And by that logic all PC gamers should include in price is a cheap GPU because who doesn't own a PC already.Iron Criterion said:
A rant on PC fanboyism
- Thread starter binvjoh
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I like both, can this is very hypocritical, as now you are bashing PC gamers for trying to "PCify" games
^ Beginning arguments like that will not lessen people's reaction to you flaming them.Racecarlock said:
OT:
*Facepalm* I don't understand why people get so worked up about this. Why are PC gaming and console gaming two separate fucking factions within the gaming community? People: they're just games. Developers make them for a variety of platforms. Are we seriously getting mad at each other for choosing one platform over the other? So what if "PC gamers" prefer the control method of a keyboard and mouse? So what if they want to make sure their games control well? You'd want the same thing for console games right? Now, I mostly play games on the PC, but i enjoy console games just as well. Why all the hostility? This isn't something worth getting angry over. If people are acting stupid about it, do what any mature human being does: Ignore it.
Because its fun to argue and talk shit to each other, at the end of the day watch someone talk shit about gaming and general and both groups will forget about their bullshit and descend on the lesser beings who don't play games like angry pissed hornets.Mezmer said:
I'm a PC gamer (but not exclusively, I have an xbox360 that I use for xbox only titles). My only complaint about consoles really is that they hold back gaming technology like nobodies business.
People always talk about graphics, but really - that's a no brainer. I have dual high end video cards with a multitude of ram and gpu's and pretty much all I get from a console to PC port these days is better textures. The real issue I have is in the limitations the low rate CPU/IO on consoles bring to the table and how they prevent developers from even attempting anything new or cool.
I mean, hell, you want a persisent world in your video game with NPC's that go and do crazy stuff and live their lives when you're not there? You could build something insanely intense on a PC (but not a console) because of the CPU/RAM/IO limitations and given how popular sandbox games are, it would be insane to see what a good developer could do around modeling a real world/people.
Hell - ever notice that in all these sandbox games, the game (world) or NPC's never really work against you? It's not because game developers are incapable of making a computer player (a real computer play that can co-ordinate game events and NPC's according to a rule set), but it's because anything more complicated than a few rudimentary AI rulesets for combat would bring most gaming consoles to their knees.
It really annoys me actually - the long-ass console life cycle (and even though this latest one has been terrible, it'll probably only get worse) has majorly stifled game development in terms of creativity and possibilities.
I want that potential unleashed... which is why I disdain game consoles. I don't think they're good for anyone, not even gamers. I think they promote an inferior product that exists only to make a select few publishers rich.
I doubt anyone cares about my opinion - but there you have it.
People always talk about graphics, but really - that's a no brainer. I have dual high end video cards with a multitude of ram and gpu's and pretty much all I get from a console to PC port these days is better textures. The real issue I have is in the limitations the low rate CPU/IO on consoles bring to the table and how they prevent developers from even attempting anything new or cool.
I mean, hell, you want a persisent world in your video game with NPC's that go and do crazy stuff and live their lives when you're not there? You could build something insanely intense on a PC (but not a console) because of the CPU/RAM/IO limitations and given how popular sandbox games are, it would be insane to see what a good developer could do around modeling a real world/people.
Hell - ever notice that in all these sandbox games, the game (world) or NPC's never really work against you? It's not because game developers are incapable of making a computer player (a real computer play that can co-ordinate game events and NPC's according to a rule set), but it's because anything more complicated than a few rudimentary AI rulesets for combat would bring most gaming consoles to their knees.
It really annoys me actually - the long-ass console life cycle (and even though this latest one has been terrible, it'll probably only get worse) has majorly stifled game development in terms of creativity and possibilities.
I want that potential unleashed... which is why I disdain game consoles. I don't think they're good for anyone, not even gamers. I think they promote an inferior product that exists only to make a select few publishers rich.
I doubt anyone cares about my opinion - but there you have it.
well, this thread is full of trolls so
http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/121/563/i%20wub%20woo.jpg?1304928747
Well said indeed
http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/121/563/i%20wub%20woo.jpg?1304928747
Well said indeed
I prefer the PC to consoles. I love buying new hardware once every 2-3 years, and installing it myself. I do have a PS3, but thats mostly for fighting games. The rest of the lineup just doesn't interest me. Then again, I mostly play RTS, fighting games and cool adventure games like Witcher 2.
You take your friendship magic and shove it up your...god that thing is cute.Tortoiseloz said:
Sonic Doctor said:
"From where I am standing" so your perspective is an opinion, not necessarily based on fact?
