer, not all cancers are lung cancer. It's that type of thing. >.> Just a small side note, to help you understand better. The more you know the better she will be. =D

Thanks. She's the sweetest thing in the world when she's happy...

My middle child has autism, and she's just the most awesome little person ever. She hears everything, whether you think she's listening or not; combine this with an amazing photographic memory and a temporal dissonance in her thing and the fun ensues. My husband and I call her our little magic hat. "You can put anything in, but you never know when you'll get it back out."

=D Well, cool then. I am glad to have brightened your day, even if it is in an small fashion.



I came into this thread expecting to be depressed out of my skull, but now I've got warm fuzzies. Thanks.

You have to understand. I'm a firm believer is relieving the suffering of the millions of have genetic disorders, HOWEVER, I'm not rabid about it. I'll curb stomp anyone how tries to mess with my baby because she's autistic. I'm not saying, "Durr hurr wipe out the stupid people!! Haha!" I'm saying that I love my baby more than anything, all three of them in fact. If there was anything that I could do to make their lives better than I would. That's all I'm really saying, is that I want the world that my children inherit to be better than the one I inherited. If Eugenics could accomplish than, than so be it.

I understand that. But the warm fuzzies come from talking about awesome family members. Even if the subject matter is anything but warm and fuzzy, I'll still take this out of it. So my thanks still stands.

As does the smiley.

 

[Tselis]

There is literally a thread on this every week, isn't there? Like some one made a joke about it the other day, it was worth a few chuckles, but I didn't think it was true...

As for my opinion, just like communism, it sounds good until you try it...

I read somewhere that communism works well for up to 14 people, add 1 more and the whole thing breaks down. The basic family unit is formed around communism, and there's nothing wrong with that. Well, now I'm up far past when I should have gone to bed, and am just haunting the forums for shits and grins. At least I still have my oreos.

Oo! Can I have some?!

I have a shrink gun and no qualms about using it. ;.>

Fine, be that way >.>

There are oreos out there for you, you just have to go out and get them, these are mine. I love them and pet them, and pop them in my mouth and crunch. =D

Not again, I need to stay away from cookies, it's not...not...good for me...

GIMMIE THOSE OREOS!!!@!!111

SHRINK GUN!!!!!!!!

 

[chaosyoshimage]

There is literally a thread on this every week, isn't there? Like some one made a joke about it the other day, it was worth a few chuckles, but I didn't think it was true...

As for my opinion, just like communism, it sounds good until you try it...

I read somewhere that communism works well for up to 14 people, add 1 more and the whole thing breaks down. The basic family unit is formed around communism, and there's nothing wrong with that. Well, now I'm up far past when I should have gone to bed, and am just haunting the forums for shits and grins. At least I still have my oreos.

Oo! Can I have some?!

I have a shrink gun and no qualms about using it. ;.>

Fine, be that way >.>

There are oreos out there for you, you just have to go out and get them, these are mine. I love them and pet them, and pop them in my mouth and crunch. =D

Not again, I need to stay away from cookies, it's not...not...good for me...

GIMMIE THOSE OREOS!!!@!!111

SHRINK GUN!!!!!!!!

A shrink gun won't work on me, for I cannot become a smaller man than I already am...

So, I have your cookies now...

 

[Tselis]

There is literally a thread on this every week, isn't there? Like some one made a joke about it the other day, it was worth a few chuckles, but I didn't think it was true...

As for my opinion, just like communism, it sounds good until you try it...

I read somewhere that communism works well for up to 14 people, add 1 more and the whole thing breaks down. The basic family unit is formed around communism, and there's nothing wrong with that. Well, now I'm up far past when I should have gone to bed, and am just haunting the forums for shits and grins. At least I still have my oreos.

Oo! Can I have some?!

I have a shrink gun and no qualms about using it. ;.>

Fine, be that way >.>

There are oreos out there for you, you just have to go out and get them, these are mine. I love them and pet them, and pop them in my mouth and crunch. =D

Not again, I need to stay away from cookies, it's not...not...good for me...

GIMMIE THOSE OREOS!!!@!!111

SHRINK GUN!!!!!!!!

A shrink gun won't work on me, for I cannot become a smaller man than I already am...

So, I have your cookies now...

1) I already ate them, so, HA!
2) Wow, isn't your boy/girl friend supposed to say that?

 

[conflictofinterests]

Eugenics is the LAST thing we want concerning the health of our species as a whole, as anyone with a cursory knowledge of genetics and evolution knows. Genetic diversity, even as expressed in so called "undesirable" traits is what successful species DO. What's the benefit of that? When the environment changes, the species is more likely to survive, generally as fragment populations with adaptive traits. Perhaps the traits are likely to reduce the viability or even chance of offspring in the first place: Fine. Perhaps the negative attributes of the traits could be negligible in this environment, and potentially beneficial in another.

Diversity is nature's best defense against uncertainty. Why would we want to cripple it?

 

[chaosyoshimage]

There is literally a thread on this every week, isn't there? Like some one made a joke about it the other day, it was worth a few chuckles, but I didn't think it was true...

