A series of questions to those who want change in female game roles.

[Conner42]

I believe female hypoagency exists. I'm not a dominant guy and gaming certainly isn't a male dominated activity. However it exists in that feminists want things to change for them. Feminists aren't capable of ignoring things they don't like or find offensive about games so they demand they change. That is what female hypoagency is.

Well, that's kind of the thing though. The reason why were able to ignore most of the things that might offend us is because it's not something that's constantly happening for us.

I made a statement earlier in this topic saying that it's not the portrayal of a character that's offensive, but it's the over-portrayal.

In other words, what I'm saying is that it's not exactly a problem for men, because most games are catering towards guys.

And, when it comes to expecting change, I'm not exactly sure what the problem is. What's getting changed? Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

I honestly see this whole thing as more people coming in to play video games, it brings in more diversity. With more people comes more voices. There's a lot of things I would like to see get changed in the gaming industry. And having more diversity and more voices is going to one of the key parts to improving it.

 

[Vault101]

Honestly people take this stuff way too seriously, I mean look up 'game' in the dictionary: "An amusement or pastime."

Video games are supposed to be about enjoying yourself and having [b/]fun,[/b]

what does that mean?.....PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THATS MEANS BECAUSE IT MAKES NO GODAMN SENSE

seriously I mean "fun"..because somthing is fun we shouldnt expect anything of it? we should jsut "fun bro!...probelms? there arent no probelms"

since when did "fun" become a way of saying we just should think or care about anything ever?

[quote/]not giving a shit about and having a cry over sexism.[/quote]
see...theres this thing...its called "the point", right now your on earth...and I think "the point" is on jupiter

why the the hell would be "cry' over somthing if it really didnt matter? *sigh* look I don't mean to get all up tight and overly defenive like some people do over thease issues

but it honestly frustrates me to no end how people eather a) miss the point ot b) overthink things while missing the point


[quote/]then why can't you just respect the artists rendition?[/quote]

I'm all for this, I'm not going to be compaling about the existance of DOA....BUT theres a different between pointless fanservice and an "artistis" rendition

[quote/]If you are offended by it just don't play the game.[/quote]
depends what kind of game we are talking about, if its bayonetta or DOA then sure but say its a game I really really like but the female charachter is all "skimped out" while the male charachters are wearing good practical cloths...I still play and enjoy, but I'll still be sad in a way

[quote/]"fuck you this is shit because the females in your creation don't wear enough clothes, change it now."[/quote]
mabye we shoudl considr why or what it means when a female charachter isnt wearing enough cloths

sigh ok....I want to say one thing

[B/]ITS REALLY REALLY NOT HARD PEOPLE[/B]

its not...at all, I mean whats a good female protagonist? Comander shepard?...do people know how much effort went into femshep? not a whole lot when you think about it..shes just a gender flip, but she's also awsome, I mean jesus

its not always bad if a female charachter isn't the epitome of toughness...its also not always bad if a female charachter is sexualised, [b/]sexualised charachters are not bad, but not all charachters need to be sexualised[/b]

She [Alyx vance]doesn't deserve to be on "strong character" lists or even "strong female" lists. You can rate her as a completely neutral/functional character or slightly above average (the average not setting the bar too high) at the very best. Again, not something that should be given a pedestal.

I agree...[b/]AND ITS OK[/b]

seriosuly..its [i/]ok[/i] that Alyx is the charachter she is, she works and fits within the Half Life 2 story....she's not a bad or sexist charachter because she's not a comander shepard for female freeman, she simply is as she is and there is absolutly nothing wrong with that

this seems to be a thing that confuses people...that its "weak or may sue" no, thats not it, for a charachter to be trated pn par with the "default" male they need to take their hits too...

 

[Something Amyss]

There need be no solution. Can we just settle down and enjoy some video games already?

I think that's what women want to do in the first place.

 

[Vault101]

*sigh*....HERE WE GO!!

