American McGee Blasts EA Marketing

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IamLEAM1983

Neloth's got swag.
Aug 22, 2011
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EA being its usual self. What a shock.

Seriously, the marketing heads need to get their heads screwed back on. I'm well aware the most developed market of the moment tends to mostly revolve around horror or CoD, but come on. Those ads for Dante's Inferno, Dead Space being presented as a "game your Mom will hate"?

Please, EA. We're not all petulant thirteeen year-olds just itching for a chance at mild teenage rebellion. We're not all horror buffs or part of the shooter crowd. There's a bigger market out there than just the kid who likes edgy stuff for its purported edginess.
 

Soviet Heavy

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Jan 22, 2010
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Why does this sound familiar....OH RIGHT.

Trailer is great, Manson is great, representation of the actual game? Not new shit, utter shit.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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As much as I don't care for EA, it sounds to me like American Mcgee is trying to cast blame on other sources for his own failure. Going after the marketing department seems like something being done when they can't blame other more likely things like not being given money, or creative direction (notice he doesn't say he didn't make the game he wanted to). Probably this is a last ditch effort before his newest game under his new Chinese publisher given that his reputation does seem to have suffered more than a bit compared to one-time super stardom.

I find it kind of hilarious to hear someone accusing a company of trying to cater to hardcore horror fans, since that basically doesn't happen. It's very rare when we see things like "Dead Island" and the kind of production and marketing it's been doing. In general you tend to see most "horror" titles casualized, and toned down so as not to offend or disturb anyone, with them being turned almost entirely into "Bro-fest" action games. The typical complaints being that games like "Resident Evil" and "Silent Hill" just aren't horror games anymore.

To be honest, I'll say that while "Madness Returns" got some decent review scores, most reviews I read of the game talked about it being repetitive, with you doing the same thing again and again, with a lot of useless weapons tacked on since once you got the pepper-shaker cannon there was little reason to use much else apparently, and apparently a very bad combat system where it was nearly impossible to tell how much damage you were doing to targets, and things like that. My personal observation seemed to be that people were reluctant to slam it too badly because of the "American Mcgee" name, but ultimatly there weren't many people even in "positive" reviews that seemed to be saying how great it was. I'm not saying there weren't any, just not many I ran into.

To be brutally honest, I think if someone DID do a hardcore horror title out of this kind of stuff it would probably sell pretty well, but your not likely to see it specifically because publishers tend not to have the guts. For example if someone was to take the characters and mythology (as far as it went) from Mcfarlane's old "Twisted Land Of Oz" figures with all the sexuality and ultraviolence (Dorothy in bondage gear, etc...) and turn that into a game I could imagine it doing pretty well.

I'll also say that I think the "it's all in her head" thing kind of hurt Alice. See, even in hardcore horror the people watching/reading/playing it typically want the protaganist to survive and be okay.. well if the game is designed correctly and people like their character(s). This adds more impact when things happens to them, and so on. The problem with Alice to an extent is that while it's not hardcore horror, it's ultimatly an exercise in futility, I mean even if you get Alice to lapse back to sanity it's not like we're dealing with a story that is likely to have a happy ending in any way, shape, or form. I think the whole "why bother?" question affected the game, as I hardly to be the only one with these thoughts. Not to mention that places like Oz, Wonderland, etc... tend to be more exciting if they are portrayed as real as opposed to just delusions.... or in short, while not "hardcore" horror, I think as a premise Alice was lacking in any degree of hope. People play video games, even really dark ones, for escapism, while games that are explorations in despair, isolation, and futility, might score high among the arthouse crowd, it's not something that I think can be directed at a mainstream product.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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I can believe that. Although... if EA wants hardcore horror fans' money so bad, why are they moving Dead Space, their biggest horror franchise, away from horror?
 

Tom Artingstall

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Sep 23, 2011
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"[These trailers drove] away more casual customers, like female gamers, who might be turned off by really dark trailers," he says. The game was not exactly directed towards a casual audience, but the developer argues that presenting a strong female lead coupled with a lighter tone would have made the game a bigger success.
I'm not the only one slightly PO'd at that bit am I? "Oh no! We might upset the females if we're too violent!" The implication that female gamers are by default the casuals and that they're only interested in light-hearted games or games with female protagonists.... Urgh. This is why we can't have nice things.
 

