Aim-Down-Sight is unnecessary for realism

[Something Amyss]

"Realism" in shooters. Oh dear, are we being serious?

 

[DarkRyter]

I thought aiming down the sights was about game balance.

Can't see half the screen, but you shoot more accurately.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

**snip**

Have you heard of ocular dominance? I would think from your post that you don't really have a clue what I'm talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_dominance
There's a clue.

 

[TerribleAssassin]

Actually, no, your left eye would not be seeing anything like that.

Your eyes aren't far enough apart for that.

There is nothing remotely realistic about accurate fire from the hip. In the real world, if you want to hit a target at anything beyond point blank range you raise your weapon to your shoulder and aim down the bloody sights. That's what they're there for.

This. One of the first thing you're taught when using a weapon is using the sights and getting the weapon resting on your shoulder, as it allows you to aim accurately and takes the recoil action.

So if you're that tied up about realism, you'd understand why it's in. But nice touches with the diagrams.

 

[mad825]

"What? He's crazy, this guy must be crazy to suggest that hipfire with a mysterious reticule in the middle of the screen is in any way realistic."

Well, not so crazy when you think about how the screen perspective is a single 2D perspective yet humans have 2 eyes meaning you'd get two shifted 2D perspectives, that means the parallax must be represented combining the two views into one frame.

"What? I don't follow, Parallax?"

Basically, both your eyes look the same direction but because your eyes are a few inches apart they get a different view. Like how if you look at a tree with your finger held up, your right eye sees what is slightly shifted from what your left eye sees:

Remember this picture. How does it look familiar? The finger in line to the tree, like the sight post on a gun, and then the off the the side view...

When we see the the world around us with two eyes we combine this together what each eyeball sees as the images are processed separately. But how would you Represent this in a First-person perspective which has only a single 2D frame?

Think about it, the right eye would be looking down the weapons sights and out around at the enviroment. The left eye would be looking around with a better view at the environment and see the left side of the gun in your hand.

Your left eye would see something like this:

There's a thing call eye dominance. I take it you've never fired a handheld gun/basic rifle or something. Usually, one eye takes over to process the image however if you use the wrong eye you'll lose depth perception and shoot too far left/right from where you were aiming.

Commonly, people are right eyed however there are people whose eyes are both dominant in which case it doesn't matter which eye you aim with. The idea of implementing eye dominance is just stupid and a waste of time.

 

[Doopliss64]

Your science is a little flawed but I've been saying the same thing for years. There are many instances of devs going for a superficially "realistic" option instead of an actual representation of human perception. I do have to disagree with your jab at consoles though, the stick is not as precise as a mouse but its perfectly serviceable for the majority of people.

 

[MetroidNut]

Broke out my airsoft M4 carbine to test this, because I had it lying around so why not. Looking down the sights with your right eye gives you roughly the view you get in most FPS's when not aiming down sights. There's just two problems - first, the gun would eat up the entire bottom-right corner of the screen, right up to the reticle, basically. The other problem is previously noted - you wouldn't actually keep your left eye open when aiming.

CONCLUSION: Your eyes are further apart than you might expect, but reality still doesn't quite match what you get in most games when not aiming down the sights, and in the end the argument is irrelevant anyway because ADS feels more like aiming a gun. Whether it's actually a good representation of aiming a gun doesn't matter - it feels more like you're aiming it, not just relying on a rarely-explained crosshair inexplicably hovering in the middle of your screen, so I would argue it improves immersion.

 

[The Funslinger]

Actually, no, your left eye would not be seeing anything like that.

Your eyes aren't far enough apart for that.

There is nothing remotely realistic about accurate fire from the hip. In the real world, if you want to hit a target at anything beyond point blank range you raise your weapon to your shoulder and aim down the bloody sights. That's what they're there for.

Agreed. I came here to say you'd have to be hellishly deformed if that was what you saw. Or Ice Age's Sid the Sloth.

The only nitpick I have for aim-down-sights is how unrealistically it does it. You want to look dead centre down a rifle? Don't come crying to me when your front teeth are missing and your sternum is shattered.

 

[Major_Tom]

Bullshit.

Spoiler: No eye sees this

Spoiler: Left eye

Spoiler: Right eye

Now neighbors are looking at me funny.