Most game devs don't give a fuck about this because they know it's not really an issue to 99% of their audience/consumer base.

whooo!! white male privigle FTW amiright? XD....but seriously, its not mabye an "issue" but I'm sure plent yof gamers would like to see som variety aside from an army of "nathan drakes"

[quote/] It's womens' problem that they're not interested in game development anywhere near as much as males, yet feminists have the nerve to moan and whine when the occasional game catering to a male audience portrays them "wrongly" or whatever. Politically sensitive twats.[/quote]
I don't see it as "moaning" when [b/]silly needless[/b] double standards come about, and again Ive even heard the ocasional male say some of the over the top stuff is stupid and pannders to the "imature basment dweller" steryotype,

anyway that said I have no issue with lollipop chainsow/DOA type games, they arent going anywhere

[quote/]I, like any other gamer, expect good writing/plot/gameplay/etc in every game. But I'm also proud to say that I DON'T mind seeing a pair of tits bouncing around my fantasy world.[/quote]
neither do I...but it depends entirly on what kind of game we are talking about...Ive said it before I'll say it again [b/]theres nothing wrong with over sexualised charachters..but not all charachters need to be overly sexualised[/b] does it really hurt anyone that lara crofts breasts are no loner the main charachters in the new tomberaider game?

[quote/]I have all the respect in the world for women, the same amount of respect I have for my fellow man. So then why the do I get called a "immature sexist perverted jerk who objectifies women" for appreciating the female body? [/quote]
you don't....you get called that for saying things like "OMG your guyz! thease bitches need to STFU damn girls ruining gaming" <-and NO I AM NOT saying thats what your saying right now..but what you are doing is making/exagerating silly reasons...I don't blame anyone for apreciating the female body...and I do that myself somtimes as well

[quote/]Nature/evolution fucking programmed me to do it over the course of a million years, problem? Christ. [/quote]

not the point man....not the point

[quote/]Feminists are only angry about this issue because graphics in videogames have reached a level where a beautiful female character can look attractive enough to pull their boyfriends' eyes away from themselves and focus on the TV screen. It's not "objectifying" as much as being subconciously jealous (look up Female Hypoagency).[/quote]

wow...yoru abolutly right..THATS EXACTLY MY REASONING AND MOTIVATION..my god you know us all so well

*sigh*

ok...cut the bullshit...no really

you won't get any understanding if you sit there and play "harrased victim" and make up thease so called "reasons" in your head as to why we say what we say, in fact right now I'm not trying to be antagonistic...but to explain [b/]why[/b]

[/i]boyfriends' eyes away from themselves and focus on the TV screen. It's not "objectifying" as much as being subconciously jealous (look up Female Hypoagency[/i]

what the fuck does my non-existant boyfreind have to do with me playing games? I played games for a long time and it had NOTHING to do with some guy

and the second part is one of those BS arguments...as in "its science! its on your sub-concious! you can;t argue!..huzzah!" I don'y know what to say other than thats BS and

NOT......THE.....POINT

 

[Mouse One]

does it really hurt anyone that Lara Crofts breasts are no longer the main characters in the new tomb raider game?

Hey, don't forget her bra. It was awarded best supporting role!

/rimshot

(are we allowed to make funnies in this thread?)

 

[Vault101]

does it really hurt anyone that Lara Crofts breasts are no longer the main characters in the new tomb raider game?

Hey, don't forget her bra. It was awarded best supporting role!

/rimshot

(are we allowed to make funnies in this thread?)

I should think soo....that was very funny A+

 

[Vault101]

I'll bite..

Is there a problem? I don't know, you tell me what's the problem with that image.

well take a look at this one...

[spoiler/][img/]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5NZ88BBohC4/TuMfCsFP21I/AAAAAAAAAD4/7HS3nqYhn8I/s1600/ninja-gaiden.jpg[/img][/spoiler]

what does it say?.....it says "I am a Ninja...I am the shadow that you see at night.....I will strike fast and without mercy....I am the last thing you will ever see.."

that does the other one say?

TITS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Vault101]

Men - stop being so goddamned offended over criticism.

That's it. There you go. All the stupid drains right out of this argument right there.

you win the thread

BEES FOR TRILLIGAN!

[img/]http://blog.shimer.edu/.a/6a010534b2c34a970c016768d3285d970b-320wi[/img]

also in regards to big bang theory....show FOR nerds?...*snrrrrrkkk* no I was pretty certian this was a "nerd mocking" peice from the start

 

[burningdragoon]

There is one simple, obvious solution to this debate. And, oddly enough, it doesn't exist on the feminist side of the argument.

Here it is, in it's simplistic entirety:

Men - stop being so goddamned offended over criticism.

That's it. There you go. All the stupid drains right out of this argument right there.

STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM! Take you're rational post with a solid analogous example and get off the damn internet. You don't belong here.

>.>

--

Also, you're a little to the battle party, Vault.

 

[Vault101]

Also, you're a little to the battle party, Vault.

its only 4 pages

the party hasnt even started

 

[Conner42]

Holy shit you guys!


