A Study of Tim Schafer

[PhiMed]

Brutal legend (don't know how to get umlauts when typing into this) definitely lives up to Tim Shafer weirdness standards

Shame it doesn't really live up to his gameplay standards.

Isn't the entire point of this article that his gameplay pedigree is suspect? To what game(s) are you referring when you speak of his "gameplay standards"?

Anyway, I agree that Schaffer's games can be difficult to play at times, which can be a dagger in the heart of a game in most cases due to it being interactive media. I think the fact that I continue to buy them unquestioningly stands as testament to his originality, creativity, and writing skills. He's the rarest of breeds in the bland wasteland that is video game developers.

And for the record, I enjoyed Brutal Legend. The RTS isn't my genre, but the imagery, humor, and story were fantastic. That and I didn't feel the need to break things when I was jumping through a circus of meat.

I do understand the point of the this article but to be fair there's only so much gameplay for a point and click game. I was just depressed that Brutal Legend's gameplay couldn't match his last outing Psychonauts.(Of particular standout for me is the Gogalor part)

On that we're agreed, especially on Gogalor (Gogglor? Goggleor? idk but I know it's derived from the word goggle. That and the mailman were my favorite levels.), but one game doesn't necessarily establish someone as a master of mechanics.

Even though the gameplay was much better than Brutal Legend's, I shared Ben's confusion during some of the levels. It sometimes got to the point that I would have to put the game down for a bit in order to come back fresh because my frustration was preventing me from enjoying the game. In fact, if the rest of the game wasn't so outstanding, the confusing level design probably would have soured me on the game as a whole.

Unfortunately, we may have to accept the fact that Psychonaut's decent gameplay, not Brutal Legend's poor gameplay, is the outlier when you look at Schafer's entire body of work.

 

[Braiba]

I've been finding people talking about Brütal Legend to be a bit confusing. From the discussions I've seen you'd think the game was solid stage battling from start to end whereas, for me at least, *maybe* 5% of the gameplay time was spent on them. The majority of the game is actually smashing things, blowing things up and driving over/through things, so comments such as Yahtzee's that the in no way resembles the final product seem strange and confusing to me.

Maybe this is just my general ambivalence towards online multiplayer, or maybe the fact that I read Shafer's gameplay tips on the Double Fine blog beforehand and thus won every stage fight first time with no problem at all (on Brütal) means it was a smaller chunk of gameplay for me than a lot of other people. I don't know; I just find the apparent collective delusion about this game's content rather baffling.

 

[cobra_ky]

Hey! it's the same argument i tried to make <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.152051.3628342>a week ago, only clearer and better supported! i'm flattered.

If you ask me i think Tim will become more and more influenced by games out today than with his other titles which were unqiue. In turn making his games less and less orginal. I guess in this day and age everything has been done before.

are you talking about Schafer's writing or his game design? If you mean his writing, Brutal Legend was inspired by Schafer's love of metal album covers and the peyote trip scene cut from Full Throttle. i don't see any significant influence from modern games in that regard.

If you mean game design, then i'd argue Schafer has NEVER been original. his games, at their core, are essentially simple, by-the-numbers genre pieces, be they adventure, platformer, or RTS. Schafer's writing and creative design is what makes his games so memorable and appealing.

I do understand the point of the this article but to be fair there's only so much gameplay for a point and click game.

well yeah, the point is Schafer has only ever really distinguished himself as a writer, not a game designer.

 

[Powerman88]

I think the point is that Writing and Game Design are not necessarily in the same skill set. I spent roughly 12 hoursish with Brutal Legend (I don't know how to make the umlaut) and I have to say its strongest point is as an artistic vision. The coolest part for me was racing around from one end of the world to the other and checking out all the detail and the vivid imaginations and creativity that clearly went in to every inch of the world.

My biggest beef is that this game REALLY needed another year of development. The story felt like it had hunks chopped off (it felt half as long as it should have been). You see all sorts of tainted coil at the very beginning and then not again until the final battle. There are a few relationships between characters that feel only half flushed out, and the world seemed like it had some cool spots that were put in for a reason and then had that "reason" taken out to rush a game to production.

Ultimately it REALLY felt like the cake needed another hour in the oven; if you get what I'm saying. Whats my point again?

 

[TheReactorSings]

>>>TOKEN LEXICAL PEDANTRY POST<<<

"On-bike combat sequences were roughly EQUIVOCAL to a fighting game in which all the characters are inflatable clowns..."

