Alan Moore Refuses Rights to Watchmen

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Really, I've just lost all respect for this man hobo wannabe. He's unpleasable and hates his fans. He's pathetic and deserves no respect.

And who are you to say that he hates his fans? Have you interviewed every single Watchmen fan in the world to get the over-all consensus of who wants what? For all you know you're in the minority for wanting more Watchmen content, which would mean that if anything Moore is appeasing his fans.

So, all franchises are cash cows? Even Half-Life? Portal? Left 4 Dead? Saints Row? That's insanity.

*Sigh* You really look ignorant when you make arguments like that. Just letting you know. He never said that a franchise is a cashcow, he said he doesn't want the franchise to turn into a cashcow, thus specifically implying that all franchises are not automatically cashcows. As another person put it fairly well, a cashcow is when you continue to release sequels that degrade the value of a franchise simply because you know they'll make a quick buck. IE: This is the reason we got a fourth Shrek film despite it having ended nicely as a trilogy of movies (some people argue that even the third movie was too much). The fourth movie did nothing but cheapen the Shrek franchise, but it was a way to make some money, thus they made Shrek into a cashcow.

I'm really trying to not flame you for calling it so-so.

Yes, because threatening someone for having an opinion is a really good way to get people to listen to your own opinions.

So, Batman should instead be like the 60s show? There's a reason The Dark Knight is popular, because it should be dark. Batman's as crazy as the rest of them, he saw his parents get gunned down in front of his eyes and the city he lives in is plagued with senseless death. He has no reason to be anything but more serious than a heart attack.

Batman is the exception that proves the rule, because they found a good way to sell the whole "dark hero" thing with him. Unfortunately though, he is in the minority. Most other heroes to make the shift (or to have been created dark from the beginning) were just run-of-the-mill and boring, thus causing comics to go back into their slump after people got bored of the whole "dark heroes" thing.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Alan Moore is my favorite comic book creator, but he really needs to get over himself. I mean seriously? What is not having a copy of his own comic book going to prove? That he is cool? I thought he was beyond that. But hey, he is still the best.

Imagine you meet a girl. You fall in love, you get married. Life seems great. Suddenly, out of nowhere she wants a divorce, but it isn't just a quick-and-over sort of thing. It's the kind of divorce where she somehow turns your best friends against you, and even your own family is scolding you over the situation. Next thing you know you're living on your own in some apartment, and you need to rebuild your life from scratch. You need to find new friends, you need to mend things over with your folks, and at your age now you'll be lucky to find a girlfriend, assuming your even emotionally stable enough to want to let someone in again.

Are you really going to keep pictures of your ex-wife in your apartment after all of that? No? Yeah, I wouldn't either. Mind that I'm not saying this is an exact analogy of how things went with Watchmen, I'm just saying that there's been a lot of behind-the-scenes drama between him and DC over the past 20 years, so he's not likely to want to have reminders of that laying around. Just like you wouldn't want a reminder of the woman who destroyed your life sitting around your lonely apartment.

It's easy to be on the outside looking in and claim that someone is acting petty or stupid, but odds are that you really have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[SNIPERFOX ft. Harry P.Ness]

didnt watchem series end like 10 reas ago?

Spoiler

owl leaves ozmandius for dead or something DR.manhatten vaporieses himself and warshack etc.

 

[SNIPERFOX ft. Harry P.Ness]

also how is he going to make a sequel? every one comes back to life and gois to fight eveil robot dinosares and evil humans on the plaent zog?

 

[sosolidshoe]

Good 'ole Alan Moore, always putting integrity before personal gain.

He just sounds like a bit of a bitter old man, tbh. We're not talking about high art here, it's comic books; his stuff was good, but it's not the Illiad. Needs to get over himself, really.

 

[GothmogII]

didnt watchem series end like 10 reas ago?

Spoiler

owl leaves ozmandius for dead or something DR.manhatten vaporieses himself and warshack etc.

Did you even attempt to use the spell-checker? :/ Anyway:

Spoiler

Nite-Owl and Silk Spectre hook up, Ozymandias survives to see the results of his plans, and while it's implied those results will prove foul, he doesn't get any comeuppance. Rorschach gets vaporised and Dr.Manhattan flies off into space with the implication that he's going to see if he can create life somewhere else in the universe.

 

[elvor0]

Good man Moore, don't let them ruin it with a massive churn of sequels and prequels and crap.

 

[Syntax Error]

"The comics world has lots of unpleasant connections, when I think back over it, many of them to do with Watchmen," he said.

I don't quite understand what he means here.

Anyone care to elaborate?

The whole DarkerAndGrittier!(InsertSuperheroNameHere) trend started with Watchmen. It got really old and really pointless really fast.

It's not really that it got really old, really fast, it's just that most people who tried to follow suit completely missed the point.

