A Thread for the Writers Guild of America Strike

Ag3ma

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Because I also explained why Neilsen isn't the best source and showed an example of another such thing that was being considered industry standard for a while about analysis of the "success" of a program.
So, to get this straight, you were happy to claim viewing figures when it suited you, but having been demonstrated wrong, you're simply sort of claiming viewing figures don't mean anything?

So, basically, more dishonesty.

For the massive price She-Hulk underperforming?
Ah, moving the goalposts. Classic tactic of someone caught out being completely wrong.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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So, to get this straight, you were happy to claim viewing figures when it suited you, but having been demonstrated wrong, you're simply sort of claiming viewing figures don't mean anything?

So, basically, more dishonesty.
Actually I put them in wider context to compare them to other such stats from the same company. From an article that outlined the biases and issues with said data. So yeh, I can claim the viewing figures don't mean anything because We only have Nielsen figures for She-Hulk, which BTW just looked into getting Nielsen data and it's not publicly available thus I can't present comparative data for many other shows however the article I linked had data on watch minutes from other shows.

As for being proved wrong?

Well the data you just argued proved me wrong was what I just used to prove my point lol, the only difference, I used more of said data. Guess the data must be all wrong now rather than me right?


Ah, moving the goalposts. Classic tactic of someone caught out being completely wrong.
Oh I'm sorry does that not constitute failure these days to put in a large amount of money expecting a certain result only to not get that result and to do worse than a show with 1/10th the budget and probably 1/100th the marketing and hype?
 

Silvanus

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Based on similar comparisons it would be 390 Million watch minutes for a show costing $25M an episode. It was beaten (but the article I pointed out) by a show with 50 minute episodes which cost $2 Million per episodes. or there about (lets say $2.5 Million to overestimate a bit).

So the Blacklist at $2.5 Mil per 50 minute episode beat out She Hulk at $25 Million per 30 minutes episode lol.

In corporate terms that's failure. If it weren't a failure we'd already be hearing news of She Hulk season 2 I'm sure.
Lol OK. I'm sure you're the expert, and not Nielsen.

That would cause issues with pay disparities for certain writers etc I'm sure and not be a good look for the companies involved.

No studios generally talk through lawyers not twitter slap fighting tactics.
Yet you... are simultaneously condemning the writers for not indulging in that tactic, and saying that it proves their case is weak? K.

It was drafted in early on lol It was made into a part of it. Either by poor writing making it out to be something else or people latching onto that poor writing thinking it supported their ideology and pushing it as anyone against it hating all women and all women heroes ever.
Yes, it's always someone else's fault, even though you're easily the loudest person here decrying it for weird ideological reasons.
 

Ag3ma

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Actually I put them in wider context to compare them to other such stats from the same company.
No you didn't. You gave the Nielsen figures and then picked figures from another company without knowing what they meant. It was actually me that supplied the context, which is that under either company's metrics, the viewing figures appear to be fine.

Oh I'm sorry does that not constitute failure these days to put in a large amount of money expecting a certain result
Yeah, you only switched to that "value for money" argument after you got caught out.

At best, you can't even defend your argument beyond personal opinion. The funding of streaming shows is relatively opaque (e.g. how is a break-even point calculated?), nor do you know what the desired / expected audience numbers were, nor what other intentions may have been behind the show. We can't even be sure by whether it is renewed, because it was reportedly only ever meant as a single season series anyway.

So that is the feeble, squeaking rat fart of even your revised argument. The empty, pathetic, raging hate of anti-progressives desperately wishing anything they deem "woke" a failure irrespective of whether they can even defend that point, furiously review-bombing, posting YouTube rants and cluttering up debate boards.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Gordon_4

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Streaming services are grinding their own market apart, each one thinking that we'll abandon the others and come to them for... what, two or three shows? Given the choice between that and shelling out money for multiple services, a lot of people are choosing neither.
Well since the same crowd who decry there being a million services would equally decry a Netflix monopoly on the action, what do you expect them to do? As a service it’s now too entrenched for people to accept it going away and returning to digital terrestrial television or cable.
 

Baffle

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Well since the same crowd who decry there being a million services would equally decry a Netflix monopoly on the action, what do you expect them to do? As a service it’s now too entrenched for people to accept it going away and returning to digital terrestrial television or cable.
Maybe sell each other content so we can choose one streaming service to watch multiple shows rather than one service for one or two shows each.

Edit: this is not a well thought out suggestion on my part, it's the first thing that popped into my head.
 

davidmc1158

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I've honestly been waiting for various streaming services to bundle their content together as packages the same way you got various cable networks as a package with television/satellite subscriptions in the past. I dunno, just seemed like the next logical step in the process. I guess not . . . . .
 