As for my opinion, just like communism, it sounds good until you try it...

I read somewhere that communism works well for up to 14 people, add 1 more and the whole thing breaks down. The basic family unit is formed around communism, and there's nothing wrong with that. Well, now I'm up far past when I should have gone to bed, and am just haunting the forums for shits and grins. At least I still have my oreos.

Oo! Can I have some?!

I have a shrink gun and no qualms about using it. ;.>

Fine, be that way >.>

There are oreos out there for you, you just have to go out and get them, these are mine. I love them and pet them, and pop them in my mouth and crunch. =D

Not again, I need to stay away from cookies, it's not...not...good for me...

GIMMIE THOSE OREOS!!!@!!111

SHRINK GUN!!!!!!!!

A shrink gun won't work on me, for I cannot become a smaller man than I already am...

So, I have your cookies now...

1) I already ate them, so, HA!
2) Wow, isn't your boy/girl friend supposed to say that?

I totally didn't realize how perverted that sounded until it was too late. Also, if these aren't your cookies than were the devil did they come from?

What was this thread suppose to be about again?

 

[Knusper]

I don't always like slippery slope arguments, but after this, where does it end? I also think it is inhumane. Maybe it should be easily accessible to people who have a 'good' reason to do it?

I don't know :/

 

[Tselis]

There is literally a thread on this every week, isn't there? Like some one made a joke about it the other day, it was worth a few chuckles, but I didn't think it was true...

As for my opinion, just like communism, it sounds good until you try it...

I read somewhere that communism works well for up to 14 people, add 1 more and the whole thing breaks down. The basic family unit is formed around communism, and there's nothing wrong with that. Well, now I'm up far past when I should have gone to bed, and am just haunting the forums for shits and grins. At least I still have my oreos.

Oo! Can I have some?!

I have a shrink gun and no qualms about using it. ;.>

Fine, be that way >.>

There are oreos out there for you, you just have to go out and get them, these are mine. I love them and pet them, and pop them in my mouth and crunch. =D

Not again, I need to stay away from cookies, it's not...not...good for me...

GIMMIE THOSE OREOS!!!@!!111

SHRINK GUN!!!!!!!!

A shrink gun won't work on me, for I cannot become a smaller man than I already am...

So, I have your cookies now...

1) I already ate them, so, HA!
2) Wow, isn't your boy/girl friend supposed to say that?

I totally didn't realize how perverted that sounded until it was too late. Also, if these aren't your cookies than were the devil did they come from?

What was this thread suppose to be about again?

Hmm, I seem to have hijacked the thread. Oops. On the other hand, I'm haviong trouble typing, since I'm lmaughind so harfd.

 

[lowkey_jotunn]

Just a quick thought on the subject: there's another direction to go with the whole "good genes good children" concept.

Instead of eliminating certain people or types from the gene pool, why not promote the breeding of people with "good" genes. It could be through tax benefits, or college grants, or any other way that I can't think of at midnight. As gene therapy and DNA sequencing becomes more commonplace (still a few years off, I think) it should be easy enough for a doctor to examine the parents; "You two are perfect candidates for the awesome-baby scholarship program."

There could be limits or other rules, clauses etc. And there would be no negatives or punishment towards people who don't meet whatever criteria are put in place.

Not a fully fleshed out idea, but just a concept to ponder. Don't punish the "bad," reward the "good"

 

[chaosyoshimage]

There is literally a thread on this every week, isn't there? Like some one made a joke about it the other day, it was worth a few chuckles, but I didn't think it was true...

As for my opinion, just like communism, it sounds good until you try it...

I read somewhere that communism works well for up to 14 people, add 1 more and the whole thing breaks down. The basic family unit is formed around communism, and there's nothing wrong with that. Well, now I'm up far past when I should have gone to bed, and am just haunting the forums for shits and grins. At least I still have my oreos.

Oo! Can I have some?!

I have a shrink gun and no qualms about using it. ;.>

Fine, be that way >.>

There are oreos out there for you, you just have to go out and get them, these are mine. I love them and pet them, and pop them in my mouth and crunch. =D

Not again, I need to stay away from cookies, it's not...not...good for me...

GIMMIE THOSE OREOS!!!@!!111

SHRINK GUN!!!!!!!!

A shrink gun won't work on me, for I cannot become a smaller man than I already am...

So, I have your cookies now...

1) I already ate them, so, HA!
2) Wow, isn't your boy/girl friend supposed to say that?

I totally didn't realize how perverted that sounded until it was too late. Also, if these aren't your cookies than were the devil did they come from?

What was this thread suppose to be about again?

Hmm, I seem to have hijacked the thread. Oops. On the other hand, I'm haviong trouble typing, since I'm lmaughind so harfd.

"haviong" "lmaughind" and "harfd", I don't think you're having trouble typing, that's got to be code for something, it's too suspicous...

That or you typed the Captcha in the wrong place...

