A Question for all you Global Warming skeptics

[Jatal Khyron]

But my question is thus: You may not believe it's truly happening, but why are you so against preventative measures to stop it happening in the future? Surely you'd agree that to stop it from happening 100 years from now, which is entirely plausible, there should be some preventative measures taken now.

My problem with that philosophy is this:

Let's say you believe that in 20 years, aliens (the evil kind, not the E.T. kind), are going to come invade Earth. You believe this with all your heart. There's no proof, just a series of shoddy research results and unreliable conclusions that it will happen. You spread your beliefs to every corner of creation, getting more people to believe you than you ever thought. They wail "Help us, what can we do to stop this?!?" You have no idea really, just a bunch more theories that happen to dovetail with what's already out there. With the best of intentions, you release what you believe to be the best preventative measures you can think of. You also think "Well, I spend so much time working on this, I need to make money off it to survive." That becomes another philosophy, a way of life. Soon, making money off the crisis becomes just as important as the crisis itself. You don't think it makes you evil, you have the best of intentions. But you know what they say the road to Hell is paved with.
Also, when anyone refutes your ideas, or even comes out with evidence that shoots your theories down, you denigrate them. Not look at the evidence and think "Hmmm, could I have been wrong? Maybe I should recheck my findings." No, you can't do that, for 2 reasons:
1) Your reputation relies on everyone believing you, and
2) Your income relies on your belief.
Given those motivations, you, and anyone else who has hitched their wagon to you, must move Heaven and Earth to not only shout down your critics, but you must condemn them as 'cranks, nuts, and whackos', because you can't risk ANYONE actually listening to them. You are way too invested in this movement not only survivng, but florishing. Because it's what makes you important. Because YOU CARE.

This, in a nutshell, is the Global Warming movement.

Even when the scientists that initially put forth the theories that Global Warming exists were not only proven wrong, but nearly shunned from the scientific community for being caught making up conclusions that happened to fit with their belief systems, still they were lionized. And why? Because they had the 'best of intentions.' Never mind that these same people invested heavily in companies that promoted 'green tech', never mind that when proof that within the last 10 years the global mean temperature has actually REDUCED itself by a degree, those that put forth the agenda at first must stay the course. As in, the media at large. Why? Because their reps are on the line. If they are proven to have thrown in with cranks and be gullible enough to believe their tripe, they would never be trusted again. So they simply must push the agenda to survive.
Same with the Al Gores of the world. Both their reps AND their income (from speaking engagements, investments, etc.) are at stake by pushing Global Warming. Did you know that in the 1970's the idea at the time was that there was Global Cooling, and that we were headed for another Ice Age? It's true, look it up.

The bottom line is, follow the money. That's all this whole Green Movement, Global Warming crap is, a way to make money off the gullible. That's not meant as an insult, but it's how the believers are often looked at by the powers that be. As far as pollution goes, I'm always for reducing it in all forms, as long as it actually helps and doesn't just create meaningless jobs doing a meaningless job, like recycling (for the most part). Don't get me started on that.

 

[Marmooset]

But my question is thus: You may not believe it's truly happening, but why are you so against preventative measures to stop it happening in the future? Surely you'd agree that to stop it from happening 100 years from now, which is entirely plausible, there should be some preventative measures taken now.

Because it means doing something. And if you're in political opposition to those who champion it, it means doing something and admitting you're wrong. You'll note that their rationalization runs along basically the same lines of retreat:
A) It doesn't exist.
B) Maybe it does exist, but we're not the cause of it.
C) Maybe it does exist, and we are the cause of it, but there's nothing we can really do about it, right?

Any stop along this line allows for inaction. Interestingly enough, this same line is useful for rationalizing poverty, charity, corruption, etc.

I'd quote examples, but just read down the first two pages.

 

[Coldster]

Well it's already proven that it's going to happen and all we can do now make sure it's not going to be an ice age. We need to do these three things:

1. Consume less fossil fuels
2. Plant LOTS more trees and stop cutting so many down
3. Reduce our population

Seriously, we need to stop growing (as a species) so fast! It took us the last 11 years to increase 1 billion people (1990-2011) and thats really freakin scary in my eyes. Even if we do the another two steps it won't matter because it's like taking two steps forward and three steps back. We are expected to reach the 7 billion mark this year just to let you guys know.

 

[kortin]

[starts] Earth is getting warmer. Humans are NOT the major cause of it. [ends]

I'll have to admit, that's a solid point you made...

Anyway, I'm curious: how many of you 'we're-not-causing-global-warming-theory' supporters here live in the US?