Gordon_4

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I've honestly been waiting for various streaming services to bundle their content together as packages the same way you got various cable networks as a package with television/satellite subscriptions in the past. I dunno, just seemed like the next logical step in the process. I guess not . . . . .
Unless I miss my guess, that more or less happened because the companies that owned the media didn't own the broadcast/transmission infrastructure. So they competed through the one or two companies who could get the equipment and therefore the content into people's homes.

Enter, the Internet. Or more precisely, ADSL broadband internet. Suddenly here's this platform that can functionally exist in any home with a working phone line. Sure it started deeply unsuitable - Hello Dial Up my ancient nemesis! - but time and technology improved as it is won't to do and then suddenly there was a perfectly viable way for media owners to beam their content into people's homes without needing anything more specialised than an internet connection and a piece of software. There were teething problems, but eventually it smoothed out.
 
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Ag3ma

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Enter, the Internet. Or more precisely, ADSL broadband internet. Suddenly here's this platform that can functionally exist in any home with a working phone line. Sure it started deeply unsuitable - Hello Dial Up my ancient nemesis! - but time and technology improved as it is won't to do and then suddenly there was a perfectly viable way for media owners to beam their content into people's homes without needing anything more specialised than an internet connection and a piece of software. There were teething problems, but eventually it smoothed out.
Well, sort of smoothed out, except that the model appears to be kind of broken and unsatisfactory (from the perspective of capitalist profits and investors, anyway).

I guess an argument is potentially just that subscriptions are too low, or not enough advertising revenue. Netflix grew on masses of investor capital but is now having to stand on its own two feet. However, Disney, Amazon and maybe the odd other are still funding theirs up the wazoo to compete. Whilst they're all frantically competing, it's potentially holding down subscriptions, because they're all too worried about pricing themselves into reduced customer numbers. Without the mass subisidies, price may go up. (Iger at Disney has opined the company has much decreased willingness to carry on throwing money at streaming.)
 

Satinavian

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Well, sort of smoothed out, except that the model appears to be kind of broken and unsatisfactory (from the perspective of capitalist profits and investors, anyway).

I guess an argument is potentially just that subscriptions are too low, or not enough advertising revenue. Netflix grew on masses of investor capital but is now having to stand on its own two feet. However, Disney, Amazon and maybe the odd other are still funding theirs up the wazoo to compete. Whilst they're all frantically competing, it's potentially holding down subscriptions, because they're all too worried about pricing themselves into reduced customer numbers. Without the mass subisidies, price may go up. (Iger at Disney has opined the company has much decreased willingness to carry on throwing money at streaming.)
Yes, streaming is less profitable than TV was.
But that is exactly why it became successful : It is a way better deal for customers. They can select what to watch and when to watch and for the payment can even skip ads. There will be no going back.
 

Ag3ma

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Yes, streaming is less profitable than TV was.
But that is exactly why it became successful : It is a way better deal for customers. They can select what to watch and when to watch and for the payment can even skip ads. There will be no going back.
Until there were multiple streaming companies. Back when it was just Netflix it was awesome. Now we're right back where we were with multiple paid-for cable / satellite providers, locked out of access of much material without multiple, expensive subscriptions. At least in the old days I bought a TV, and had a range of stuff to watch for nothing but the electricity cost.
 

Satinavian

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Until there were multiple streaming companies. Back when it was just Netflix it was awesome. Now we're right back where we were with multiple paid-for cable / satellite providers, locked out of access of much material without multiple, expensive subscriptions. At least in the old days I bought a TV, and had a range of stuff to watch for nothing but the electricity cost.
But back then most of the time nothing was worth watching. I have a far easier time finding something now, even with only one streaming subscription.

Sure, i would prefer if those various streaming services stopped trying to fight each with exclusives and i could get basically everything from one source. But that doesn't change that i can get so much more now than before.
 

Ag3ma

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But back then most of the time nothing was worth watching.
There's nothing now!

Arguably, the average standard of available TV has increased enormously. But the thing is, expectations move to fit the norm. If most things are "objectively" crap, you're subjectively happy with what's "objectively" mediocre. If the norm becomes "objectively" mediocre, you need something "objectively" good to float your boat, and so on.

In the old days, we may have watched stuff that doesn't hold a candle to material we won't watch now... but we were happy with it because we didn't have anything better to realise how shonky it was.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Not to mention that before streaming, a mediocre show was generally given enough time to find it's feet as long as it didn't *completely* bomb.

Under modern conditions, long-running, fan favorite shows like Stargate SG-1 probably would've died on the vine. It's first season was not good. Mission Impossible straight up changed lead actors
 
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Gordon_4

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Not to mention that before streaming, a mediocre show was generally given enough time to find it's feet as long as it didn't *completely* bomb.

Under modern conditions, long-running, fan favorite shows like Stargate SG-1 probably would've died on the vine. It's first season was not good. Mission Impossible straight up changed lead actors
TNG would have been taken out back and shot, without question.