 

[SNIPERFOX ft. Harry P.Ness]

didnt watchem series end like 10 reas ago?

Spoiler

owl leaves ozmandius for dead or something DR.manhatten vaporieses himself and warshack etc.

Did you even attempt to use the spell-checker? :/ Anyway:

Spoiler

Nite-Owl and Silk Spectre hook up, Ozymandias survives to see the results of his plans, and while it's implied those results will prove foul, he doesn't get any comeuppance. Rorschach gets vaporised and Dr.Manhattan flies off into space with the implication that he's going to see if he can create life somewhere else in the universe.

thank you for corecting my point good sir

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

When I think about it, it leaves me wondering when are we going to get our "Anti-Watchmen"? The comic book that does for the fun, bright, escapist titles what Watchmen did for the grim and gritty.

The Kick-Ass movie came off this way to me, I was actually very pleasantly surprised with how well it deconstructed the whole idea of superheroes and what it is and isn't to be a superhero but kept it ultra light hearted amongst the mega bad taste subtextual comedy.

 

[SnipErlite]

Good. I hope they just leave the 'franchise' as it is. Just....leave it alone

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

"The comics world has lots of unpleasant connections, when I think back over it, many of them to do with Watchmen," he said.

I don't quite understand what he means here.

Anyone care to elaborate?

The whole DarkerAndGrittier!(InsertSuperheroNameHere) trend started with Watchmen. It got really old and really pointless really fast.

It's not really that it got really old, really fast, it's just that most people who tried to follow suit completely missed the point.

Yes, and one of the points was that not EVERYONE needed to have a "grim and gritty" update. Some decent things came out of the Dark Age, like Neil Gaiman's Sandman due to being able to do new things with the medium, but most of it was a pile of juvenile junk that missed the point of "try more complex writing" instead of pumping up the blood and sexual content. And let's not even get started on the spectator bubble collapsing and the crash of the industry back in the mid-90s.

BTW, nice Amano avatar

 

[Nautical Honors Society]

Alan Moore is my favorite comic book creator, but he really needs to get over himself. I mean seriously? What is not having a copy of his own comic book going to prove? That he is cool? I thought he was beyond that. But hey, he is still the best.

Imagine you meet a girl. You fall in love, you get married. Life seems great. Suddenly, out of nowhere she wants a divorce, but it isn't just a quick-and-over sort of thing. It's the kind of divorce where she somehow turns your best friends against you, and even your own family is scolding you over the situation. Next thing you know you're living on your own in some apartment, and you need to rebuild your life from scratch. You need to find new friends, you need to mend things over with your folks, and at your age now you'll be lucky to find a girlfriend, assuming your even emotionally stable enough to want to let someone in again.

Are you really going to keep pictures of your ex-wife in your apartment after all of that? No? Yeah, I wouldn't either. Mind that I'm not saying this is an exact analogy of how things went with Watchmen, I'm just saying that there's been a lot of behind-the-scenes drama between him and DC over the past 20 years, so he's not likely to want to have reminders of that laying around. Just like you wouldn't want a reminder of the woman who destroyed your life sitting around your lonely apartment.

It's easy to be on the outside looking in and claim that someone is acting petty or stupid, but odds are that you really have no idea what you're talking about.

Honestly yea, I may have no idea what I am talking about since I am on the outside looking in.

But you have to admit the same as well, maybe you have no idea what you are talking about and maybe he is just being dramatic and petty.

My comment was not meant to insult, I just hear about him whining all the time. If he didn't want this problem then he should have never allowed DC to produce his comics, he should have known that is what happens when you distribute your art: it can easily become manipulated for popular consumption.

There is no need for you to get defensive over Alan Moore because in my post previously I stated how "he was my favorite" and"the best".

I meant no harm by what I said.

 

[Green Bastard]

I love how Alan Moore, a champion of artistic integrity and master of creative ingenuity, gets called 'batshit crazy' and 'asshole', because people actually want more of his work and he refuses to give it to them anymore.


Now, consider a similar man, of similar intellect (albeit applied in a very different way) publishes work that gets him called 'crazy' as well. Consider that this man has the same sense integrity as Alan Moore, asking that his work be used only to improve the minds of others. Both of these men have had their work perverted by those with the power to stop their work continuing altogether. The powerful use the work for personal, political, and professional gain, and realize they've made a horrible mistake after it's already too late.

As an offering of apology, those in power offer our heroes of integrity something that neither of them ever wanted - money and power. Naturally, they both refuse, and they are both remembered forever for the work they've done and the sacrifices they made.


In the wake of WWII, Einstein was offered the first presidency of the newly created country, Israel. His response:
"I am deeply moved by the offer from our State of Israel, and at once saddened and ashamed that I cannot accept it."

 

[RJ Dalton]

What an oddly capitulatory view.

