American McGee Wants Upset SimCity Gamers to "Relax"

Snotnarok

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Lovely Mixture said:
Snotnarok said:
I think the problem is that EA/Maxis were lying to everyones faces to shove their crappy DRM on everyone claiming it was needed for social features that no one wanted. Even if they did, a single player/offline option would have been very easy to do and they instead chose to give pirates the better experience so they could push future DLC for the game.

I do think people who bought Diablo 3 & Sim City get what they deserve though, you bought a game with Always Online DRM, what did you expect? You paid 60 bucks so you could ask a company every time if you have permission to play their game. "No sorry the servers are down" "Game in progress? Oh sorry maintenance in 15 minutes." "Sorry you can't play our game, you're not online."
Don't buy it and play a better game, Sim City 4 anyone?
You know that's an interesting point.

If AM was saying: "Don't complain, you should have expected this." We'd be agreeing with him

Instead he's saying: "Don't complain, EA and Maxis didn't mean for this to happen... so you should put up with their bullshit."
Yeah, who doesn't want things to work out with their game so they can make money? Duh that was obvious and I'm not sure why AM pointed that out. The problem was the lying and them getting caught and not even apologizing, they just gave more lies and excuses and refused to fix the issue. I was interested in SimCity but the always online DRM instantly made me say, no because that's just stupid. The recent news saying what's been going on with it just make me want to invest in their older SimCity titles to show "this is what we want not your always online DLC pusher crap".
 

zumbledum

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Damn did i accidentally visit kotarku ?

lets see, take a headline out of context make it sound like hes saying something totally different to what his point was a and go rage bait? Check.

grats escapist another nail in the coffin of your journalistic coffin. oh wait i take it back after reading the original article its clear your quoting someone who is miss quoting someone else. bravo!


"People need to relax a little and stop turning everything into World War III ? Gamers vs. The Man. There are no winners in that scenario."

is what he said. and you know what hes right. hes not denying you have a right to expert a level of service hes not saying your in the wrong the blame sits squarely where it belongs, all he is saying is the media fueled hysteria doesnt actually solve anything or help anyone.
 

Lovely Mixture

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zumbledum said:
Damn did i accidentally visit kotarku ?

lets see, take a headline out of context make it sound like hes saying something totally different to what his point was a and go rage bait? Check.

grats escapist another nail in the coffin of your journalistic coffin. oh wait i take it back after reading the original article its clear your quoting someone who is miss quoting someone else. bravo!
How is it any different from what he is saying? You yourself quoted him:

"People need to relax a little and stop turning everything into World War III ? Gamers vs. The Man. There are no winners in that scenario."
And I see no difference between this and the headline. If anything the actual quote makes me more annoyed than what the headline said.


zumbledum said:
is what he said. and you know what hes right.
He's essentially saying "if you're overreacting, don't overreact." Ok, fine words of wisdom I guess....Anything we don't know?

zumbledum said:
hes not denying you have a right to expert a level of service hes not saying your in the wrong the blame sits squarely where it belongs, all he is saying is the media fueled hysteria doesnt actually solve anything or help anyone.
And him saying "don't complain" doesn't help the problem either. See where I'm going with this?

Let's go through it.

There are right and wrong ways to solve the problem, for sure. Customers have a right to expect that products they?ve purchased perform as advertised.
Good so far.

That being said, developers and publishers face extinction if they can?t solve the piracy issue while at the same time addressing the demands gamers make regarding connected and accessible games (I see these two things going together).
If only the the issue were that simple.....which it isn't. And saying that they "face extinction" is a huge exaggeration considering DRM-Free options.


Being in China all I see are companies who have solved these issues and customers who are happy with the results.
Ok fine, Mr. McGee. Then why don't you TELL US WHAT THEY DO DIFFERENTLY THEN?
My skepticism just soars through the roof here, cause I'm reminded of China's own piracy issues, their rampant plagiarism issues, and their censorship issues which extend down to people's messages being removed on Chinese forums (political or videogame related) when they point out the anything negative.



Western developers have some obstacles to overcome before they get there.
Such as.....? We need examples Mr. McGee.


Not sure I see how incendiary media coverage or player reactions are warranted when things don?t work as expected.
Players shouldn't react to their problems?
Media shouldn't point out how players are reacting to their problems?



Do gamers or the media think EA or Blizzard wanted things to go so badly at launch? Do they think all the screaming and gnashing of teeth actually helped resolve those issues more quickly?
I already addressed this, but I'll do so again.

You think everyone just thought the launches of both games would go smoothly? No, they didn't, there was consistent warning from the fanbases and predictions of bad launch results. Lo and behold, they were right!



There?s got to be a balance to the relationship.
I agree. But here we don't have a balanced relationship.