Do you have a subediting vacancy? Can I have the job? (Oh God please, I need the work!)

>>>END<<<

 

[Woodsey]

To be honest, game's don't mean shit in this industry (with the exception of Peter Molyneux, as you get a pre-warning to stay the fuck away from whatever he's helped to create).

For instance, Jade Raymond was plastered all over the first Assassin's Creed, but I doubt she really got anyone interested in it - it was hardly a little known game, the inclusion of her and her looks weren't important (for more than a minute tops).

Instead of actors and directors we see developers and publishers, individuals (other than the pantomime villains and fools, Bobby Kotick and Peter Molyneux respectfully) are, for better or worse, irrelevant when it comes to me buying a game (and many others I'd imagine).

 

[theultimateend]

I didn't really enjoy that article. It's just sounds a bit whiney.

Which makes your response humorous .

I noticed Will Wright on his list.

Will Wright was my certain win until SPORE. Now I don't really trust him anymore, I worry that he may have gone nutso.

 

[300lb. Samoan]

Brass tacks, let's get down to them

Tim Schaeffer is a writer. If you're going to his games expecting innovative or expertly executed game mechanics, you clearly aren't keeping up with your own account of the man's track record. His point-and-click adventures actually have much in common with his recent work in Brutal Legend - taking one (or many) established gameplay styles and using them as a platform for visual/narrative experiences. Point-and-click may have been technologically limited, but it was a well understood mechanic intended as a vehicle for quirky plots and puzzle development. Brutal Legend is a hodge-podge of familiar mechanics used with the same intent, to provide a basis for that visual/narrative experience.

Open-world gaming: is it destroying the integrity of the game-styles it subsumes? Yes. But to say that this detracts from Brutal Legend's overall quality is missing the point of the game. Every time you attack Brutal Legend's open-world because of the saturation of the open-world genre only shows your personal boredom. BL's is the first world I've seen designed completely with a formalist intent, whereas every other game has been a virtual-New York/Miami/Compton/Chicago/Post-Apocalyptic Wasteland. In other words, Brutal Legend is the only game I've seen that goes beyond emulation to make way for expression in its geographic design. If you get bored exploring the world of Brutal Legend, you are simply bored of open-world gaming and your objectivity is lost in the process.

Of course this is practically unavoidable for Yahtzee, he's made a commitment as a games critic to finish every game he approaches. I guess my experience with BL benefits because I didn't have to force myself to finish GTA IV, Saints Row II, InFamous and Prototype. To me Brutal Legend is more than just another world that must be explored, experienced and evaluated within a professional time frame. It is a visual feast and, unlike GTA IV's endless errands and familiar-from-real-life row and column streets, it's a living breathing wildlife beckoning me to visit it over and over again.

Bottom-line: Brutal Legend is a triumph of interactive story-telling combined with fantastic (as opposed to realistic) art design offering a unique, guided free-form experience. It fails mildly in the familiarity of its gameplay, majorly in the repetition of its secondary missions. If you're going to account for Tim Schaffer's popularity as a game designer and success as an industry veteran, can we at least acknowledge where his true talent lies? Because revealing that a point-and-click adventure writer has problems implementing hack-and-slash combat with RTS elements in an open-world setting while maintaining proper balance, that's a no-brainer.

 

[TwoDot]

Here's one for Yahtzee - Please, take another German lesson on the pronunciation of umlauts... Ü is more like the French u, like the one in "crème brûlée" (pronounced in French, not English - that would remove the point altogether).

Apart from that, love your reviews.

 

[hendersonl]

"...as in the point where you have to make your monster sidekick vomit gelatin over a set of dominoes so they won't fall over and detonate a bomb."

Odd game logic, yes, but it did feature what was quite possibly the best line from any game I've ever played --

"So, what is that stuff they pack canned hams in?"

Priceless.

L.

 

[Chunko]

I thought that bit when the sound went off was intentional, lol.

 

[Britisheagle]

Good stuff. That being said, I know a few games where I feel that QTEs work quite well. But thats just me. Probably just like them as I thought resi 4 was the best thing to happen to me since I bought a Gamecube and it had them.

I thought that bit when the sound went off was intentional, lol.

Me too so your not the only one!

 

[Capo Taco]

I think the point is that Writing and Game Design are not necessarily in the same skill set. I spent roughly 12 hoursish with Brutal Legend (I don't know how to make the umlaut) and I have to say its strongest point is as an artistic vision. The coolest part for me was racing around from one end of the world to the other and checking out all the detail and the vivid imaginations and creativity that clearly went in to every inch of the world.

