This is lofty praise, sir. I enjoy Obsidian's work despite what some others think, but comparing them to TROIKA? I just don't know that I can handle that sort of praise.The Madman said:
Alpha Protocol: Your Opinion
- Thread starter Judgement101
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Are you kidding me? Obsidian and Troika are like carbon copies of each other. They're like clones or twins separated at birth they're so damned identical, creating their flawed but lovable games that are both simultaneously hated and cherished at the same time. Just look at every one of Troika's games:Hiphophippo said:
Arcanum? Spiritual successor to Fallout, but was released heavily unfinished to meet an early deadline, resulting in a game hated by some while loved by others thanks to the effort that went into the game and how mods after the games release have managed to dredge forth the potential of the game and expose it to light.
Gee, I wonder what game that sounds like? The only difference between that and Kotor 2 was that Kotor 2 was a direct sequel, whereas Arcanum was a spiritual one. And it's worth noting that Kotor 2 entered development before Kotor 1 was even released, so Obsidian essentially made up the plot as they went since they didn't actually receive a script for Kotor 1 till half way through their already short development cycle. Might as well have been a spiritual successor the plots and style are so drastically different.
Temple of Elemental Evil? Again, ridiculously flawed game hated by some while praised by others for its potential. In my case, I just absolutely love the engine and the combat, both of which are the best implementation of tactical D&D combat I personally have ever seen in a game. Meanwhile Obsidian's second game is... holy shit, a tactical D&D game, heavily flawed, hated by some while praised by others for its potential, albeit this time for different reasons. How freaky can the similarities get?
And I've already gone over the similarities between Troika and Obsidian's third efforts in a post above. Even dismissing the studio that made the game, Alpha Protocol and Vampire: Bloodlines play like they're related to one another. People absolutely hated the combat in Vampire too, and it received mediocre reviews as well upon release largely thanks to its bugs and generally unpolished feel! Good god, they're not just related, they're brothers at the very least, we're entering Twilight Zone territory now.
Both prominent PC studio formed from heavy-hitters of the rpg genre. Both known for their sharp writing and clever dialogue. And both notorious for the unfinished state of their games upon release and the sheer volume of bugs that *always* seem to be present.
And you know what just blows my goddamned mind? For both studio, the planned fouth project was FALLOUT! I kid you not. Troika lost in the bidding to get the Fallout brand against Bethesda, there was even a tech demo they released shortly before the studio went down.
And now what is Obsidian working on? FALLOUT: NEW VEGAS! They're even following the same order! My mind is blown!
OBSIDIAN IS THE REINCARNATED FORM OF TROIKA, AHHHHHHHHH!
My god this was a long post, I do hope at least one person reads it!
I have 7 hours logged into my steam account on it, here's my opinion thus far:
This is an action RPG. Super emphasis on the RPG. If you don't put points into an ability (like stealth or a type of gun or hacking, etc.) you're pretty much useless at it, forcing you to tackle issues another way. I like it a lot. It reminds me a great deal of Deus Ex and Vampire The Masquerade, and I mean that as a compliment. Though I can see how some parts of the game would be VERY difficult if I didn't play through my first time as a more combat-oriented character (how stealth characters get through boss fights, I haven't the faintest idea), I'm looking forward to seeing that on future playthroughs.
The amount of choices and cause-effects this game has is, frankly, staggering. Every mission you do, the briefing at the end often lists a half dozen choices you made and the potential consequences of those actions. EVERY speaking character you meet has a rep bar, and a lot of them look like they can be major characters or just stepping stones if you so choose. It's pretty ridiculous, honestly.
The gameplay itself is good to decent, at least as a combat-focused character. I mostly just shoot everything but once you get a few ranks in your chosen gun(s) the gunplay is pretty fun. The cover system is wonky at times but it gets the job done, though many enemies aren't content to just let you sit there anyway so there's always a lot of tension in the fights. I still have fun punching people in the face and blowing them away with a shotgun, or shooting them a ways off with an AR. The special abilities are also cool, though I think I'm on my way to being overpowered if these enemies don't take some serious levels in badass soon. The assault rifle ability of being able to lock onto enemies by pushing a button is like whack-a-mole with high caliber bullets.