Just because you?ve given a restaurant your business doesn?t entitle you to throwing molten cheese fries in your waiter?s face if your margarita comes out frozen instead of on the rocks.

No it wouldn't. But filing complaints is nowhere near that heinous.

If Maxis and EA's offices were getting vandalized cause of this, that would be bad. But it wouldn't invalidate the calm and rational complaints of others.
 

gibboss28

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Gethsemani said:
Kevlar Eater said:

Seriously. I'm freaking waiting.
Couldn't find the source for Crysis (still looking). So how about the 4-5 pirates per paying consumer of the Witcher 2? [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114429-The-Witcher-2-Pirated-Roughly-4-5-Million-Times-Says-Dev] or the list that shows that Crysis 2 was pirated almost 4 million times from one site alone during the first year? [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.336755-TorrentFreak-Reveals-Top-Pirated-Games-of-2011] You can put that number of pirated copies of Crysis 2 in comparsion to the ~640,000 copies it has sold. [http://www.vgchartz.com/game/35003/crysis-2/] Comparing the Torrent Freak number to the VG chartz numbers also tells us that for every gamer who legally purchased Crysis 2 during its' first year another 9 downloaded it via a BitTorrent affiliate.

So yeah, I think my point totally stands.
Just to point this out. Your first link is made invalid by the second.

Anyway, OT: yeah SimCity gamers should keep calm. They should keep calm when they uninstall it, they should keep calm when they return it, and they should keep calm when they use the refund on something worthwhile and preferably something that actually works. Yeah, I do consider it to be a broken game.
 

PunkRex

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Frostbite3789 said:
PunkRex said:
Guy would have a good point... if it was the first time. EA does this constantly, if it was a one off I doubt people would be as mad.
Show me another EA game with always online that went this badly. Battlefield 3 worked fine for me at midnight on release, as it did for most people.
I was refering to shitty buisness practices, not online mishaps. My brother actually wants me to play BF3, is it expensive, the subscription I mean?
 

maxben

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Gethsemani said:
Gorrath said:
I find his whole spiel to be quite humorous. Gamers didn't turn this into WWIII, the publishers did when they decided that protecting against piracy was more important than the user experience of their paying customers. Why is it so hard for publishers and developers to understand that if you're going to cram DRM into your games, and that DRM causes your game to be unplayable, the people who paid you have good reason to be pissed.
And the reason we have Draconian DRM schemes protecting games these days in the first place is because "gamers" like to not pay for their games, like at all. Just look at Crysis, which was torrented more times from Pirate Bay then it sold actual copies. I am not going to defend EA or always-online DRM, but we should at least be clear with the fact that this kind of respectlessness fully extends both ways. Whoever started it is kind of irrelevant, what matters is that as long as a majority of PC gamers aren't willing to pay for their games and are ready to obtain them illegally instead, we'll be seeing draconian DRM solutions, simply because the developers and producers want to get paid for the product they made.
But the pirates are not being hurt, paying customers are. You cant refer to the general group "gamers" in this instance, as those who DO pay are not at all responsible for those who do not. Penalizing your paying customers for the actions of thieves is bad business practice. Collective punishment is hardly legitimate
And why does it not hurt pirates? Because it does not matter how long it takes, even MMOs get cracked and emulated. Pirates were not going to buy the game anyway and will wait for the cracked version. In fact, based on how many issues the game has had, pirates will get a far superior experience when they finally get their version. It will also be offline and have local saves.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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Well just f*** that guy.

But no honestly, they may not have WANTED it to go so badly at launch, but they certainly KNEW it would. They made a calculated risk by including always-online DRM. And where everbody getting along means more of that s***, no, start a riot instead. And to address the stupid analogy, while assault is an offence, I don't think it's unreasonable asking for a refund on a meal you can't eat.

And to address piracy, I know people who are generally legitimate customers and would have bought the game had it not been shackled with this bullshit. What they're going to do about it I'll leave up to your imagination, but suffice to say it's a nice bit of irony.
 

Frostbite3789

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PunkRex said:
Frostbite3789 said:
PunkRex said:
Guy would have a good point... if it was the first time. EA does this constantly, if it was a one off I doubt people would be as mad.
Show me another EA game with always online that went this badly. Battlefield 3 worked fine for me at midnight on release, as it did for most people.
I was refering to shitty buisness practices, not online mishaps. My brother actually wants me to play BF3, is it expensive, the subscription I mean?
BF3 doesn't have a sub? The expansion packs are a bit pricey, I only have the base game and B2K, because I pre-ordered, but I really like it.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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gibboss28 said:
Just to point this out. Your first link is made invalid by the second.
Only if we assume BitTorrent is the only source people use to pirate games, and I don't think I need to find sources to tell you that it isn't. Since link 1 refers to all the pirated copies of the Witcher 2 that CD Project Red knows about and link 2 refers to the statistics from BitTorrent alone, they are not contradictory.
 

