Accpet Steam's New EULA or Say Goodbye To Your Steam Account UPDATED

[GameMaNiAC]

Steam puts in unfavorable ToS... people blame the user for signing up for it in the first place. If this was about EA doing something like this it would be more fuel for the anti-origin witch hunt.

I agree with this. It's easy to blame the user, but honestly, it feels kind of unfair if you disagree and you lose all your games. It would be understandable if they simply let you keep your games, but you cannot use their services anymore. You bought those games when you agreed with the ToS. But since the ToS has changed, you have the right to disagree.

To be honest, this might make people resort to piracy. But I don't really blame them. If all of my games were taken away, you bet your ass I'd want them back by any means, since I did buy them and I didn't get a refund.

 

[CrazyBlaze]

Question. How much exposure to gaming sites have you for the past three or more years. Now days almost every non-indie new release has a form of online DRM even if you have the CD. Some games have a code you have to input. Steam and Origin are like that code, except that no code has to be in putted. They check your computer every time and you can't play a game without the program running.

OT: So they are changing their ToS. Does Valve have a lot of class action law suits against them? I mean they provide great service and from what I've heard their customer support is very good. I can't see them being sued for millions often. I mean I can understand Sony after the PSN outage last summer. But Valve seems to be pretty good about this stuff.

Hmmmm... I still don't know.
I just got a couple of games on CD about 3 months back (Baldurs Gate 1-2 and such) I didn't need to get permission from an outside service to play those games though... On the other hand though I was just saying that it still seams silly to be bound to Steam when other DRM free options or even integrated DRM is available... just makes me wonder why the CD doesn't allow you to, you know, play off the CD?

Also I haven't played Skyrim yet so I guess I was really just asking a question instead of making a statement. Sorry.

Edit: sniping quotes for length

Edit2: Modified for clarity

Games like Baldur's Gate were before the time of major DRM. I would guess its been mostly the past five to seven years in which DRM has really been around. Companies want to use DRM as a way to stop piracy but it doesn't really work. Mainly because people are to get around the DRM with relative ease.

 

[algalon]

This just makes piracy more appealing. If Valve is so afraid of money and fame that they feel the need to screw their customers, it won't go well for them. In fact, I'd like to see a few examples of them doing just that, deleting a customer's library of games, just for all the massive negative press they'd receive. They'd never sell another game ever again.

Valve's fanbase is one of the most loyal I've ever seen, you only need to look at this thread to realize it. They pretty much have free reign to do whatever they want and the customers will bend over and ask for more. I for one am scared of this new trend considering digital distribution is becoming more prevalent. What happens if they get hacked and all your personal info and credit card info get stolen? Having all you're games linked to an account is just asking for trouble. I'll never replace my hard copies of games, and when the all digital future comes, I won't be a part of it. I'll find a new hobby.

This is why I don't keep my credit info on any outside computer system. Not Amazon, not Steam, definitely not PSN. If I buy something online I retype the credit info every time, no saves. I'm surprised more people don't do this.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Well... I don't agree with completely shutting down your account, but it's your choice whether to use Steam or not. Using Steam requires agreeing to their TOS. If you don't like it, don't use it. That simple.

Except that you've already purchased those games. You own them.

This is exactly what I've been saying about digital distribution since this whole mess started.

fuck you, valve

 

[Nielas]

I agree with this. It's easy to blame the user, but honestly, it feels kind of unfair if you disagree and you lose all your games. It would be understandable if they simply let you keep your games, but you cannot use their services anymore. You bought those games when you agreed with the ToS. But since the ToS has changed, you have the right to disagree.

That's actually something I would love people to sue Valve over. I want a court ruling on what our rights are with respect to owning or not owning any games on Steam.

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

Well... I don't agree with completely shutting down your account, but it's your choice whether to use Steam or not. Using Steam requires agreeing to their TOS. If you don't like it, don't use it. That simple.

Except that you've already purchased those games. You own them.

This is exactly what I've been saying about digital distribution since this whole mess started.

fuck you, valve

I guess you can pirate all your games back if your accoun ever gets shut down?

 

[J Tyran]

I am not going to try and defend Valve but they are not the only ones to pull crap like this. Just about every service changed ToS after the big Sony hack and the large class action suits, everyone decided to try and cover their arses with EULA/ToS changes like this.

Anyone remember when Sony wanted to remove the other OS options on PS3s? They basically did the same as Valve, "agree to the new terms or lose your account" or something very similar. It is all bullshit either way. I should re-read the Steam ToS, last time I waded through it there where large sections that they couldn't legally apply in the EU so they had a large list of exemptions. I wonder if they have tried to work around those.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Well... I don't agree with completely shutting down your account, but it's your choice whether to use Steam or not. Using Steam requires agreeing to their TOS. If you don't like it, don't use it. That simple.

Except that you've already purchased those games. You own them.

This is exactly what I've been saying about digital distribution since this whole mess started.

fuck you, valve

I guess you can pirate all your games back if your accoun ever gets shut down?

Yeah, but then if get caught, its still illegal, since you can't show that you own the games
also, be careful, the escapist likes to toss out bans when you mention piracy as anything other than a heinous act akin to murder

 

[Icehearted]

This is why Good Old Games advertises their DRM free NO strings attached content

Indeed. I am not a fan of digital distribution for so many reasons and this exemplifies one of them resoundingly. I may not own the rights to distribute, copy, etc, but I did buy the right to own and therefore play the game I purchased. Nearly all digital distribution castrates these rights on the user end SIGNIFICANTLY.

GOG, on the other hand, is pretty no-strings about their wares, they're library is fairly robust and always growing, and there are no idiotic consumer stamping DRM issues at all.

My preference will always be to have a physical copy, and if they try blocking that as EA has for people in the past, kindly hackers can make what is unplayable because of an unrelated forum post, playable once more.

