Alternative medicine...
- Thread starter SckizoBoy
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Things like traditional medicines are basically just modern medicines but less refined. Homeopathy is rubbish, if water genuinely had a memory then it would remember the bodies of the minimum of 9 people wt would pass through before reaching me and I really don't want that.
By definition alternative medicine has either not been proved to work or been proved not to work.
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work?
EDIT: Also, this:
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work?
Medicine.
EDIT: Also, this:
Daverson said:
To paraphrase Dara O'Briain, at one point everything was "alternative medicine". The stuff that actually worked became "medicine".
So no. I think for the most part it's bull, or on par with sugar pills. Anything that does actually help can be found in more effective dosages at your pharmacy or on prescription.
So no. I think for the most part it's bull, or on par with sugar pills. Anything that does actually help can be found in more effective dosages at your pharmacy or on prescription.
This.henritje said:
I do strive to be an open-minded person, but I am also very careful about fuzzy business like this. I've grown up all my life with a doctor for a dad, so I know that a lot of what is said about "alternative medicine" is complete poppycock. But of course, there's probably a lot of it that isn't. But I won't experiment.
Some effective medicines are classified as "alternative" because they aren't universal enough. For example, one day I had some cranberry juice and it cured a minor urinary tract infection that I didn't even know I had (I just suddenly felt fantastic, in that department). Only after it happened did I read that cranberry is an effective medicine for this, but I guess they've done studies and some people aren't helped by it, so it's still considered an alternative medicine, even though it worked as well for me as any course of antibiotics, etc.
You seem kind of touchy. If someone doubts you, reason with them, don't blow up and go off on a bizarre rant about how the media is teh evulz. There's a difference between verified, scientifically proven medicine, and something Fox news says? I don't really understand that part.elcher said:
You notice how most herbal medicine promises to cure things that go away anyway? There's a reason for that.
Well, there's not really anything alternative about some of it, it's just been branded as such. There's no difference between taking some alternative medicines and taking a multi-vitamin or something.
Even if the alternative medicine doesn't work, there's been enough studies on the placebo effect to prove that if you think the medicine is working, you're more likely to get better on your own.
Even if the alternative medicine doesn't work, there's been enough studies on the placebo effect to prove that if you think the medicine is working, you're more likely to get better on your own.
Yeah no.Blablahb said:
I had it since i was a child - to be honest i dont know the whole medical implications of it etc. but every time i woul get sick (and that means from the beginning of my kognitive awakening) i would get a bronchitis. It would not.go.away. Doctors in the west could treat the symptoms and make me "get healthy faster" but it would still mean me lying in my fucking bed for at least 3-5 days having trouble BREATHING (which is something absolutely retarded if you ever had to endure that).
After i drank some tea out of different stuff for around 1 year i was cured. I still get sick often, but i dont have trouble breathing and i sure as hell dont lie in my bed all day hoping for it to go away.
There is all the proof that i personally need - if thats placebo (wait what, how would that even work on my lungs??) then so be it.Like religion, i really dont care what or how you believe in things as long as you dont try to manically convince other people otherwise.
PS: I am not talking about vodoo or somesuch, personally i have no experience with any of that, but of an educated chinese medicine doctor that could and would consult you to a treatment of "drinking tea" (i am not going to explain as the whole claim would just get me torn up by this whole community of know-it-alls).
Really guys, start tolerating... heck everything more.
All of these "in my opinion (herp i dont have any proof either)XX YY is happening blergh a blergh" posts/users are making me sad and furious. Why add nothing of value to a discussion except your own opinion of stuff you know nothing about of?
Alternative medicine is by definition not proved, so it's not really that bad if there are no actual treatments involved, as at worse it's generally a placebo, and at best it might actually give some benefit to the patient.
But what really pisses me off is when people reject actual medicine for quack treatments. In a world without homeopathy, Bob Marley would still be alive. The same goes for Jehovah's Witnesses who refuse blood transfusions for their children, and anybody else on the planet who has rejected sound medical advice from multiple professionals.
While dismissing the entire field would be narrow minded and indeed there is a lot of bias in the medical community towards folk remedies when anything that may work should be taken into consideration, there is a large amount of quackery and some skepticism is healthy in this topic, especially when some alternative cancer treatments literally involve taking cyanide. My general rule is that if a devoutly religious person suggests it, research it before taking up the offer. The stronger the medicine, the more cautious you should be.