Nazulu

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Jun 5, 2008
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He didn't think this one through. I saw the title and was looking forward to all the happy reply's.

Seriously though, can he even comprehend how annoying DRM is? Is he so blind that he can't see that it is chucked into so many games and it really does screws the experience? Can he not understand that all these businesses needs to do is create a vision that caters to both preferences and not make it such a hassle just to get into the game?

Everyone's so fucking sick of the bullshit and McGee's message is absolutely pointless.
 

Norix596

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Did they intend for the games to not work? Obviously not. Does that excuse them from the blatant lack of stress testing in a critical aspect that would make a $60 product unusable? Hell no. If publishers are going to insist on always-online connection being required for a game to function, they had better well stress test the hell out the product and should hear angry criticism when they fail to do so. Those who preordered the game (unwisely) gave their trust and were the ones harmed as a result. If publishers don't have the decency to sell products that work they don't deserve that trust and instead deserve this criticism so that they don't do it again.
 

Lightknight

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I'm not sure any one person is in any kind of position to tell consumers how to respond when companies force something on players that is unnecessary and yet ruins the game at release.

Whether or not Blizzard or EA 'wanted' the launch to blow up is besides the point. They forced always online on the consumers who preordered or purchased the game at full launch price. Essentially, the best customers the game industry can possibly have. The ones that don't have the patience to wait, the ones passionate about the IP, and the ones with expendible cash. Screwing them over is biting the hand that feeds you moreso than any other customer demographic.

You pay top dollar for a brand new copy of the game instead of waiting a week for a slightly reduced preowned (for a week) copy to hit the shelves. If you're sold something that does not work at the premium price you should be mad and certainly don't need to hear others telling you that it's not their fault. It is. They made a calculated error.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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While we're throwing around shitty analogies about beverages, defending EA for failing to deliver paying customers a product that works is like drinking the Kool-aid and then insisting that everyone else should join you in a round of Kool-aid because it'll help you 'relax'.

Hmm, that wasn't very subtle.
 

Quellist

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Oct 7, 2010
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baarserik said:
Well, yeah, if your waiter brings you a frozen margerita its one thing, but if he decides to take a dump on your plate and tries to convince you its steak, then i think you have the right to be upset.
Thank you for nearly spilling my tea all over my laptop, oh man the image in my mind...

On Topic: Nice try Mr McGee, but i think you are understating the problem a great deal.
 

DanDanikov

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If we're going to make a restaurant analogy of this.... good old games, they were happy to sell you the recipe. You could take it home, cook for your friends, some might even copy it, but most decent people would go out and buy the recipe themselves.

But then the cooks started feeling that they were losing money from copying recipes, so they switched selling cooking kits and refusing to disclose the ingredients. Some people reversed-engineering the recipe and would share it amongst themselves, saying this was madness. Others, well, it didn't matter so much, as long as it cooked right- it was a bit frustrating that their friends had to bring their own kits to parties, but not the end of the world.

But this wasn't good enough, they were still losing potential money. So, now, it's escalated to the point that you can't take anything home any more. You have to go to the restaurant, and the cook won't serve you a whole meal, just morsels, one at a time, as you eat them. Only, the restaurant is really popular, they're turning some people away, but there's already too many people and the kitchen can't keep up. The chef insists that everyone must have a restaurant experience and it's the only way the meal can work, but people are sitting there with empty plates, faces are pressed against the window, there's a huge amount of justified frustration, and the real kicker is- everyone's paid for their meal already. You can't blame them, a lot of them like the food, when they get it.

Gabe Newell gets it totally right when he says it's a service problem. It isn't that the core product necessarily sucks, it's that the service is truly horrendous. That's why people are still paying, but making a huge fuss.
 

Sprinal

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Relax... Really? That's what they want us to do?

Well considering that they want to use smoke and mirrors as well as simply obtain more currency it makes sense.

However they release a broken product.
It doesn't work.
Then they make claims about what it simulates...
so all the sims have their every day lives
yes they all live in every house and work everywhere... Yeah I didn't know in modern cities everything was shared...



Anyway from what I established they lied about features and then sold it based upon those.

I just hope they get taken to court over it. In at least one of the countries it was distributed to.

Anyway I personally have just re-installed Simcity 4 in celebration of EA's stupidity.


But I suppose that's not the point
The point is it's no use defending a faulty game. It's like defending Mass Effect 3's ending.
The community is still going to hate you for it.
 

Magmarock

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Okay if Blizzard and EA didn't want this to happen then they shouldn't have used the always online DRM simple as that.