Also, I find it ironic that you have the Doomguy on your avatar. How did he aim?

Spoiler: Oh right, like this.

 

[ElPatron]

Well, not so crazy when you think about how the screen perspective is a single 2D perspective yet humans have 2 eyes meaning you'd get two shifted 2D perspectives, that means the parallax must be represented combining the two views into one frame.

Which is why you train to shoot with both eyes open, or if you're lazy just close one eye.

Damn it, aiming a gun is not rocket science.

The only nitpick I have for aim-down-sights is how unrealistically it does it. You want to look dead centre down a rifle? Don't come crying to me when your front teeth are missing and your sternum is shattered.

If you have a proper cheek weld and your left eye closed you can look dead center. Otherwise it becomes impossible to align the front sight since it's not canted to your side.

Video games really make it look way too easy to accurately hit a target with any sort of firearm. Hitting a medium sized target (like, say, a person) at anything over fifty meters isn't as easy as pointing and firing. Don't even get me started on shooting long distance! lol

Firearms were made so that the lowest common denominator in society can still serve in the military.

Fifty meters is a challenge with handguns, but any sort of properly zeroed rifle will allow groupings less than 1" at 50m.

A human torso is much bigger than a 1" circle.

you wouldn't actually keep your left eye open when aiming.

That's why you aim with your dominant eye. It's recommended to keep both eyes open so that you can maintain situational awareness.

Shooting from the dominant eye still allows the sights to be always superimposed on the target, though.

 

[ChildishLegacy]

Your left eye would see something like this:

While your right eye looking down the sights sees this:

But... if you aim down sights then you want to be seeing the bottom image, not the top and bottom image. How would it be 'realistic' to see the same gun model all the time and be told "it's ok bro, your right eye is aiming down the sights!" even though you can't see it. I don't care about realism, but since you're trying to say it's realistic to have a gun completely stationary all of the time and say "parallax lol", I'm calling it out.

 

[WanderingFool]

The only nitpick I have for aim-down-sights is how unrealistically it does it. You want to look dead centre down a rifle? Don't come crying to me when your front teeth are missing and your sternum is shattered.

Do you know how aim a gun?

 

[The Funslinger]

The only nitpick I have for aim-down-sights is how unrealistically it does it. You want to look dead centre down a rifle? Don't come crying to me when your front teeth are missing and your sternum is shattered.

Do you know how aim a gun?

Yes, I've grown up hunting and shooting.

If they could put some proper alignment on the guns, I wouldn't mind, but in all games with iron sights, it looks like the protagonist is sticking the stock under his chinny chin chin.

 

[CplDustov]

I always thought it was implied that the other eye was closed as the sights were brought up t the avatar's face. I'm not sure, but I believe it's not really zoom but a change of Field Of View which links to reduced peripheral awareness.

However, I imagine it's different for different games; if valve have light refracting through water etc. then there's no reason real lense physics aren't in play by this point.

 

[ElPatron]

but in all games with iron sights, it looks like the protagonist is sticking the stock under his chinny chin chin.

You're supposed to push the stock into your cheek so that the shooting eye is as close to the center of the rifle as possible.

Your shooting eye sees the rifle as if it was in the place your chin used to be.

Please, OP, let me hope you're not saying you aim your guns with both eyes open... That would be awkward.

I'm right eye dominant and shoot with both eyes open to give me peripheral view. It's only awkward if you have never done it before.

Fun story, I trained shooting with both eyes with Nerf before trying on the real deal.

 

[The Funslinger]

but in all games with iron sights, it looks like the protagonist is sticking the stock under his chinny chin chin.

You're supposed to push the stock into your cheek so that the shooting eye is as close to the center of the rifle as possible.

Your shooting eye sees the rifle as if it was in the place your chin used to be.

I know. You don't have to tell me.

But it just seems off in games, is all I'm saying.

 

[loc978]

A screen that wraps around less than 180 degrees will never come anywhere near "realistically" portraying human vision. First-person perspective games have to work with your limited hardware, so they use the center of the screen as the center of your character's focus... while attempting to provide you with a useful field of view and a representation of the weapon in your hands. This is why it's always hard to tell where your character's body is, and why first-person platforming doesn't work.
I think they've found a pretty good formula, considering how cramped even a big-screen TV is compared to human vision.