Am I A Terrible Person For Not Caring?

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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jFr[e said:
ak93]It seems that everyday people make a big deal out of gender equality in games.

Is it bad that I don't really care?

I didn't finish Mass Effect and think "Man, that game would have been better had there been more females".

Or play a chapter of The Walking Dead thinking "This would be better if Lee was Lea."

My point being, do people actually find a lack of female characters (playable and non) in games off putting?

Should I?

I'm not a girl, maybe that's part of the problem. Perhaps I would notice it more if I was.

I play a game for the game. The characters that come up in the game are part of that experience. Male and female. Do we really need a quota for either?
Not really, it's a pretty typical attitude. The problem is that like other forms of media extreme left wingers have largely taken over the gaming media, whether they see themselves that way or not, they cannot resist the temptation to turn what platform they have into a political one and try and sharpen their swords as "social justice warriors" while talking about games. As a result critics, reviews, and commentary, tend to largely involve a bunch of sheltered first world white boys, who spend most of their time immersed in geek culture as a justification for their job, telling us all about how the world worked, and oh how much better things would be if there were less people like them in games. Typically reinforced by some pie in the sky political ideal of the plight of minorities and the belief that if they were given more involvement in the media it would contribute towards making the world a better place.

Even The Escapist is not immune, and really the problem is almost everywhere. Exceptions exist, but you'll notice for example that Yahtzee goes off in his latest review about "more burly white men beating on black people", a big piece of gaming media right now has to do with the lack of playable females in Mass Effect. It was huge gaming news and a "social crusade" for the gaming media when Bioware decided they weren't going to have gay romance options in one of their games for a change, with "Watch Dogs" the review even here needed to include a pointless snarky one liner about the hero being "another generic white guy".

To be honest, I don't much care if we have female protagonists, if there are discretely presented gay romance options that I don't have to get involved in if I don't want to, or about the ethnicity of the heroes when it comes to games. I do however get annoyed by the political statements, and directing them at games, especially when it's one of the areas that actually reeks of "entitlement" as much as I hate using that word. For example, for all of it's myriad faults, Ubisoft has been one of the more diverse companies out there when it comes to making games if that matters to you, they have released Assassin's Creed games with both female and non-white protagonists, and it hasn't even been a long time, and yet they make one with white protagonists and it's considered some kind of huge affront, for which they need to defend themselves. Likewise the writers at Bioware who have no problem doing gay stuff when they think it fits, didn't really wind up writing any gays for "The Old Republic Online" and that was considered some kind of social attack, which is ironic when it's directed at the company that probably did more for bringing that stuff into gaming than anyone.

Of course understand that I'm also what passes for an "Arch Conservative" on these forums because I am not totally accepting of everything and anything. This is coming from a guy who has spent a lot of time being called a "hippy liberal" because of his sentiments on the rights of workers and other things. Of course then again it's ironic because I seem to be one of the few people that has any kind of experience on forums like these outside of a truly sheltered environment, or at least is vocal about it. Half the problem is when people think visiting other countries, or dealing with a "diverse group of people" socially makes you worldly, when really the context of those dealings matters a lot. Things like the Peace Corps. (not that many claim experience even with that) are pretty much a factory for naivity. To really see the world takes a degree of training and of course opportunity to look behind the scenes, not to mention occasionally walking into a potentially dangerous situation a few times. I find it occasionally odd to hear people talking about how the world works, when I doubt many people here have ever been in a really rowdy bar or club, never mind having to approach some dude and his friends to shut him off from a bar, or get him to leave to cool down, or dealt with shop lifters and pick pockets or whatever else.

To put things into perspective let's look at Yahtzee's comments about the shift of a game franchise to "urban domestic response" and how it involved burly white dudes going after black criminals. In selling that, how do you expect it's going to be if your trying to make it realistic? That's pretty much how things break down in real life, as unfair as it might seem. A lot of the problems come from tight, poor, ethnic communities who embrace crime. It's less ethnic than cultural, coming down to what guys like Bill Cosby have addressed with the "git rich or die trying" attitude where it's considered more noble to die face down in a ghetto with a gun in your hand and drugs in your pocket having tried to get ahead in the world outside the system, than to become a normal person. Basically being part of the top 1% or a criminal at the bottom are the only "noble" options, everything else is unworthy. It's a case where he (PHD in Children's Education, which is why I take him seriously) also talked about how even donating millions upon millions of dollars to these areas providing computers, textbooks, and every opportunity, the people will literally destroy the schools and materials because becoming education and learning to be a normal person is considered tantamount to selling out. It's not so much purely racial as it is a problem with a racial culture. The people don't have to be like that (Bill Cosby himself is something of an example) but choose to be because of how they are brought up. Now in a game about the military presumably intervening in civil matters in the US, doing the basic job intended for the the old NYPD "Street Crimes Unit" or LAPD's "CRASH teams" who do you think they are going to wind up fighting? It's like complaining that most of the bad guys in "Justified" are poor white trash and thus the show is racist when it has to do with location and context.

