Anarchists?

[Megacherv]

-snip-

Oh, and...wait...dammit, still nothing...

Well, it's difficult to argue against someone who is basically saying "Individuality - fine. But remember: We're all stuck on this planet together - no one can just leave to another star system if he/she disagrees with others... so, there goes your "interaction out of free choice for mutual benefit". Like it or not, there are limits to "ignoring each other, if one doesn't agree with each other." At some scale, people afffect each other, and there is no place elsewhere to go avoid each other. Alpha Centauri may seem like a nice place, but it's rather far away

Yeah, shame as well, I hear the housing over there is FANTASTIC.

But it's not really meant to be about individualism, nor against it. You did say that giving power to groups means giving power to individuals, but it realy means that those individuals can all say how the group does things.

The basic idea of anarchy is a state-less nation, where there is no 'Man'. (I think) there are other idelogies that are slightly different, but that's its basic principle.

 

[Stackle]

Why does anarchy need to exist? Because fascism and authoritarianism exist. If extremists exist at one end of the spectrum, the majority of people, who are somewhere in the middle in the spectrum, will eventually succumb to them unless they do something drastic. Anarchists exist to help balance out extreme fascists, and vice-versa.

 

[Lyx]

@megacherv:

Just a little correction: I actually meant the opposite of "giving power to groups, means giving power to individuals". My argument is that "the group" is NOT identical to "the individual". Giving priority to one, is not the same as giving priority to the other one - that would make no logical sense (if there is no difference between group and individual, then why even make the distinction?!?). Instead, my view is that both aspects matter:

If you over-prioritize the individual, the big picture gets lost - so, basically "reductionism". You may get super-competent individuals, but higher level coordination will be awful. On the other hand, if you go the fascism way, by prioritizing the group over the individual, the whole house of cards will fall down, from top-to-bottom... and that is for all to well known reasons: Groups consist of individuals. If the individuals no longer critically check group-policy, the whole group will corrupt sooner or later - because where individuals no longer check what happens with them, but rather follow policies blindly, it is only a matter of time for abusers to become active.

So, in short: I think that optimally, both aspects should interact efficiently and mutually: individuals create and collaboratively check group-policies, so that the group policies are fair to most individuals. Thus, i do not disagree with higher-level "coordinating bodies", but i disagree with how in current societies, those coordinating bodies are used to replace the decision and resposibility of individuals (mind you, with the full agreement of said individuals - the population may whine all day, but in the end, they want a big daddy to decide and be responsible for them.... which imo is the root problem).

 

[Nukey]

A truly anarchic society is impossible becuase there will always, always be someone in charge of the masses, whether it be someone who simply organizes a business or something along the lines of a gang leader. People like order and things to be structured, as do all living things.

 

[Dr Snakeman]

Anarchism is possibly the dumbest belief that anyone could hold, next to Scientology. Anyone who thinks it's even remotely possible is deluding themselves.

Enlightenment thinkers in the 17th and 18th centuries already figured this out. Without ordered government, human life is "nasty, brutish, and short". This is because people suck. "If men were angels, no government would be necessary."

But they aren't, so it is.

 

[Dr Snakeman]

You want anarchy? Go to Africa, where your wife gets gang-raped while they hack your head off and conscript your children, because your grandmother's tribe has a different name.


Anarchy is a horrible joke that teenagers cling to because "the man like, puts them down, and stuff."

Again, that's not the definition of anarchy. It's meant to be a political ideology, not slaughtering people for being different. It's like how people confuse communism with tyrany and gemocide.

You're missing his point. Of course that isn't the definition of anarchy. The idea of anarchy is great. The thing is, the stuff he just described is what actually comes of anarchy in real life. You can talk all you want about not being lorded over, but the simple fact is that without someone to keep them in check, people murder each other.

A lot. And nothing will change that basic fact of human existence.

 

[Ph33nix]

anarchists they know how to hold a party

 

[Dr Snakeman]

Why abolish order?
Since most of the time today it's order and law which protects the weak.
Would you like to revert back?
I didn't think so.

Anarchy is for people who don't quite understand politics.

can we please stop making assumptions like this? It would be real easy for me to say that supporting the government is for people afraid of living in the real world.
Anarchy is for me, and I do understand politics. Maybe your the one that doesn't. We do not pick our leaders, corporations do. We get to vote and when those votes do count, it's pointless because everyone you are allowed to vote for is always a liar. We have come to learn this by now, they are all liars.