Lunar Templar

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Sep 20, 2009
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Sgt. Sykes said:
I for one didn't buy AMA because it requires origin. Even though I loved the first Alice.
um ... no ...

i should know, i have it, got it through steam, no origin required
 

Eternal_Lament

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Sep 23, 2010
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I don't think EA was at all misleading. The game was indeed fairly bloody and dark, and was at least trying to emulate aspects of the horror genre. In fact, the trailer that McGee was criticizing was the first cutscene of the entire game, so it wasn't even like it was a game that would be building up to the violence, it just starts there.

Besides which, I find his assertion that women didn't pick up the game because it seemed to dark rather strange. I'm not sure of any statistics, but I would like to assume that if any adult, male or female, chooses to not play games with darker tones then it is based off of their preference and not their gender.

If that game lost any sales, it was probably because it was a fairly mediocre game. Interesting concept, but substandard gameplay and constantly loading screens do not make for an enjoyable experience. This just sounds like McGee trying to save face just in time for Akinaro, so that if anyone asks about the lack of success with his previous outing then he can put to someone else as the problem.
 

Somebloke

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Aug 5, 2010
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Heh... Remembering my own griping, right here on these forums, about how the marketing for Mass Effect 3 almost managed to completely put me off the game, despite just how impatiently I had been awaiting the last part of the trilogy. :p
 

Yokillernick

Senior Member
May 11, 2012
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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
EA abusing a company and its games for sheer profit. Must be a day that ends in Y.
Make that -day. Have to agree with you there. I just don't get what's so wrong that marketing departments, not just EA, have to make those long CGI trailers that say fuck all about the game. Why can't marketing departments just present what's there instead of trying to trick people and then suffer the backlash of hate and anger?
 

Kaymish

The Morally Bankrupt Weasel
Sep 10, 2008
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well he is right on my count i was seriously considering buying the game but in the end after seeing the trailers i decided against it and i dont think having to watch a lets play to get a more truthful look at a game is some thing i should have to do
 

Jack_in_the_green

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Mar 22, 2011
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Here's an interview to American, while introducing his new webpage game "Akaneiro: Demon Hunters". He goes at length with the EA issue regarding Madness Returns and some. I think what he says is preetty telling.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/american-mcgee-the-man-the-brand-6402620/?tag=Topslot%3bAmericanMcgee%3bAmericanMcgeeTheMan
 

satsugaikaze

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Feb 26, 2011
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Sgt. Sykes said:
Lunar Templar said:
um ... no ...

i should know, i have it, got it through steam, no origin required
Steam or Origin, same shit. I meant the disc version.
I don't know about now, but I preordered A:MA and on launch it was completely optional to pair off the game with Origin/Steam. It could have been installed as a regular-ass game standalone on your desktop (which I guess is actually kinda rare these days, huh.) You still needed to login with an EA account, but that's been standard for most EA games since the Mass Effect 2 era.

Origin proactively added A:MA to its games list if you chose to install Origin.
 

shiajun

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Jun 12, 2008
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Eternal_Lament said:
If that game lost any sales, it was probably because it was a fairly mediocre game. Interesting concept, but substandard gameplay and constantly loading screens do not make for an enjoyable experience. This just sounds like McGee trying to save face just in time for Akinaro, so that if anyone asks about the lack of success with his previous outing then he can put to someone else as the problem.
I never felt that were that many loading screens. It happens mostly between chapters of each level. On the gameplay aspect, I enjoyed it, though I can understand why some people find it unstimulating. I think the industry has a trend of trying to cram as many different types of gameplay as possible into one game. Some developers pull it off, many don't, but it has made gamers expect this plethora of activities. I've seen people complain that there was too much jumping......in a platform game??? Anyway.

On another point, I don't get why people thought this game would be a horror game. The first one wasn't and all the gameplay and previews never pointed to horror ala Silent Hill or Amnesia being important. It always was about finding a way through the twisted images Alice has created in her head and rescueing some sliver of sanity. Literally battling her inner demons.
 

RWillers

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Mar 17, 2010
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I liked the game, I really did. In my opinion, the levels were beautiful, the story was nice and engaging, and the "creepy" factor was there, specially for the Dollhouse level. But the game wasn't great. The platforms and combat system were fun the first few times, but after that it was just frustrating. And never mind the fact that the levels went on and on and on and on (Hatter's Domain, anyone?).

I remember reading a couple of reviews saying that the levels were fun at first and then they became a drag. And it was true! I think that's what was wrong with the game. Again, the levels were beautiful, but that wasn't enough to impress the reviewers or those players who like to recommend games to their friends.

As for the trailers, they weren't great but they weren't bad either. I think it'd have been better if they showed more gameplay instead of those CGI trailers, like the launch trailer.