Earth goes through hot and cold cycles. Ever since the end of the ice age earth has been gradually getting warmer, and I believe that Humans are not a major cause of Earth warming up. Eventually it will start to cool down again as we head for Earth's next Ice Age. This is what I believe.

 

[Johnny-Natrium]

Why isn't it

Okay, so first of all: I think global warming is absolutely happening. But I also respect those who have a strong opinion contrary to mine (Well, those who aren't arses about it anyway).

But my question is thus: You may not believe it's truly happening, but why are you so against preventative measures to stop it happening in the future? Surely you'd agree that to stop it from happening 100 years from now, which is entirely plausible, there should be some preventative measures taken now.

I've got people here in Australia, prominent people, people in Government, saying things along the lines of "Global Warming has not been proven as fact, so just keep right on doing exactly what you're doing now, because it's not causing immediate and noticeable damage."

That seems unnecessarily reckless to me. After all, doesn't the old idiom read "A stitch in time saves nine"?

I agree. Be prepared, and all that.

Also, I don't care what anyone says, global warming is happening. Where I live, ducks and geese fly south for the winter, 2 months later than they did 30 years ago. I haven't seen a winter without heavy rainfall(instead of snow) in 5 years or more.(we still get snow, we just also get a lot of rain, which never used to happen. I live in the Adirondack park, where the average temperature in January is supposed to be like 10 degrees below zero(Fahrenheit) and 3 summers ago, I went fishing, golfing, and played tennis on January 5th. I've talked personally to one of the first people who started watching average temperatures and CO2 levels year to year(he was third I think, and started in the early 60s, both have been on a consistent rise since he started taking data. Global warming is happening, anyone who thinks it isn't is in denial.

I also take issue with the people who argue over whether we are causing it or not. Despite the obvious fact that we are at least contributing to it, does it really matter? If your house is on fire, do you argue about why it's on fire before calling the fire-department? NO! you do everything you can to save your house from burning down.

tl;dr
I agree with OP. Global warming is obvious to anyone with eyes. Don't argue about whether it's our fault or not.

So how is it not relevant what the cause is?
The solutions are based pretty much on stopping the so called causes of it. If we think our Co2 produce is the cause, which is a theory that's invalid, people try to put a stop to that, with all these campaigns which make them a shit load of money. Al Gore is making tons of money from the fear inducing propaganda and skeptics want to put a stop to it.
Climate change has been occurring throughout the history of the earth, and much more extremely than it is now. You won't put a stop to it with this bull crap however..

 

[Neonit]

who says it doesnt happen? it happens! it happens every, i dunno, 10000 years. it goes from cold to warm, and then from warm to cold (has something to do with co2 and that plants work better when there is a lot of it if i understand correctly). it has happened before humans even existed so yeah, im against "taking actions" against something that happens "above our heads".

 

[northeast rower]

I believe that pollution is happening, but not global warming. I simply believe that the melting ice cap idea is overblown- it is happening, but I don't think that humans are causing it. Charts have shown more of a correspondence in solar flare spikes and melting than with CO2.

That said, I am opposed to measures meant to stop this because a) they will probably constrict the economy in it's time of need, b) they will cut spending needed for both foreign and domestic issues, and c) this will end up raising taxes to pay for those programs.

 

[The_ModeRazor]

Sure, it's happening and it's bad.
Not giving a fuck. I am just another cog in the machine, my impact is minimal, and while other peoples' collective ignoring of this problem makes me rage, I am a perfectly healthy hypocrite and don't bother with enviromentally conscious shit. Also, I'm a depressed, lonely nihilist who believes that he won't live long enough to see the outcome anyway, and that every religion is bullshit and death simply means cessation of existence. As such, I cannot give a fuck about the future of other people, especially since I already don't give a fuck about the people I could help right now if I just used the internet to find an opportunity to help and then got the fuck out of my house and did good stuff. But if I dated a really hot girl who was into that stuff I'd totally pretend that I care, in hopes of sex. Obviously.
(who am I kidding, hot girls wouldn't even look my way)

/blah blah blah ranty asocial fruitcake don't even bother reading it

 

[Timotheus]

Even when the scientists that initially put forth the theories that Global Warming exists were not only proven wrong,

Really? When? Oh, just forget it, I will believe you. Somebody who writes that much of truth and proof without actually explaining anything about the physical process of global warming and what kind of discoveries were made that proved the scientists wrong, has to be right and is the kind of authority to trust, when it comes to the general courses of events in the whole scientific community. Also I completely agree that scientists are the kind of guys who would insist on a wrong thesis just because they fear to lose credibility (it's not like scientists got this credibility in the first time, because they are most selfcritical).