Extra Credits before they were Extra Credits as we know and love. I'm really excited to discover videos I haven't seen before, I love it

Anyways, this one is actually really on point, but, you know, it's because it's Extra Credits

I have to say, there are a lot of things that the main guy's eyes do that they don't do anymore that I really like.

The video came out in 2009, but they address a lot of the things that I heard brought up in videos of today.

 

[Evil Smurf]

why do you need anything other then plot armour?

 

[Lugbzurg]

Disregarding her most recent game, I can't be the only person here thinking about Samus Aran. Yeah, she's pretty much become the usual go-to point for "Strong female character". But what I'd like to point out is a couple things I've heard mentioned about her.

First of all, I like this: "Samus is a female who happens to be a bounty-hunter; not a bounty-hunter who happens to be female". It's the "bounty-hunter" status that's the "gimmick", for lack of a better word. That's the important thing about her. Which brings me to the other point, which I've mostly heard in regards to Metroid Prime.

You can just imagine Nintendo briefing Retro Studios up-to-date on Metroid lore. At some point, they'd be all like "Samus is female", with Retro being all "She is? Ok, no big deal." And it isn't. It really isn't a big deal. They based her character on the status of "ultimate bounty-hunter", not "blatantly-obvious female character".

Metroid: Other M did the opposite. When the team working on that game got to use Samus, they used her. Used and abused. "Samus is female? Let's prominently-display this fact as blatantly as we dare!" And the bounty-hunter aspect? "Oh, I'm sure she'll get a good day somewhere or other..."

You could also think of Kazooie. She's awesome.

 

[Vault101]

First of all, I like this: "Samus is a female who happens to be a bounty-hunter; not a bounty-hunter who happens to be female". It's the "bounty-hunter" status that's the "gimmick", for lack of a better word. That's the important thing about her. Which brings me to the other point, which I've mostly heard in regards to Metroid Prime.

I always felt like Samus originall y being femle was...not exactly a "joke" but not an attept at some kind of "female empowerment thing"...just "shes female!..gotcha!"...I don't know

[quote/]You could also think of Kazooie. She's awesome.[/quote]
untill they made her look like a drag queen in nuts'n'bolts

 

[Vault101]

Also, yeah, I agree about TBBT, which is why I never watched it - but it's just the way it's presented, y'know? Anyway, that's really neither here nor there.

if its actually trying to apeal to nerds (which it is in a way) then its a very pathetic effort...the secodn I heard about it I could see it for what it was..this was a "durr hurr nerds" show and to see it as anything else kind of baffles me, its no different to alot of mainstram shows and no amount of "science jokes" would change that

but yeah...don't want to derail this thread

....or mabye we do!

to be fair about the Amy charachter I think it was less "this is a nerd girl" and more "what about a female sheldon?" which I ashamidly amit.....is kind of funny

 

[Slayer_2]

Eh, I was actually going to address your questions point-by-point, but I have realised from experience that will just lead me to a bunch of dudes quoting me telling me how super wrong I am and there's absolutely no problem no way not ever.

WRONG! You are SUPER WRONG! There is no sexism in games or society, you're just WRONG!

Seriously though, gaming was male dominated. Most developers are males. Most males like sexy women. Most men also want to be the badass, or seen as a cool and/or tough guy. Hence why when males design a game, we have games with stereotypical men that are badass, macho, etc, and women that are sexy, fit, and usually sitting in the back seat while the guy drives. There are exceptions for both genders, of course. My solution? Blame society and go back to my games.

 

[Ryotknife]

There is one simple, obvious solution to this debate. And, oddly enough, it doesn't exist on the feminist side of the argument.

Here it is, in it's simplistic entirety:

Men - stop being so goddamned offended over criticism.

That's it. There you go. All the stupid drains right out of this argument right there.


.

im sorry, that is illogical. You are implying that all criticism should be considered the honest truth if it comes from a woman in this debate. There are legitimate issues, but that does not mean i have to accept any and all criticism as fact just because it comes from the female side. I am not going to afford one side special status because of their gender, which ironically is what feminism is/should be about (depending on your stance of modern feminism).

You are also implying that the problem of the gender issue is solely caused by men, which is also inaccurate.

you are painting men as stupid and the ultimate evil whereas the feminist are brilliant and the ultimate good. That is blind hatred and fanaticism. What you did is absolutely no different than conversatives and liberals painting each other as demons.

A person has every right to voice their criticism, but I also have every right to either ignore it or debate it if i feel it is inaccurate.