In the end, I think American McGee is just trying to make people like him by jumping in the "Electronic Arts is the devil!" bandwagon. Maybe the game just wasn't as good as he thought.
 

Eternal_Lament

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Sep 23, 2010
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shiajun said:
Eternal_Lament said:
If that game lost any sales, it was probably because it was a fairly mediocre game. Interesting concept, but substandard gameplay and constantly loading screens do not make for an enjoyable experience. This just sounds like McGee trying to save face just in time for Akinaro, so that if anyone asks about the lack of success with his previous outing then he can put to someone else as the problem.
I never felt that were that many loading screens. It happens mostly between chapters of each level. On the gameplay aspect, I enjoyed it, though I can understand why some people find it unstimulating. I think the industry has a trend of trying to cram as many different types of gameplay as possible into one game. Some developers pull it off, many don't, but it has made gamers expect this plethora of activities. I've seen people complain that there was too much jumping......in a platform game??? Anyway.

On another point, I don't get why people thought this game would be a horror game. The first one wasn't and all the gameplay and previews never pointed to horror ala Silent Hill or Amnesia being important. It always was about finding a way through the twisted images Alice has created in her head and rescueing some sliver of sanity. Literally battling her inner demons.
Maybe it was because I had it on the PS3, or because it was used, but I found that there were a lot of long loading screens, whether it be from reloading a checkpoint or transitioning to a new area, not just a new chapter. Gameplay wise though I actually didn't like when they tried to add some new or random gameplay elements, such as the submarine section or 2D area, as they sort of felt tacked on. My issue with the gameplay was that things felt a little bit too floaty, and I don't mean Alice's ability to glide, I mean that things sort of just felt loose. The controls, the placement of platforms, the reaction to jump inputs, it all felt a little bit too free and loose in my opinion. That and the combat never really felt fulfilling enough to enjoy

As for the horror element, all I said was that the game seemed like it was trying to emulate one, not necessarily be one. What I mean is that the aesthetic certainly seemed to lean in that direction. Consider this: the original Alice was more of a dark fantasy setting a la Dark Crystal, where there were definitely portions that looked serene but there was definitely a certain maliciousness to it, the only exception being the final boss that takes place in some abyss. By contrast, Madness Returns seemed to veer more towards the horror angle, what with the black sludge, evil eyes, and doll parts everywhere. In fact, the last level (not the train, but the whole doll-house world...god that thing was bland) seemed to be more like the set of Saw more than anything else. So while the game's overall theme is more suited for lunacy as you say, there were definitely designs there that were trying to ape or at least capture parts of horror.
 

Voulan

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Jul 18, 2011
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Tom Artingstall said:
"[These trailers drove] away more casual customers, like female gamers, who might be turned off by really dark trailers," he says. The game was not exactly directed towards a casual audience, but the developer argues that presenting a strong female lead coupled with a lighter tone would have made the game a bigger success.
I'm not the only one slightly PO'd at that bit am I? "Oh no! We might upset the females if we're too violent!" The implication that female gamers are by default the casuals and that they're only interested in light-hearted games or games with female protagonists.... Urgh. This is why we can't have nice things.
I have to admit, I agree with American and I love Alice, but this comment he made brought out a little bit of anger. I love Alice because it's so dark, and I'm certainly no casual. You almost had my full support, American.
 

jackpipsam

SEGA fanboy
Jun 2, 2009
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"[These trailers drove] away more casual customers, like female gamers, who might be turned off by really dark trailers,"

Oh please, EA was showing us what a sequel to the first Alice game should look like.
Madness Returns failed to capture the feel of the first game.

Besides, CGI trailers often show things which aren't in the game.
You blame EA for that.


PS. I find it fishy that MeGee is bringing this up NOW as he is looking for money for his already finished game.
He had plenty of time to bring this up in the past, but he choose now to do it.

Sorry but I can't EA for Spicy Horses failure game.

Sgt. Sykes said:
I for one didn't buy AMA because it requires origin. Even though I loved the first Alice.
No it didn't :p
 

Tradjus

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Apr 25, 2011
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I definitely agree with his last point, the entire Industry is due for a massive crash.
It'll be all the big names, all of the old Gods of the industry, EA, Activision, Konami, Capcom, we're already seeing it with THQ, a time of reckoning is truly coming, and these companies will be ill equipped to survive it.
In the end though, it'll be a good thing. The companies will fall apart, their dessicated corpses will be picked over for IP by lots of springy younger businesses, and we'll get a new generation of old titles made by people with actual energy and love for the properties.