Story is interesting, though I wouldn't call it exceptional by any means. It is also shaping up to be pretty basic, corrupt executive working with bad guys to make the Dollar Bills and Take Over the World, yadda yadda, though I wouldn't be TOO surprised if it's only supposed to look like that is the way it's going. The supporting cast is decent as well, and Thornton is quite the charming smartass if you want him to be
Voice acting ranges from passable to good, no stand out performances on either side of the spectrum.
As a final, and most important note...
I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY BUGS. I REPEAT. I HAVE NOT RUN INTO A SINGLE BUG.
So, there's my opinion, 7 hours in. At the end of it, and probably after a couple playthroughs (I guarantee at least 1 more, as a Jack Bauer/pistol whipping badass who tells everyone to F-Off), I'll say it's worth a rental at least for just about any rpg-action fans.
edit: Fixing stuff.
This is an action RPG. Super emphasis on the RPG. If you don't put points into an ability (like stealth or a type of gun or hacking, etc.) you're pretty much useless at it, forcing you to tackle issues another way. I like it a lot. It reminds me a great deal of Deus Ex and Vampire The Masquerade, and I mean that as a compliment. Though I can see how some parts of the game would be VERY difficult if I didn't play through my first time as a more combat-oriented character (how stealth characters get through boss fights, I haven't the faintest idea), I'm looking forward to seeing that on future playthroughs.
The amount of choices and cause-effects this game has is, frankly, staggering. Every mission you do, the briefing at the end often lists a half dozen choices you made and the potential consequences of those actions. EVERY speaking character you meet has a rep bar, and a lot of them look like they can be major characters or just stepping stones if you so choose. It's pretty ridiculous, honestly.
The gameplay itself is good to decent, at least as a combat-focused character. I mostly just shoot everything but once you get a few ranks in your chosen gun(s) the gunplay is pretty fun. The cover system is wonky at times but it gets the job done, though many enemies aren't content to just let you sit there anyway so there's always a lot of tension in the fights. I still have fun punching people in the face and blowing them away with a shotgun, or shooting them a ways off with an AR. The special abilities are also cool, though I think I'm on my way to being overpowered if these enemies don't take some serious levels in badass soon. The assault rifle ability of being able to lock onto enemies by pushing a button is like whack-a-mole with high caliber bullets.
Story is interesting, though I wouldn't call it exceptional by any means. It is also shaping up to be pretty basic, corrupt executive working with bad guys to make the Dollar Bills and Take Over the World, yadda yadda, though I wouldn't be TOO surprised if it's only supposed to look like that is the way it's going. The supporting cast is decent as well, and Thornton is quite the charming smartass if you want him to be
Voice acting ranges from passable to good, no stand out performances on either side of the spectrum.As a final, and most important note...
I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY BUGS. I REPEAT. I HAVE NOT RUN INTO A SINGLE BUG.
So, there's my opinion, 7 hours in. At the end of it, and probably after a couple playthroughs (I guarantee at least 1 more, as a Jack Bauer/pistol whipping badass who tells everyone to F-Off), I'll say it's worth a rental at least for just about any rpg-action fans.
I just got finished playing Bloodlines again a couple weeks ago, bloody great game still. Also, those are some rather strange coincidences aren't they? Far worse studios you could be reincarnated from.. Anyway, interesting postThe Madman said:
edit: Fixing stuff.
You make fine points, but I've simply spent so much time playing troika games in the past that they just hit home a little better for me. Your note of Temple of Elemental Evil could not have been more spot on though. I, to this day, think it is the best Crpg DND game ever made. I could sing that game's praises for years. And will. What I wouldn't do for a copy of it now.The Madman said:
Also, very small side note: I realize your user name is a little broad in terms of appeal, but did you ever post on DDR related forums?
I enjoy Temple of Elemental Evil for what it is: A great tactical D&D combat sorta game. The plot I found was irrelevant really, just an excuse to funnel the player from one fight to the next, and neither the characters nor the roleplaying was very noteworthy. But once I adjusted my thinking so that I saw it more as a strategy game with D&D elements rather than an rpg with tactical combat, well, I really enjoyed myself. The fights are fun, the settings diverse, and as mentioned the combat and engine running it are some of the best I've ever seen in a D&D game.Hiphophippo said:
I'd kill for a Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment remake in that engine. It would be glorious!