The reason for the frequent upgrades in the past is because during that time, technology was moving incredibly fast. Now, it's slowed down, we're not going to get much better. The next generation of consoles wont be much better than the current one. In other words, your perspective is stuck in the past, it doesn't apply to current technology.
The current game PC I'm running cost me 1500 dollars initially 3 years ago, haven't had to make a single change to it since then, and it currently plays everything on the highest settings. And guess what, since the next generation of consoles wont be much better, I wont have any problems running the games they come out for the Xbox whatever.
Fine.PlowmanMk said:
There is no casual gaming, there is no hardcore gaming. Merely gaming, and the pursuit of oneness.
There are many paths to the ultimate goal, many different ways of walking the paths. But so long as you do it honestly, and without actively harming others on their path it's all the same.
Death to the console peasents bringers of the plague! Where once there was great bounty and growth is corruption and death. Noble PC Gamers we must act now and kill them all or the last remnant of our lands will be destroyed!
I have a plan, we will make it an achievement to jump off a cliff! Yes we will be rid of them at last.
I have a plan, we will make it an achievement to jump off a cliff! Yes we will be rid of them at last.
We need a gaming General George S. Patton to overthrow the Hitler Devs and their brainless zombie console minions!PlowmanMk said:
Could you give me a source on that? As if that source is "US only" and/or "Retail only" I'll know how irrelevant it is. PC is much more popular outside USA and digital downloads are usually not counted at all. I know for a fact that combined Retail AND DIGITAL DOWNLOAD sales of Black Ops on PC was over 3 million... in just the first 3 months.Chibz said:
Also, world-of-warcraft is not a casual-game, have you any idea how complex and in-depth that game is? I'm not hardcore enough for it even after all I have argued for!
Anyway, you are kind of pointing out the obvious with casual-games on PC. There are probably over a Billion(!) PCs out there but most of them low power and used by people who don't care much about specs, that is the dichotomy that you are rather unfairly exploiting here to equate "PC Gamers" with anywone and everyone who plays a game on a PC.
When we talk "PC gamer" we mean far more than jsut play what would barely technically qualify as a game on a PC. We mean someone who actually has invested in a capable gaming machine.
It's like bundling PS2 owners with PS3 owners as "Playstation gamers", they aren't the same. This is the apples-and-oranges comparison beteen console and PC as computer games have only really had 2 generation, DOS and Post-DOS. But a PC to the best spec of 2002 ain't going to play games from 2009, just like PS2 is 2002-spec even if made in 2009.
It's also pure supposition that all those games you list would not be better on PC, seemingly just because they aren't available on PC. I don't think you have even played any games LIKE them on PC as if you had you'd know how much better WASD keys are compared to D-pad input. Key think is you have three fingers can change input very quickly and be very precise with your timing.
Anyway, if a gamepad is more suitable for a game on PC what stops you plugging one in? Nothing. Every serious PC gamer should have a USB gamepad.
If only the same options extended to console games where a mouse + Keyboard would be more suitable. Unfortunately that option is just not available.
Of course some games ARE better on console, but not due to how they control or play but accessibility of the system itself.
(1) You completely screwed up on quoting me, it's ended up a scrambled mess.
(2) Quit it with the "you are crying" and "grow up" stuff. It is very immature on YOUR part.
People have an incentive not to hack Steam as they jeopardise all that they worked towards on steam:
-the purchases (with benefit of auto-update)
-achivements
-friend network
-cloud save
-large game network
And why hack? Steam sales are so appealing that I know I am not alone in buying more games than I probably have time to play! I don't even have the urge to pirate on PC any more, it's pointless.
This is why I love PC so much more than Xbox or similar, the Steam experience is just so much better than the Xbox experience. Lets go through them:
-free online
-mostly dedicated servers
-easy back-up
-integrated library and store
-easy to manage games libary
-Insta-launch from a huge list of games, no disc hunting
The last one most particularly, I can't tell you how appealing it is to have that huge tiled area of games literally at your fingertips.
And of course, Steam set the HIGH standard but there is the most important element of commerce: competition.
Unlike with Xbox where I am bound to Xbox Live or PS3 and PSN, I am not forced to use Steam by the platform. I have Gog.com, OnLive, EA's new service, and anyone else who wants to compete. Competition drives prices down and quality up.
(2) Quit it with the "you are crying" and "grow up" stuff. It is very immature on YOUR part.