Except that i am not talking about "some flu" or something like that - i am talking about "my story" with chronic bronchitis and how Traditional Chinese Medicine helped me/my body to deal with it. I am touchy because people request irrational stuff like "sources" from me, when i am neither a known scientist, journalist or anything of the kind so that i can "prove it". My proof is that i am posting here about this topic, i cant give you more than that.Ironic Pirate said:
Alternative medicine relies on placebo effects. Plain and simple. However, I wouldn't write this effect off so easily. The mind is a powerful thing and can actually cure you. If modern, researched medicine isn't working for someone, if alternative medicine allows them to believe they will get better to the point of triggering the placebo effect (provided the alternative medicine is something innocuous like herbal tea or sugar pills) then let them.
Depends on how you define "alternative medicine". Faith healing and homeopathy and all that is complete bullshit and anyone who seriously uses it as a viable alternative to medical science needs to be shot.
That said, Ancient Chinese Wisdom(tm) and things like that can actually be viable. A lot of people in the West tend to forget that China was the world leader in technology and science for several centuries (Arabs took it from them around 1000 AD, then the West claimed it circa 1600). A lot of the traditional Chinese remedies (herbal teas, acupuncture, etc) have some basis in science and as such can actually work. It's nowhere near as effective as modern medical science, and anyone using it to treat serious illnesses should die in agony, but it's somewhat effective against colds and other similarly light sicknesses.
That said, Ancient Chinese Wisdom(tm) and things like that can actually be viable. A lot of people in the West tend to forget that China was the world leader in technology and science for several centuries (Arabs took it from them around 1000 AD, then the West claimed it circa 1600). A lot of the traditional Chinese remedies (herbal teas, acupuncture, etc) have some basis in science and as such can actually work. It's nowhere near as effective as modern medical science, and anyone using it to treat serious illnesses should die in agony, but it's somewhat effective against colds and other similarly light sicknesses.
One thing which keep popping up seems to be the fact that alternative medicines do have some pharmacological effect due to some compound(s) contained within them. Of course, there are two major problems with natural products, so drug companies can't just sell them 'as-is'.
1. Variation. There is just too much variation between batches and within batches (i.e. between bottles and within bottles) in the active ingredient. One reason why we use tablets is because we can get an accurate dose to the patient. Natural products won't let us do that, leading to therapeutic failure due to underdose or toxicity due to overdose.
2. Composition. Do you know how many compounds can be contained within a plant? The answer is a lot. So sometimes for some herbal remedies, we just don't know what's causing the effects, as there may be some synergetic action between two or more compounds; or the compound could be a precursor (prodrug) to an active form of the compound. This is especially important for variation, as you can't measure variation if you don't know what's important to keep constant.
TL;DR: Some herbal medicines contain active ingredients, but in an unprocessed form, is not reliable enough to treat people.
1. Variation. There is just too much variation between batches and within batches (i.e. between bottles and within bottles) in the active ingredient. One reason why we use tablets is because we can get an accurate dose to the patient. Natural products won't let us do that, leading to therapeutic failure due to underdose or toxicity due to overdose.
2. Composition. Do you know how many compounds can be contained within a plant? The answer is a lot. So sometimes for some herbal remedies, we just don't know what's causing the effects, as there may be some synergetic action between two or more compounds; or the compound could be a precursor (prodrug) to an active form of the compound. This is especially important for variation, as you can't measure variation if you don't know what's important to keep constant.
TL;DR: Some herbal medicines contain active ingredients, but in an unprocessed form, is not reliable enough to treat people.
you want to use alternative medicine fine, just don't accept the fact that it's safe just because its "natural". arsenic, potassium cyanide, cobra venom, belladonna, these are all perfectly natural compounds. that doesn't mean they're safe to put in your body, so just think is it really worth the risk, to use something that has had no proven effect or even proven to have a negative effect just because a friend of a friend or someone on the internet said it helped them?
and yes science doesn't know everything, but as Dara O'Briain said that doesn't mean you can just make the rest up.
and yes science doesn't know everything, but as Dara O'Briain said that doesn't mean you can just make the rest up.
Pretty much my answer right here.henritje said:
I'm not a medical scientist, so I won't go saying that it doesn't work. Stranger things have happened...just be aware of it's ambiguity and marketing scams.
Y'know a lot of the "alternative medicine" is pretty much medicine as it occurs in nature, we just haven't ground it up and put it in pill form.
Aspirin is white oak bark, morphine comes from poppies, Curare is a naturally occurring tranquilizer from a few south African plants. Often people call these things quackery because they came from plants as opposed to a lab.
Aspirin is white oak bark, morphine comes from poppies, Curare is a naturally occurring tranquilizer from a few south African plants. Often people call these things quackery because they came from plants as opposed to a lab.