Surprised you enjoyed it as well. Typically when I bring up ToEE I either get an indifferent 'What's that?' or outright hatred.
As for the name, nope, not me I'm afraid. DDR is Dance Dance Revolution right? Or ya talking about the DDR memory? See, I have no clue.
So no, sadly, not me!
Fucking awesome, I really had no expectations going into it but, it's easily one of the best games this year (between top 10-20), I didn't find any bugs or anything similar, there were few technical "issues" but nothing major and honestly I couldn't care less about the graphics.
I don't really understand why people didn't like the gameplay, it works fine if you know how to play it.
I don't really understand why people didn't like the gameplay, it works fine if you know how to play it.
I have to agree, although the only issue I found was the AI sometimes being.....suicidal and thats putting it generously.Zani said:
Idea: Awesome
Weapon Mods: Fun
Dialogues: Great
Bugs: Depends on what you end up getting I've only run into a few, others have had game breaking ones
Shooting system: Really bad, cover system is nice to have though
Graphics: I don't care about them oh so much, and I thought it looked rather good
Stealth: Fun for normal levels, makes bosses damn near impossible to kill though
Time: its only about 15 or so hours long, but the choices you make greatly affect the game so you can go back and replay it a few times
And just to let you know, the only reason I even got the game is because I love spys, I almost didn't because of who was making it so really it's up to how much crap you can put up with to get to the good parts.
Weapon Mods: Fun
Dialogues: Great
Bugs: Depends on what you end up getting I've only run into a few, others have had game breaking ones
Shooting system: Really bad, cover system is nice to have though
Graphics: I don't care about them oh so much, and I thought it looked rather good
Stealth: Fun for normal levels, makes bosses damn near impossible to kill though
Time: its only about 15 or so hours long, but the choices you make greatly affect the game so you can go back and replay it a few times
And just to let you know, the only reason I even got the game is because I love spys, I almost didn't because of who was making it so really it's up to how much crap you can put up with to get to the good parts.
Wow, Destructoid was more harsh than I thought they were. I haven't played the game but it sounds like I should stay away from it.
Well I've logged 11 hours according to Steam and think it's great. The dialogue is well written (something lacking in a lot of today's games), and the timer system makes eveything a lot more tense when talking to people.
The gameplay is good, the stealth system works well, despite the enemies being borderline retarded at times, and I like the RPG elements. You acctually get a sense of progression when you level up stats, mostly because if you don't level up something you really are crap at it (most noticable with guns).
I've not found any of the bugs people seem to be complaining about (I'm playing on PC, a lot of reviews seem to be console based), the only small problem I have is with lagging controls sometimes. Although this was mostly sorted by turning the motion blur off, which was pissing me off anyway so win-win.
For those of you saying the bosses are hard if you're playing stealth, really? I've been playing a stealth character and I've not found it that hard, even managed to take out that first boss without being seen. The only bit I've had trouble with so-far is at the end of the embasy level.
The gameplay is good, the stealth system works well, despite the enemies being borderline retarded at times, and I like the RPG elements. You acctually get a sense of progression when you level up stats, mostly because if you don't level up something you really are crap at it (most noticable with guns).
I've not found any of the bugs people seem to be complaining about (I'm playing on PC, a lot of reviews seem to be console based), the only small problem I have is with lagging controls sometimes. Although this was mostly sorted by turning the motion blur off, which was pissing me off anyway so win-win.
For those of you saying the bosses are hard if you're playing stealth, really? I've been playing a stealth character and I've not found it that hard, even managed to take out that first boss without being seen. The only bit I've had trouble with so-far is at the end of the embasy level.
Not having played it myself, I can honestly say that I was unsurprised by any reviews.
The reason?
Obsidian continues their track record.
All of Obsidian's games could have been great, but they all suffered fromm high potential, low delivery. And the problem is always in the details. The overall stories they make are generally good and many of their mechanics are sheer genius (I particular liked the ideas behind the influence and the upgrading in KOTOR II), but they tend to fail at the little things. For example, the upgrading in KOTOR was a great idea, but it took very little effort to break the game with it. Similarly, the influence system was a good idea, but the small number of instances that allowed you to gain influence meant that you had to have foreknowledge of practically every one in order to get everyone (or even just most of them) to the max, which made the entire system feel artificial and ruined the otherwise good character interactions.