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Don't they call it "climate change" now? Since the earth gets warm in the early months of the year. Also this stuff like rising climate and cold winters happen. Hell just last year it was the coldest and snowiest ohioans have seen since the 70's

 

[Breaker deGodot]

I don't believe it is due to human error. It may be happening, it may not be. That said, there's nothing wrong with doing something to keep it from worsening if we can.

 

[spartan231490]

Why isn't it

Okay, so first of all: I think global warming is absolutely happening. But I also respect those who have a strong opinion contrary to mine (Well, those who aren't arses about it anyway).

But my question is thus: You may not believe it's truly happening, but why are you so against preventative measures to stop it happening in the future? Surely you'd agree that to stop it from happening 100 years from now, which is entirely plausible, there should be some preventative measures taken now.

I've got people here in Australia, prominent people, people in Government, saying things along the lines of "Global Warming has not been proven as fact, so just keep right on doing exactly what you're doing now, because it's not causing immediate and noticeable damage."

That seems unnecessarily reckless to me. After all, doesn't the old idiom read "A stitch in time saves nine"?

I agree. Be prepared, and all that.

Also, I don't care what anyone says, global warming is happening. Where I live, ducks and geese fly south for the winter, 2 months later than they did 30 years ago. I haven't seen a winter without heavy rainfall(instead of snow) in 5 years or more.(we still get snow, we just also get a lot of rain, which never used to happen. I live in the Adirondack park, where the average temperature in January is supposed to be like 10 degrees below zero(Fahrenheit) and 3 summers ago, I went fishing, golfing, and played tennis on January 5th. I've talked personally to one of the first people who started watching average temperatures and CO2 levels year to year(he was third I think, and started in the early 60s, both have been on a consistent rise since he started taking data. Global warming is happening, anyone who thinks it isn't is in denial.

I also take issue with the people who argue over whether we are causing it or not. Despite the obvious fact that we are at least contributing to it, does it really matter? If your house is on fire, do you argue about why it's on fire before calling the fire-department? NO! you do everything you can to save your house from burning down.

tl;dr
I agree with OP. Global warming is obvious to anyone with eyes. Don't argue about whether it's our fault or not.

So how is it not relevant what the cause is?
The solutions are based pretty much on stopping the so called causes of it. If we think our Co2 produce is the cause, which is a theory that's invalid, people try to put a stop to that, with all these campaigns which make them a shit load of money. Al Gore is making tons of money from the fear inducing propaganda and skeptics want to put a stop to it.
Climate change has been occurring throughout the history of the earth, and much more extremely than it is now. You won't put a stop to it with this bull crap however..

Yes climate change has happened before. Yes it will probably happen again. That doesn't mean that we aren't contributing heavily to it. CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and we are the cause of massive amounts of CO2 being released into the atmosphere. It's not just the burning of fossil fuels, it's also deforestation. Plant mass is the main storage of non-fossil CO2, and the rain-forests are shrinking every year, as are many others. All the carbon that used to be contained in those forests is now rotting and burning into the atmosphere due to deforestation and slash/burn farming. It's not a big issue if what you cut is being replaced, because the new plant-mass re-absorbs the carbon that was released as the old plant mass rots or is burned.

I'm not saying we should stop researching the causes, we need to know to slow it down or stop it. I'm just saying that I'm sick of the argument that says we didn't start it, it's a natural phenomena, and either a) we should just let it happen cuz it's not our fault or b) we can't stop it because it's a force of nature. We need to try, not just write it off as an act of god.

 

[Sir Prize]

Okay I know very little, other than what I hacve heard, about Global Warming.
However, isn't it for the best that we find other ways of powering things that a fuel source that will eventually run out?
Also, is there really any hamr in people trying to make a better world?
Yes, people do need to stop screwing each other other with 'Global Warming', however we also need to think about whaqt we do AFTER the oil is gone.

 

[Princess_Dee]

*waves* Geologist here.

Humans -> CO2 -> stunts ozone -> renews plant life -> promotes ozone growth -> less plant life
-> more CO2 -> stunts ozone -> renews plant life -> promotes ozone growth -> less plant life -> more CO2 -> etc.....

All we do is change the pace. And not very much on a global scale...
Earth takes care of everything. It's been that way for a few billion years.

(Feel free to replace "plant life" with "any oxygen producing organism.")