 

[Agente L]

Just because steam TOS say you can't move class action lawsuits against valve, it doesn't mean you actually can't.

TOS like that doesn't hold up in a court.

As a matter of fact, I have no idea why companies do that kind of thing in their TOS, it's useless.

 

[CentralScrtnzr]

This just makes piracy more appealing. If Valve is so afraid of money and fame that they feel the need to screw their customers, it won't go well for them. In fact, I'd like to see a few examples of them doing just that, deleting a customer's library of games, just for all the massive negative press they'd receive. They'd never sell another game ever again.

Valve's fanbase is one of the most loyal I've ever seen, you only need to look at this thread to realize it. They pretty much have free reign to do whatever they want and the customers will bend over and ask for more. I for one am scared of this new trend considering digital distribution is becoming more prevalent. What happens if they get hacked and all your personal info and credit card info get stolen? Having all you're games linked to an account is just asking for trouble. I'll never replace my hard copies of games, and when the all digital future comes, I won't be a part of it. I'll find a new hobby.

You may be right, but that seems complete insanity to me. I can say if just one person got fucked over in this way, or really in many different number of ways, by Valve, they would never ever have from me another sale. Just blows my mind people would put their loyalty to something that takes their money over their own self-interest.

 

[Something Amyss]

Which is completely overshadowed by the "Because, EA" reason.

Which isn't true, but would change nothing anyway.

Apologetics are kind of silly, especially with corporations.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I like Steam but this is utter bullshit, the Steam rep sounded like a fucking jackass.

He didnt even answer the question. He just threatened him.

It basically read:

"I I dont agree to the TOS for my car can i still drive my car?"

"We can break your car like a twig. We can come at night. And fucking. Wreck. Your car. It can be kindling. We can make into tin cans by friday. We can do that. You want that to happen?"

I doubt the validity of the screenshot. I also doubt that valve employee keeping his job.

I defended steam recently in an argument online. If this is true im going to start recanting my words...

From a logical standpoint i dont really see what valve can do though. Every piece of software has a terms of service. You gotta agree to use it. Its a fact. It stops you from stealing from them llegally. Ever played world of warcraft? Every. Tiny. Update. Edited the TOS to include the new code in the agreement you wouldnt go around stealing shit.

So with steam, they have two options:

Never update steam in any major way to not change the TOS and not need to ask.

Or change the TOS and then ask, those that dont want to agree cant use the software.

Both kinda suck. Its fine at first obviously, the first TOS you agree to (or not) before you buy anything. After that valve has to walk a fine line. Changing TOS results in this shit. Not changing TOS means the software can make no major changes.

 

[TheScottishFella]

I just realised this, if the EU ruled, that people own their games doesn't that mean Steam is not allowed to hold your games hostage?

 

[Plazmatic]

Gabe himself said that if steam went down permanently, they have a contingency plan for thier customers, saying that you will be able to keep your games.

That statement is inherently worthless. For one thing, does "their customers" refer to Steam users or just people who bought Valve games? As far as I know, Valve does not have ownership of pretty much anything on Steam except a few titles, so will their "contingencies" extend to the third party titles that make up 99% of their inventory? Also, what if the circumstances of the collapse of Steam mean their back-up plans are rendered worthless. Best laid plans of mice and men et cetera.

Thanks for the flame, any way, he didn't use the wordage "their customers" you and your bile spewing cynicism assumed the negative, just like in the rest of your post. He specifically referred the the steam service and steam customers. Also there is the possibility that something could hamper these plans, but again, that's mainly your cynical attitude at play here, including your statement of some wildly unexpected problem is wholesomely irrelevant; unexpected events can mess up any contingency in anyone's scenario. Gabe said that in the event of either the servers suddenly unexpectedly going down and never being able to recover (but steam wouldn't tank in this scenario, they have enough money saved up for new servers in case of this scenario) and in the event of the steam as a service simply coming to an end (Gabe pulling the plug for example).

Besides, if Steam falls, then most likely so do the servers. What happens when someone wants to change to a new computer? Without access to the Steam servers, how will they re-download the titles they "purchased" on Steam?

Finally to satisfy your need to indulge in reaffirming your own negative view of the world in general, no, you will probably will not be able to access them across computers using steam if steam for some reason is gone permanently ( though Gabe never really talked about this). However, because Steam acts as DRM for most of its games, you wont have trouble simply moving the games over on a hardrive or peer to peer (and if, in the case of some Ubisoft steam games some are using other DRM methods, you'd have the same problems there as you would if steam did work).

Remember, Gabe also said we'd have Episode Three by Xmas 2007 [http://uk.gamespot.com/news/half-life-2-episode-one-gold-two-dated-three-announced-6151796].

Also Gabe Newell is a lying fat fatty who should never be trusted. You happy now?

 

[Something Amyss]

Steam has been around for, what, a decade now? And I've personally never heard of any serious shenanigans on their part (feel free to tell me about any I missed) so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment. Though if this ToS turns into a giant clusterfuck, I'll be right there with my torch and pitchfork.

Most of the complaints against Origin were ones that were prevalent with Steam for the first few years. On top of which, it's literally become true that you're (questionably) signing your rights away. That's really a big shenanigan.

You basically ARE giving them a free pass.

 

[Jamous]

This is an aspect of Steam that never ceases to make me feel uncomfortable. I mean, sure, Valve do a lot of great stuff and all things considered Steam is a fairly excellent service (until you lose internet or they decide you can't play your games); however the fact that they can essentially completely fuck us over -unbelievably- badly by locking us out or deleting our accounts or whatever is chilling. Ugh. I hate having this vague feeling of unease and distrust. It's the one thing that makes using Steam feel like a bad idea.