 

[BaronUberstein]

So if I understand this correctly, those who are not able to contribute good, solid genes to the next generation are not deemed fit to reproduce. You know what, let's say that you have someone with a family history of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. This is a nasty neurodegenerative disease that can cause muscle control loss to the point of not being able to breathe without assistance, decreased cognitive function, and is fatal with no solid treatment to boot. It makes sense that they shouldn't have kids, right?
Oh wait, doesn't Steven Hawking have that?
Or what about those with mental retardation and bipolar disorder like you said? Take a person with both serious mental impairments and blindness to boot? Why don't you take a look at him play the piano? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_GUPcg25QI
Or what about someone with bipolar disorder? Ask Georg Cantor, who got the Sylvester medal from the Royal Society, which is the highest mathematics honor they can bestow.

It is impossible to determine one's future based on what they are born with and what they can pass down. Each of these people that I have mentioned have made invaluable contributions to their respective fields, which never would have come about if their parents were unable to breed due to a couple of poor genes.

Exactly, the movie Gattaca addresses this exact point in a narrative manner.

The ability to contribute to society is not determined by genetics, and I vote that keeping genetic diversity high is a good idea, because you never know when a disease will come along and you need somebody who just happens to be more resistant.

 

[Tselis]

Just a quick thought on the subject: there's another direction to go with the whole "good genes good children" concept.

Instead of eliminating certain people or types from the gene pool, why not promote the breeding of people with "good" genes. It could be through tax benefits, or college grants, or any other way that I can't think of at midnight. As gene therapy and DNA sequencing becomes more commonplace (still a few years off, I think) it should be easy enough for a doctor to examine the parents; "You two are perfect candidates for the awesome-baby scholarship program."

There could be limits or other rules, clauses etc. And there would be no negatives or punishment towards people who don't meet whatever criteria are put in place.

Not a fully fleshed out idea, but just a concept to ponder. Don't punish the "bad," reward the "good"

That's not a half bad idea. I would extend it to include more talented and gifted individuals, instead of basing scholarships on gender/skin color. I do believe in a meritocracy though.

 

[AperioContra]

Once again I say, the exception, not the rule. How many millions suffer, terribly, who might not need to? You sound like a great person, someone I wouldn't mind knowing, and I'm an anti-social recluse (Bipolar, PTSD, Depression, etc). However, the idea of eliminating the genetic scourges that plague us is one I believe firmly that we must pursue. It must be pursued in an ethical fashion, but it must be pursued none-the-less.

Thank you for your kind words, but if you knew me better I think that you would find them unfounded .

While I agree that many people are suffering and this is certainly a tragedy, many would rather the chance to suffer than not have the chance to enjoy the rest of life. Much great genius has been wrought from many things that Eugenics would fix. Would we have Van Gogh with out depression? Einstein without Aspergers? Socrates without Schizophrenia? Hawkings without Lou Gehrig's? Yes these are all exceptions, but is not the exceptions that make the difference?

Speaking from a strictly human point of view, I would rather face the chance that science will not find an alternative way to cure these diseases. I would rather face suffering, then not have the chance to fight it. If we remove chance from the equation, if we remove all possibility of suffering do we not make life all the more bitter? Do we honestly sacrifice the exception? Will life truly be better without suffering?

 

[Tselis]

There is literally a thread on this every week, isn't there? Like some one made a joke about it the other day, it was worth a few chuckles, but I didn't think it was true...

As for my opinion, just like communism, it sounds good until you try it...

I read somewhere that communism works well for up to 14 people, add 1 more and the whole thing breaks down. The basic family unit is formed around communism, and there's nothing wrong with that. Well, now I'm up far past when I should have gone to bed, and am just haunting the forums for shits and grins. At least I still have my oreos.

Oo! Can I have some?!

I have a shrink gun and no qualms about using it. ;.>

Fine, be that way >.>

There are oreos out there for you, you just have to go out and get them, these are mine. I love them and pet them, and pop them in my mouth and crunch. =D

Not again, I need to stay away from cookies, it's not...not...good for me...

GIMMIE THOSE OREOS!!!@!!111

SHRINK GUN!!!!!!!!

A shrink gun won't work on me, for I cannot become a smaller man than I already am...

So, I have your cookies now...

1) I already ate them, so, HA!
2) Wow, isn't your boy/girl friend supposed to say that?

I totally didn't realize how perverted that sounded until it was too late. Also, if these aren't your cookies than were the devil did they come from?

What was this thread suppose to be about again?

Hmm, I seem to have hijacked the thread. Oops. On the other hand, I'm haviong trouble typing, since I'm lmaughind so harfd.

"haviong" "lmaughind" and "harfd", I don't think you're having trouble typing, that's got to be code for something, it's too suspicous...

That or you typed the Captcha in the wrong place...

No, it's just me being up way too late, with too much stress and too little sleep. I did manage to not snort my oreos though. Crumbs in the sinuses, no good ...

 

[BabyRaptor]

I have Aspergers. I also suffer from PTSD. I'd be an "undesirable."

Go ask my boyfriend what his life would be like if I'd never walked into it. Ask the same of my best friends. They can all be found on here.

Listen to them and ask yourself if you could really justify taking me out of their pictures.

You could put any "unperfect" person in my place.



As for me...No. I couldn't do it.