I would hope that you would also say "perhaps I should do more research into the other claims I gave as well".FFHAuthor said:
Aliens/ancient astronauts : do you believe in them?
- Thread starter Caveworm
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Actually BrassButtons, the entire point of my arguments in this thread is that I actually do keep asking questions, not that I've stopped. Perhaps you would do well to remember that individuals who hold different beliefs than you aren't fools, they have simply learned different things. You might find the people you provide information to more willing to listen to you on other topics.BrassButtons said:
"Asking questions" IS WORTHLESS. Only by diligently pursuing the answers do we learn anything. Questions are limitless--after all, I can ask "Are demons shaking the atoms in my coffee to keep it hot?" After all, I'm keeping asking questions! Science and a rational epistemology is about ANSWERS, because only by answers do we move anything forward, even something as simple as a conversation. Tentative answers to be sure, and always open to revision, but answers none the less.
"Asking questions" is nothing more than pretending ignorance for the sake of pretending ignorance. It's ignoring the fact that there's doubt that's not reasonable.
"Asking questions" is nothing more than pretending ignorance for the sake of pretending ignorance. It's ignoring the fact that there's doubt that's not reasonable.
You didn't know that a very basic claim you were making was wrong. I'm not saying you haven't been asking question, I'm saying you haven't done basic research. Which you clearly haven't, or you wouldn't have said that Djoser and Snefru came after Khufru.FFHAuthor said:
I haven't called you a fool. Wrong, yes. Fool, no.
He's not putting a low value on curiosity. He's putting a low value on curiosity that ignores data. And there's a good reason for this--if we treat all questions as equally worthwhile, then we'll never get anything done. Moreover, he's saying that even good questions are useless if you don't look for the answer, which you clearly aren't doing (again, you would have known the timeline of the pharaohs if you had actually researched the claim about who built which pyramid).FFHAuthor said:
Could have made for a great film. Just not *that* film.the Dept of Science said:
Beside amount of accomplishments that sheer mass of collaborative effort has achieved in the past 100 years alone, the pyramids do not seem that outlandish. Back then they had fascist leaders backed by religious dogma and slavery - these days we have lots of people who learn and discover to earn a living.
You know what, I'm just going to stop. I had been hopeful of bringing up enough to make some people ask a few questions, and perhaps receive something akin to an honest and open response to them from what appears to be three knowledgeable individuals, my attempt has devolved into what discussion of this topic always seems to result in;
-You're a fool, here's why. Which I can accept, since I'm incredibly willing to hear information and learn. But sadly that need always be tinted with 'I'm right you're completely wrong and stupid for believing that'.
-I know far more than you, so why would you believe something so foolish. Which tends to be what is known as credentialism, and tends to be a fancy way of ignoring things that you don't have answers to.
-And an insult of human curiosity, from someone whose profession is based entirely upon it.
Respond as you like to what I believe, and be shocked that I'm willing to actually learn and admit to being misinformed. But don't be surprised when every time something like this occurs, those unwashed and gullible laymen out there are less likely to listen to the academics who dismiss rather than address, and who belittle rather than engage.
-You're a fool, here's why. Which I can accept, since I'm incredibly willing to hear information and learn. But sadly that need always be tinted with 'I'm right you're completely wrong and stupid for believing that'.
-I know far more than you, so why would you believe something so foolish. Which tends to be what is known as credentialism, and tends to be a fancy way of ignoring things that you don't have answers to.
-And an insult of human curiosity, from someone whose profession is based entirely upon it.
Respond as you like to what I believe, and be shocked that I'm willing to actually learn and admit to being misinformed. But don't be surprised when every time something like this occurs, those unwashed and gullible laymen out there are less likely to listen to the academics who dismiss rather than address, and who belittle rather than engage.
Why? You've got an opportunity to learn more about a very interesting subject, from people you consider to be "intelligent and knowledgeable".FFHAuthor said:
You succeeded. I did ask a few questions. I just went a step further, and researched the answers.
And that's exactly what you've gotten, at least from me (won't speak for anybody else, but I think they've been open and honest as well).
Did anyone actually call you a fool, or suggest that you're stupid for being wrong? I certainly didn't.
Again, who has said this?
If you're talking about Dinwatr, he has not insulted you. He's strongly disagreed with your point of view, but that's not an insult. After all, we're talking about someone who's scientific field had to make a rule against dynamiting each other's dig sites--when a paleontologist insults you, you'll know it
You don't appear all that willing, though. You're response to being told that you're wrong about several things, and thus probably about others as well, is to be insulted and abandon the thread. That suggests that you wanted us to agree with you, not that you wanted to learn.
I would absolutely love to be visited by friendly aliens that want to share knowledge, culture, and technology, but I don't believe we have been visited yet. Also, I believe that humans are perfectly capably of coming up with their own ideas and ways of doing things without spaceman intervention (though, like I said I would like to meet some aliens).
It seems like humans need to make themselves feel special, that they are not satisfied with just existing. No, there must be a reason and it can not be boring!
Why would a culture so advanced that they could span 100s of light years (minimum) bother with our race? As our own history has shown us we all tended to build in the same way, though some did better than others. Caves, huts, pyramids, every culture seems to have them. One could of course say its guidance of an alien civilization, but others would say there is a general scientific tree of knowledge that civilizations follow. That ideas eventually branch off of each other into other ideas.
Example: You can not invent the car before someone invents the wheel.
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I do not completely agree with Stephen Hawkings idea that advanced cultured conquer more primitive ones. This could simply be part of being human, another race may be far more nurturing.
Still, I would probably be a bit terrified if they did come. Humans fear what they don't understand, kill and squabble over each other because of it. Even if we meet "kind" aliens we may piss them off just from our personalities alone.
Why would a culture so advanced that they could span 100s of light years (minimum) bother with our race? As our own history has shown us we all tended to build in the same way, though some did better than others. Caves, huts, pyramids, every culture seems to have them. One could of course say its guidance of an alien civilization, but others would say there is a general scientific tree of knowledge that civilizations follow. That ideas eventually branch off of each other into other ideas.
Example: You can not invent the car before someone invents the wheel.
_________________
I do not completely agree with Stephen Hawkings idea that advanced cultured conquer more primitive ones. This could simply be part of being human, another race may be far more nurturing.
Still, I would probably be a bit terrified if they did come. Humans fear what they don't understand, kill and squabble over each other because of it. Even if we meet "kind" aliens we may piss them off just from our personalities alone.