The irony of the above, and the real "point" is that when you see this situation reversed, you'll notice there aren't many criticisms from the gaming media. When someone has made a game like say "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" which is exactly the opposite side of the equasion the game gets critical praise which continues on to this day, where it is considered one of the best (if not THE best) installment in the franchise by many people. Furthermore the gaming industry has gone on to talk about how it was awesome for showing "what that whole lifestyle is about" and so on. While aspects of the mainstream media have been less accepting, it shows a general trend that when the equasion is reversed this is something you'll see an entirely different general trend of response in the gaming media. Likewise you'll see comments about how evil and wrong it is to say have cities and parts of other countries being invaded or leveled (OMG, how insensitive that your running around this island shooting third worlders), yet it gets cheers when you say see the same thing going on in a major American metropolis or something that's supposed to be one. As a result say "Far Cry" becomes controversial to the media, but a US based mayhem sandbox is just fine, the only thing "missing" is if we had less white people going on those chaos rampages...

This is longer than I intended it to be, but the bottom line is that despite how this sounds I generally don't care either. I find the social politics more annoying than anything. It would be nice if we could have a female or minority hero without people making a big deal about it in the gaming media, or people not making snarky comments every time you see a white dude as a game protagonist. That annoys me in both directions. As I've said many times before, I think the gaming media needs to understand it's *gaming* media, not a social justice platform for a bunch of geekdom immersed man-children to espouse ivory tower politics and act like it's some kind of huge affront that there isn't a playable female model in Assassin's Creed and that Ubisoft had to justify this decision since they were entitled to an answer, followed by "righteous" attacks for the answer, which would have happened no matter what they said. The very fact that this has become a "major" issue in gaming when nobody in their right mind should care is ridiculous.

On a final note, I'll say again, those who are crusading for "social justice" through the gaming media, should probably be on their knees, worshipping Ubisoft as their patron deity. I personally dislike them because of their business practices (which are far more important) but Ubisoft has basically been right there on the edge, pushing this kind of social agenda before it was a big thing. They are one of the companies that has had the non-white and female protaganists in their game series, and through things like the "Frag Dolls" they were promoting gaming girls and
running an all girl pro-gaming team before that was even a thing. I find this whole situation painful for that reason, I mean seriously, when they are accusing Ubisoft of being sexist and bigoted to make a point it's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. But then again I've never had a lot of respect for this movement, since all it seems to know how to do is mindlessly attack. You saw the same thing happen with Bioware over gay romances, when that was the company that arguably put them on the map for it to even be an issue to begin with... another "WTF are you thinking" movement from gaming media social justice crusaders attacking one of their best allies.
 

Veldel

Mitth'raw'nuruodo
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Apr 28, 2010
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Lost in my mind
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I dont really care about the only thing I do for choosing to play male or female is take turns or if the games canon is male or female like in KOTOR 1 i always go male while in KOTOR2 I always go female.
 

Kuuenbu

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Apr 15, 2013
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Blow_Pop said:
It's not that simple. Like any male dominated field, it's hard for a woman to get into and be successful into it.
But is it impossible? If the "boy's club" is as nasty as we all think it is, will they really listen to demands to level the playing field?

History is made by doing the most needlessly difficult of things. You'll accomplish more taking on a greater challenge rather than hoping for a milder one.

CloudAtlas said:
And you know what? It is my fight, my personal fight too. As a man I am not as personally affected by this bullshit, but I am affected to some degree nonetheless, and I am personally offended by the bullshit. I'm offended by developers thinking so lowly of me as a man that they believe stuffing their games with lazy ass juvenile pandering will increase the likelihood of me, as part of their target demographic, buying their games, that they believe I won't notice if their stories are full of shitty, shallow, stereotypical female characters.
It's an insult to my intelligence, an insult to my maturity, an insult to my taste.

So if being "personally offended" is the criteria for you allowing people to speak or wanting them to shut up, then even by your own (awful) "rule of thumb" everyone has the right to complain about this issue, for everyone can credibly claim to be offended just like I am.
This.
 

Blow_Pop

Supreme Evil Overlord
Jan 21, 2009
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Kuuenbu said:
Blow_Pop said:
It's not that simple. Like any male dominated field, it's hard for a woman to get into and be successful into it.
But is it impossible? If the "boy's club" is as nasty as we all think it is, will they really listen to demands to level the playing field?

History is made by doing the most needlessly difficult of things. You'll accomplish more taking on a greater challenge rather than hoping for a milder one.
For some places? Yes. And that goes for ALL male dominated fields. If enough people complain and make their voices heard, then yes, if they know what's good for them they will listen and level the playing field. History is also full of small battles won and small accomplishments helping to fulfill a larger goal.
 

lnin0

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Jul 1, 2014
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People complaining about not having a playable character of ever race, color, sex and religion is a distraction to the main issue that the game industry has always done a piss poor job of depicting female characters. Which is more diverse?
GAME A
You play as a thick necked white soldier (only choice) who engages with an array of supporting characters who are well rounded and do not fall into the typical gaming tropes.

GAME B
You can play as any number or characters: the cool, tough, white guy; the big breasted sultry female, the rapping black guy, the stoic Russian soldier or the Arab jihadist as you take on Nazi Zombies from space.
 

LAGG

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Jun 23, 2011
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The very idea that a video-game character made of polygons somehow "represents" me is nothing short of depressing. I can't undersand people wanting to be "represented" inside the fictional slice of video-game. You're the player, you're real instead of fictional, you have free-will instead of being pre-written by someone, you represent yourself.