 

[Ledan]

"Climate change" is happening. It's probably due to the natural cycle of the earth, but we are also definitely helping it along. But I really don't think that the whole "go Green" mantra is going to work. Instead of trying to get everyone to be green, which seems to be impossible, a far better solution would be to impose regulations on companies. If they recycled as much as possible, it would be the equivalent or greater than all the recycling individuals could do. Probably. I have absolutely no data.

 

[Bantarific]

"The report, based on the work of some 2,500 scientists in more than 130 countries, concluded that humans have caused all or most of the current planetary warming."

"Today?s report, the first of four volumes to be released this year by the IPCC, also confirms that the marked increase in atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4) and nitrous oxide (N2O) since 1750 is the result of human activities."

"In Earth?s history before the Industrial Revolution, Earth?s climate changed due to natural causes unrelated to human activity. These natural causes are still in play today, but their influence is too small or they occur too slowly to explain the rapid warming seen in recent decades."

"Most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperature since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic [human-caused] greenhouse gas concentrations."

"Humans are pouring carbon dioxide into the atmosphere much faster than plants and oceans can absorb it."

"Industrialization, deforestation, and pollution have greatly increased atmospheric concentrations of water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide, all greenhouse gases that help trap heat near Earth's surface."

"The report, based on the work of some 2,500 scientists in more than 130 countries, concluded that humans have caused all or most of the current planetary warming. Human-caused global warming is often called anthropogenic climate change."

"[Natural] changes have occurred over the span of several centuries. Today's changes have taken place over the past hundred years or less."

It is your right to disagree with 97% of climatologists.

"The strongest consensus on the causes of global warming came from climatologists who are active in climate research, with 97 percent agreeing humans play a role."


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1206_041206_global_warming.html

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-01-19/world/eco.globalwarmingsurvey_1_global-warming-climate-science-human-activity?_s=PM:WORLD

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070202085036.htm

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/GlobalWarming/

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070202-global-warming.html

 

[gillebro]

I'd argue that humans have very little power over the climate. It would take one volcanic eruption to out-do everything that humans have sent into the atmosphere.

I'd say the things we need to do are continue to be diligent in not using CFCs, so the ozone hole continues to shrink in size, and to work out renewable fuel sources, since, yeah, current means are not going to last forever.

 

[Magicman10893]

Who in government? Plenty in the opposition but none that I've heard from in the government (at least, not federal).

What I don't get is why people fail to see the benefit of transitioning away from fossil fuels aside from preventing global warming. Surely people realise that non-renewables are, by their definition, non-renewable. Move towards renewables and you avoid energy price spikes when the non-renewables run out (see the rising price of oil). Be an early moving country and your country is better positioned to capitalise when other countries make the transition later.

Because technology that is designed to get away from fossil fuels are too expensive for most people. Hybrid cars are generally more expensive for most people and things like solar panels are expensive. Not to mention the price that greedy oil companies will have to play to upgrade EVERY gas station to suit the needs of renewable energy sources (putting in additional pumps for newer gas alternatives) and would rather just milk all of earth's oil for what it's worth... you know, like what Activision did to Guitar Hero and Call of Duty and eventually Bungie. And if the parallel to Activision is any indication, things are going to turn out badly for us.

There have been 6 major extinctions wherein the majority of the Earth's life died that we humans know of. All of them happened before we were here and all of them happened due to massive climate change. The ice age was the most recent.

Humans do not affect the climate.​

The Earth will cool and warm long, long after we go extinct and the cycle of life and death will be unaffected.

The hippies are wrong. The science is right.

Agreed!

 

[Bantarific]

@ gillebro "catastrophic eruptions like those of Mount St. Helens or Mount Pinatubo, understandably cause people to sometimes think that human-caused effects on the biosphere are small compared to volcanic ones. But, as the saying goes, "it ain't necessarily so."

"[Volcanos release] 200 million tonnes of CO2 annually.
This seems like a huge amount of CO2, but a visit to the U.S. Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) website (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/) helps anyone armed with a handheld calculator and a high school chemistry text put the volcanic CO2 tally into perspective. Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value."

Sorry to burst your bubble.

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/2007/07_02_15.html
http://cdiac.ornl.gov

 

[Bantarific]

@ Magicman10893
Humans DO affect the climate.

I will redirect you to my previous post only 2 up from yours!

"The report, based on the work of some 2,500 scientists in more than 130 countries, concluded that humans have caused all or most of the current planetary warming. Human-caused global warming is often called anthropogenic climate change."

To quote Rosetta, "The science is right."