My biggest beef is that this game REALLY needed another year of development. The story felt like it had hunks chopped off (it felt half as long as it should have been). You see all sorts of tainted coil at the very beginning and then not again until the final battle. There are a few relationships between characters that feel only half flushed out, and the world seemed like it had some cool spots that were put in for a reason and then had that "reason" taken out to rush a game to production.

Ultimately it REALLY felt like the cake needed another hour in the oven; if you get what I'm saying. Whats my point again?

I wonder if activision is to blame for your supposed lack of development.

 

[Adzma]

Wow, I haven't thought about that wall kicking minigame in Full Throttle for years. Thanks for opening up a wound Yahtzee. *sniffle* Jokes aside a really good article as always. Also only 30+ comments? What happened to all the idiots who comment on the ZP videos? EP too intellectual for them?

 

[vxicepickxv]

Wow, I haven't thought about that wall kicking minigame in Full Throttle for years. Thanks for opening up a wound Yahtzee. *sniffle* Jokes aside a really good article as always. Also only 30+ comments? What happened to all the idiots who comment on the ZP videos? EP too intellectual for them?

Yeah, that kicking game was bad. You have to wait until the lights all match up, then kick a specific crack in the wall at a certian point that your sidekick can't remember exactly because she was only about 6 years old at the time. That is probably the worst part about the game otherwise great game(unless you forgot the booster fan for your bike and didn't clear the cliff).

I wouldn't mind going back to unleash the horde of wind up rabbits into the minefield again, or try to find some new forks, well, maybe not "new" new, but not ground into thousands of little pieces new.


Two pages AND they have to read it all themselves? That's an alwful lot of work for a lot of the ZP folks.

 

[Adzma]

I wouldn't mind going back to unleash the horde of wind up rabbits into the minefield again, or try to find some new forks, well, maybe not "new" new, but not ground into thousands of little pieces new.

"Now it's just me and the bunnies."
Those bunnies were the source of so many laughs. I'll never forget hearing the Ride of the Valkyries after dropping the box of them and watching every single one explode. Good times.

 

[The Random One]

You know, just yesterday I made a comment on the topic about American McGee Presents American McGee's Return of Alice by American McGee that is quite pertinent here. How does one become a 'name' in the videogame industry? You need hundreds of people to create a game nowadays - how can you think a single person, by its own, can cause strong influence on how a game is developed?

It's no wonder most 'names' are from the earlier history of gaming - back then, with no need for horders of programmers to accurately model how the heroine's hair flows against her breasts, one name could do a lot. Right now, a 'name' can steer game development in a direction, even control the entire storyline (which is actually not very important outside the point-and-click genre), but there's little it can do regarding the complexity of the mechanics.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Come on Yahtzee, you can't tell me you didn't enjoy releasing a box full of toy bunnies into a mine field in Full Throttle. You enjoyed it, you know you did!

 

[Sewblon]

What Shafer needs to do is team up with some people who are really good game designers. I think a Mario game that was set in a universe that Shafer creates would be awesome. You know you want to see a Mario game with a good story, and since it's Mario, you can have him do anything and it wouldn't be out of place. Shafer gets criticized on game design and Mario for lack of story or characterization. Sounds like a good fit to me.

That won't work. People who are exceptionally good at what they do don't necessarily work well together, that is why developers form teams with people they know they work with well. And Tim Schafer always comes across as the second-last person in the world who would ever willingly work on any ideas except his own(the last person in the world who would work on any ideas except his own is Suda51.) Finally, so far as I know, either gameplay or story inevitably takes priority over the other.

 

[Fearzone]

It seems a little strange that he would wade into the waters of hardcore gaming--multiplayer RTS--without giving us the controls or UI tools to micromanage an army. I understand some control will need to be sacrificed in the interest of giving up the mouse and keyboard for a console controller, but I look at Brutal Legend, and I see that hardcore gaming needs were blatantly disregarded to appeal to the casual gamer set.

Not even giving a health bar above you or your enemy... WTF?!? No minimap has been a widespread complaint... imagine playing Starcraft 2 without a minimap. LOL? Not being able to control units from afar? ...

I agree with the point that he seems to want an imersive story to the point that he will deny us good gameplay. I really wanted this one to be good... I love the units, and an RTS of battling rock band fandom is brilliant. If Double Fine gives us a control overhaul patch I'll be the first to get this one.