Well if there is one thing that this episode proves, its that it isn't NCIS with aliens anymore.
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Review - Episode 17: Turn, Turn, Turn
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
It could just be one too many twists and betrayals in such a short time, but I'm having trouble reconciling the clairvoyant with hydra. Killer cyborgs and supervillains are classics from the comics, but TWS's hydra seemed slower, more methodical, and still seemed to be trying to hold on to public legitimacy via "for the good of everyone" bit. I suppose there's Strucker's branch, but cyborgs and resurrection serums seems a bit out of Zola and Pierce's purview. Hydra's infiltration seemed thorough enough that I find it hard to think they had much information they didn't have access to or couldn't be gathered by Zola so why bother with the side prizes when ultimate victory was about to be achieved and the little pieces could be picked up at leisure?
It makes nice action, but for now, the goals don't seem congruent.
It makes nice action, but for now, the goals don't seem congruent.
Interesting theory, but Coulson's post-resurrection life has been much longer than Fury's suspicions of betrayal from within Shield. Coulson was only out of commission a relatively short while since Avengers, but Fury only caught on to Hydra's movements briefly before being attacked during the events of Winter Soldier.ExtraDebit said:
Ok, except now Hand's bleeding out, with no medical team, and Garrett does... what? Watch while Ward patches up a dead body in prep to dispose of it? That makes no sense. These bullets don't seal the wound on the way through. And you need more than a trace amount of GH### to heal a shot to the gut, Skye demonstrated that.thetoddo said:
Remember Ward acted out of character when he shot Clairvoyant Decoy #1. Wouldn't it make more sense that he was operating under orders from Garrett to ensure that he wouldn't be found out? I mean granted it didn't work very well...
Ward may be deep in cover, but he's burning a hell of a lot of bridges to do it.
Ward's supposed to be second best only to Black Widow when it comes to combat, pretty sure he can put a bullet somewhere that looks bad but isn't actually fatal, especially considering none of the three were moving targets. He had time to pick his shots and Hand (who being a Level 8 Agent can probably handle herself in a fight even when surprised) took no offensive or defensive action. Plus Hand invited him to take the shot, a nice bit of drama but I can't IMAGINE she'd let Ward actually kill the best intelligence asset they have in terms of actually hunting other Hydra cells, that'd be insane.jabrwock said:
I could be way off base, and honestly I hope I am cause this it clumsily done. I think Coulson set this up so that they could see where/who Garrett runs to. If Ward went off-script and actually killed Hand and the other two agents (I don't think Coulson would give the order to kill her) then it gets Ward off the show for going too far and keeps the door open for him to come back as a guest star or eventual villain.
I agree it was a clumsy setup, either way. I guess we'll see how it works out. The setup was a clumsy attempt to give him an opportunity to reveal himself as a traitor, and it was a clumsy (and costly) way to fake his way into Garrett's trust as well...thetoddo said:
At this point, I think the Clairvoyant is just a red herring, in the sense he/she is not really a person, but a title. A pseudonym used by HYDRA agents to refer to sleeping agents that used the leaked information they got from accessing highly classified files.jabrwock said:
Under that assumption, there are dozens (or hundreds) of candidate clairvoyants, including Garrett, Zola and Sitwell. It would also go well with the idea that you can't just kill the Clairvoyant, the same way you can't destroy HYDRA; you just kill one and another one takes his place.
There is the issue of the other agents. Hand is shown to be shoot in the stomach, and some deal was made of showing her bleeding to dead, but the other agents where cleanly shot in the head. One would assume she can fake a fatal shot if Ward is skillful enough to miss any vital organs, but the rest is not that lucky. That means, if they were up for this, that Coulson and Hand gave the order for Ward to murder those agents to make Hand's dead more believable. Even when we could guess Hand would be fine with that, I don't think Coulson would approve of Ward shooting his allies in cold blood to cover him up, even grunts, specially now that loyal SHIELD staff seems to become an oddity.thetoddo said:
I think this case is more clear. I just think Ward was an agent of HYDRA all along and, if he is lucky, he will be back on the team if he has a change of heart, but those dead are on him.
I am kind of curious how he didn't reveal himself when under the influence of Lorelai's hypnosis... Must have been some pretty deep indoctrination.
I am going to be watching to the end of the season, but I doubt I will watch a second season if there is one because of how this episode deals with the events of Captain America. I didn't have a chance to go see the movie over the weekend because of other commitments, but had full intent of going this weekend, but now my interest has been damaged because they decided to spoil elements of the movie in this episode.
As far as the episode itself goes its definitely more interesting then the first few episodes that aired.
As far as the episode itself goes its definitely more interesting then the first few episodes that aired.
you really should have expected something to be spoiled by the show seeing as last week had several lead ins and if you have seen any of the cap trailers you would have known that it would probably have a big affect on the show. I spent extra money last weekend on a taxi to an from the movie just so I wouldn't be spoiled when I watched the show this week. you could have always waited to see the show if you absolutely couldn't make the movie.Sanunes said:
It's been pretty clear that the movies and show are tied together. They can't not be. So the pattern is established. If there's an episode after the release of a movie, it ties in somehow. Some are minor, like commenting on how the elves attacked Asgard. Others, like this one, are more significant, but you can't really have Cap obliterate SHIELD, and not have all the agents in a show *about* SHIELD somehow not notice...Sanunes said:
Maybe it was a change of heart. Or it could be that it just wasn't relevant to Lorelei. Afterall, as far as HYDRA agents were concerned, HYDRA and SHIELD were one and the same. So when he says he's loyal to SHIELD, he means it. Just not in the same way everyone else does.hermes200 said:
I don't know what the hell is going on. I do find it really suspicious that Victoria would just allow Garrett's execution right there on the plane.
I thought it was a really good episode though.
I thought it was a really good episode though.
I guess this is why the release schedule's been so wonky- this episode had to come out after The Winter Soldier. Doesn't make it any less annoying. Hopefully there won't be another massive delay so the next Marvel movie (Ant-Man?) can 'catch up'.
But yes, we're finally getting rolling with the espionage now. For better or worse, for a time you felt like anyone could have been the mole, even Fitz. Sky's really going to regret giving the data backup to Ward instead of Coulson, but I'm glad it looks like he'll make his allegiances clear in the next episode instead of spending several skulking around the Bus looking like he's about to knife someone.
But yes, we're finally getting rolling with the espionage now. For better or worse, for a time you felt like anyone could have been the mole, even Fitz. Sky's really going to regret giving the data backup to Ward instead of Coulson, but I'm glad it looks like he'll make his allegiances clear in the next episode instead of spending several skulking around the Bus looking like he's about to knife someone.
next movie is guardians, ant man isn't until after A2 which is odd seeing as he created Ultron in the comics apparently, I agree that they need to make the schedule better, but they could do that by having half seasons around each movie, which would still be better than what we got especially if they each have their own story arc.WhiteFangofWar said:
Traditionally Fury was another beneficiary of research into recreating "Project Rebirth" as is Black Widow. Note that we do not really know either his or Black Widow's true back stories yet. Given that they did seem to quietly show how fast Fury healed, it is likely that something is running around inside him. Hmmm? Maybe some mysterious blue goop? Has Fury visited TAHITI?jab136 said:
I'm confused on where the timeline is this going on during the events of The Winter Soldier. Did it happen before or after
Because by the end, all the Shield agents find out about Hydra through an encryption. So, I'm a bit confused.
The Helicarrier assault and the final Cap vs Bucky fight?
Because by the end, all the Shield agents find out about Hydra through an encryption. So, I'm a bit confused.