Nevertheless, I have enjoyed Obsidian's games. Typically the good bits are enough to counter the bad bits when taken in small doses. I will not, however, pay full price. I will most likely buy used in a year or two when the game drops to $20. I figure that way Obsidian will have gotten $60 for two people, which, honestly, is about all it's probably worth. If they can't make a game that makes the grade, they don't deserve to sell it for $60 a crack.
The reason?
Obsidian continues their track record.
All of Obsidian's games could have been great, but they all suffered fromm high potential, low delivery. And the problem is always in the details. The overall stories they make are generally good and many of their mechanics are sheer genius (I particular liked the ideas behind the influence and the upgrading in KOTOR II), but they tend to fail at the little things. For example, the upgrading in KOTOR was a great idea, but it took very little effort to break the game with it. Similarly, the influence system was a good idea, but the small number of instances that allowed you to gain influence meant that you had to have foreknowledge of practically every one in order to get everyone (or even just most of them) to the max, which made the entire system feel artificial and ruined the otherwise good character interactions.
Nevertheless, I have enjoyed Obsidian's games. Typically the good bits are enough to counter the bad bits when taken in small doses. I will not, however, pay full price. I will most likely buy used in a year or two when the game drops to $20. I figure that way Obsidian will have gotten $60 for two people, which, honestly, is about all it's probably worth. If they can't make a game that makes the grade, they don't deserve to sell it for $60 a crack.
You don't think that could possibly be because both studios were founded by ex-Black Isle staff, do you?The Madman said:
Chainshot solves all problems.Vet2501 said:
Chainshot and incendiary grenades.
That's the only combat style you need - Sneak. Shoot. Burn.
After playing through the Saudi Arabian mission area I came out of it mixed. Rough but functional is what I would probably call it. I decided to approach it as a lethal/pure stealth game and actually had a fairly good time of it once I got a few points into Pistol and Stealth.
But then I realised that much of the easy time I was having was due to the horrible AI "sight line." I remember clearly now several instances where I literally knifed some mook in the throat some 5 feet beside some other mook without so much as a startled glance. It was fun because it was too easy and now that I see that, I'm not so sure it will still be as fun. The only time I used other weapons was when the game forced me to or when I needed to snipe someone from far away with the assault rifle and subsonic ammo. So I can't really comment on the more "normal" combat aspects.
The dialogue system is quite good, more or less what I was always hoping for in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age. By that I mean that maybe THIS character won't respond to a "Paragon" dialogue choice and just make things worse instead of everything always working. It also feels very right, in an RPG sense, that my character would act like all the three "JB's" Obsidian modeled the dialogue after in certain situations. Or that maybe I actually do want to piss THAT character off so in the future something to my advantage will happen. It seems simple at first ("I want everyone to like me!") but I don't consider it too much of a stretch that if I did make everyone like me, it could turn out worse then if I didn't. This is the kind of system I hope other developers look at and decide to take, improve upon, and put in future games.
But then I realised that much of the easy time I was having was due to the horrible AI "sight line." I remember clearly now several instances where I literally knifed some mook in the throat some 5 feet beside some other mook without so much as a startled glance. It was fun because it was too easy and now that I see that, I'm not so sure it will still be as fun. The only time I used other weapons was when the game forced me to or when I needed to snipe someone from far away with the assault rifle and subsonic ammo. So I can't really comment on the more "normal" combat aspects.
The dialogue system is quite good, more or less what I was always hoping for in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age. By that I mean that maybe THIS character won't respond to a "Paragon" dialogue choice and just make things worse instead of everything always working. It also feels very right, in an RPG sense, that my character would act like all the three "JB's" Obsidian modeled the dialogue after in certain situations. Or that maybe I actually do want to piss THAT character off so in the future something to my advantage will happen. It seems simple at first ("I want everyone to like me!") but I don't consider it too much of a stretch that if I did make everyone like me, it could turn out worse then if I didn't. This is the kind of system I hope other developers look at and decide to take, improve upon, and put in future games.