(3) What do you think Steam and Steamworks contributes? Absolutely perfect DRM, as it is so incredibly lightweight, unobtrusive and has the most effective anti-hacking element: incentiveDracoSuave said:
People have an incentive not to hack Steam as they jeopardise all that they worked towards on steam:
-the purchases (with benefit of auto-update)
-achivements
-friend network
-cloud save
-large game network
And why hack? Steam sales are so appealing that I know I am not alone in buying more games than I probably have time to play! I don't even have the urge to pirate on PC any more, it's pointless.
This is why I love PC so much more than Xbox or similar, the Steam experience is just so much better than the Xbox experience. Lets go through them:
-free online
-mostly dedicated servers
-easy back-up
-integrated library and store
-easy to manage games libary
-Insta-launch from a huge list of games, no disc hunting
The last one most particularly, I can't tell you how appealing it is to have that huge tiled area of games literally at your fingertips.
And of course, Steam set the HIGH standard but there is the most important element of commerce: competition.
Unlike with Xbox where I am bound to Xbox Live or PS3 and PSN, I am not forced to use Steam by the platform. I have Gog.com, OnLive, EA's new service, and anyone else who wants to compete. Competition drives prices down and quality up.
You're right, I was way out of line there. I got the warning, I'm apologizing for that.Treblaine said:
I still hold the opinion that PC gaming is in its quagmire because of PC's problems and PC gamers' own errors, but I expressed it far too beligerently.
I think part of what PC gamers need to do is show some proactive fight -against- piracy rather than embracing it so heavily. It's ubiquitous, far too many pc users pirate pc games for it not to be a problem.
That's a huge contributor. Obviously if more gamers paid for games there'd be more money in the pot for developers to develop games.
Aye. I actually loved GTA Vice City on my laptop. I had both the usual Keyboard+Mouse and USB Controller rig.Treblaine said:
Mid-grade laptop game-processing power exceeded that of current consoles over two years ago.
Of course, manufacturers will still stick shit-grade VGAs to prop up sales of standard-grade video cards; all of which are suitable for running any Xbox 360 or PS3 equivalent game at good or better quality.
Despite this, the number of mainstream PC-centric games hasn't grown much if at all; rather grinding-garbage like Farmville and WoW have remained the most profitable and dominant games out there; and of course, that's because there is investor confidence in their game platforms (or outright theft in Zynga's case). MMOs and Mass-Social titles have their own sort of DRM built into them (required server connection).
While I do enjoy Steam, I wonder how long it will be before they too implement Always-Online DRM, or before the Publishers just start setting up their own proprietary distribution systems that include this bullshit DRM (EA is already in the process of doing this, and Blizzard is practically there already).
So far, the only real success in resisting this form of DRM has been against Ubisoft. That is, Ubisoft moved back to a more conventional form of DRM after their Always-Online system blew up in their face.
I'm hoping that Usability prevails here. Ubisoft learned that even a weak DDOS attack will render their customers unable to play the games they paid for. If such a system is consistently down, then the only real hope for the customer is a class-action-lawsuit (failure to provide a legally required service) or simply not doing business with that company again.
In short: If the DRM issues become too burdensome to even deal with, then legitimate customer support for the platform will vanish, and thus the incentive to make games for it will vanish with it.
That's the thing, people may LIKE to own a console, but feel they NEED to own a laptop to even function in the modern world.Dys said:Mid-high range laptops have been considerably more powerful than any of the current consoles for some time. Even the notoriously underpowered premium brands (that I"m strategically not namingTreblaine said:) are significantly more powerful than current gen consoles in all but their entry level models.
That said, decently powerful laptops are still nowhere near as cheap (from what I've seen in Australia) as the consoles
Also laptop-console price comparison isn't fair as a laptop ticks many more boxes than a console:
-integrated screen
-integrated speakers
-webcam
-small/lightweight components to be transportable
-large battery for USE on the go
-likely 4x larger data storage capacity
-Full PC operating system
So console-Laptop comparison, for the console add:
-HDTV/Monitor
-(Speakers, if above option lack them)
-USB webcam PSeye
-
-
-Add much larger HDD
-buy a separate PC like a Netttop PC,
Also console have added costs like arbitrary subscriptions (XBL Gold), console tax (about $10-15 per game), Premium proprietary peripherals (Daffy duck HAETS them) and other stuff I can't remember.
Bottom line: people WANT laptops, if they get laptops that are 360-beaters, then unlike in a LONG time the mass market of PC owners may find themselves in a position to game on PC even without actively seekign it out.
But who to capitalise on this? or even how?
Treblaine said:
Same people who've been capitalising on it already - casual and social gaming developers/publishers.