Why should someone tolerate industries that have repeatedly burned him? He created this shit. If he doesn't want to write about it anymore, that's his prerogative.

He's not a young man anymore; maybe he'd rather spend his time telling a new story - or no story at all.

No, I meant about his career as a whole. I mean, he's got talent and he's brilliant in a lot of ways, but the way he reacts to things is just so . . . it reminds me of high school drama. His reaction to V for Vendetta movie, for example. I've read the comic book and seen the movie and while the comic book had a lot more complexity and had parts that I liked, the movie had a much tighter plot with less plot holes. As adaptations go, it was pretty good. While I can understand him being disappointed that they got rid of some of the complexity of his characters (particularly Adam Susan (Sutler in the movie)), he goes on and on and on.
And this now, he's more than happy to complain and whine about it, but that's it. He's making a fuss without trying to do anything about it. Even for that, it's not so much his actions, but the attitude that he has about it. He gives off the attitude that he's refusing the rights because he's trying punish the comic book company, like his absence is a loss that should somehow cripple it.
But then again, he is an artist, and all true artists are assholes on some level. It's our nature.

Gugugugu...fah? So you are trying to state that Alan Moore ended his creative vision the way he did just because he didn't want it to be filmed. You do realize that he wrote Watchmen long before the superhero movie was big and never expected it to be as huge a hit as it was, right? Also, the ending to the comic is alluded to and foreshadowed so many times, I can't conceive of it not being in the original plans for the the plot. Alan Moore does tend to be abrasive in person, yes, but don't think that you know what his motives were for creating Watchmen the way he did. In the words of Darth Vader, "You assume too much."

First of all, Darth Vader never said "You assume too much." That was Nut Gunray and gods do I feel dirty for actually knowing that name.
Secondly, this is what I read in an article. I do believe that I said "if I understand correctly," or something to that effect. In other words, if what I've read holds true (yadda yadda) but I haven't had the chance to follow up and be sure.
Thirdly, you can allude to and foreshadow an ending all you want, but that doesn't necessarily make it any less oddball. Again, this is something I still haven't been able to verify because I haven't been able to find a copy of The Watchmen.
Finally, see above.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

t's not so much his actions, but the attitude that he has about it. He gives off the attitude that he's refusing the rights because he's trying punish the comic book company, like his absence is a loss that should somehow cripple it.

He's merely adapting to the culture of business in this country. Corporations, by definition, don't respect people. Why should people respect them back? If a man can repay previous transgressions with public derision and disdain, why shouldn't he? It's not our job, as human beings, to sit quietly in the shadow of business and take our lumps happily. Nor is it our duty to magnanimously turn the other cheek towards greedy non-living entities and their subservient living parts. Really, Alan Moore is expressing himself in the manner of an individual turned corporation; he's doing what's in his best, self-defined interests with no consideration for others. I don't blame him.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

So, Batman should instead be like the 60s show? There's a reason The Dark Knight is popular, because it should be dark. Batman's as crazy as the rest of them, he saw his parents get gunned down in front of his eyes and the city he lives in is plagued with senseless death. He has no reason to be anything but more serious than a heart attack.

Batman is the exception that proves the rule, because they found a good way to sell the whole "dark hero" thing with him. Unfortunately though, he is in the minority. Most other heroes to make the shift (or to have been created dark from the beginning) were just run-of-the-mill and boring, thus causing comics to go back into their slump after people got bored of the whole "dark heroes" thing.

I mentioned Batman since he implied that was who he was talking about. I agree with you on this. Also, just making some sequels and prequels does not cheapen it.

I suppose to that I would ask what further story needs to be told in the Watchmen mythos that would make a sequel/prequel so vital?

*Snip*

Honestly yea, I may have no idea what I am talking about since I am on the outside looking in.

But you have to admit the same as well, maybe you have no idea what you are talking about and maybe he is just being dramatic and petty.

This is true, I don't know the situation any better than you do. However, I'm also not accusing him of "trying to look cool" by taking the stance that he's taking. I also haven't said anything specifically positive about the situation either, of course. I'm simply an observer on the outside who's mildly interested in the situation since I like the comic being debated over by the situation.

My comment was not meant to insult, I just hear about him whining all the time. If he didn't want this problem then he should have never allowed DC to produce his comics, he should have known that is what happens when you distribute your art: it can easily become manipulated for popular consumption.

To be fair, you mostly only hear about Moore's problems with Watchmen when DC insists on hassling him about it. So really, you're tired of DC constantly prodding him to write more Watchmen. And it's a little unfair to say that this is his fault for letting DC publish his comic. He was a DC artist, he had an idea for a comic that he hoped would inspire other artists to try new things, so he wrote the comic. He can't be held at fault because someone else decided to misuse his work.

By your logic no one should ever do anything, because if it goes sourly then it's your own fault for trying, even if it was someone else's hand that caused things to worsen.