Our system does not protect the weak. If you really believe that, get your head out of the TV and go out in the real world.
More goes on in the world than what you see on tv. People pulled over for no reason and being randomly searched for anything suspicious (such as books that seem slightly unpatriotic but not quite violent) and god help you if you so much as ask for a reason or tell them they need a warrant to search your vehicle.


Every day the walls are closing in around us, with every pointless law passed another freedom taken away and people like you want to mock anybody that thinks there's a problem.
I'm willing to respect your opinion, I was anyways but clearly people like you are unwilling to respect anyone elses so why should I even bother?

Oh! I can't stand democracy.
I know that I'm quite of a hippocrit for wanting freedom of speech and equal rights for all when I want to abolish your right to vote for people to rule the country.
I'm quite like Plato.
But the thing is that if you've noticed then people most of the time pick their leaders of values such as "I would drink a beer with this guy" and "he looks like a nice fella'".
But why not choose the people that have the knowledge to lead a country and are natural born leaders who have good hearts?
But on the other side you have freedom and all that, so how can we fix this?
How can we get the people that know what they're doing into control and aren't corrupted?

And of course you play that card.
Who said anything about free speech? What free speech are you talking about? A guy gets tazed on camera for asking a government official the "Wrong" question.
Democracy? It's a joke. We can't vote for anybody we want, only the ones certain people decided would be a good president. How is that democracy? It's just a dictatorship with many leaders.
We have elected leaders that have real knowledge, they screwed us. The only guy that wasn't screwing us and actually helping us was JFK, and look what happened to him.

We don't have freedom. Don't even tell me that joke, I've heard it before.

wow, I hope your being sarcastic because if you really believe that flag waving stuff you just posted...i pity you.
Yes we are so free, and we get to stay free as long as we do whatever our masters tell us.

Bwhahahaha.

I just said that we had no freedom and that in my case (Iceland)and that none of the political groups are smart enough to run a bloody country.
What I'm saying is that I would love to see a country just being lead by people that aren't of any of the usual political groups and are more of a "board" then a couple of groups with opposed opinions.
We would have a highly educated man in economics,social studies and so on.
But I despise people who look down on others.
For it is I! DRACULA!

Oh, my apologizes I think I misread your post or something.
In fact, I really don't think I really understood anything you said after that first post, but my point still stands.
You don't know every anarchist or anarchy supporter in the world so don't make ignorant assumptions like "they don't know politics" just because you don't understand that way of thinking.

I'm talking about a part of anarchists.
The people which were punks in the old days and are just there to cause a riot.
But we all know what Anarchism is.
It's when they want to abolish law and abolish the goverment, then it contradicts it self by saying that they want to run the country in some other way.
But I would love to hear how you would run a country like America in a state of anarchy.

More assumptions, how original.
I don't want to run america. This may suprise you, but your not as all knowing as you seem to think. You don't understand people as well as you think.
The punks your talking about don't even know what anarchy is, they just want to break shit. I know who your talking about, the black flag waving, cop car burning, small business destroying spoiled brats.
Sure, assume I'm just like them. I suppose using your logic I can assume you support the government (because it's so easy to figure people out that you never bothered to have a conversation with) and from that, I can say that anybody that supports the government just hates Jews. Oh but not all of them, I was just referring to that small group called the Nazis that wanted to kill the Jews for their country.

So why do you hate the jews?
I'm sure you didn't get it so I'll help, I'm using the same logic you used and applying it to you and your beliefs. Isn't that fun? I see why you would do it. Way easier than asking questions or getting to know a person, just assume you know them based on things you see online.

Godwin's law.
Something tells me that you're a troll.

But for a last statement.
I like the concept behind Anarchy but I wouldn't want it. Because I quite like having police and a functioning government.
You've proposed no arguement towards your point, only illogical attacks on the other people who are talking about anarchy and I think most of the escapist quite disagree with your opinions and anarchy in general.

Good day.

What is wrong with you? I'm the troll? I just explained to you that the comment was to prove a point.
You made an ignorant assumption about me so I did the same thing. I'm a troll for doing that? Than I suppose you are too, right?
I didn't come here to attack but your post was an obvious attack.
Go read what you posted if you don't believe me.

You said anybody that want anarchy don't understand politics. If you can ignorantly insult anybody that disagrees with you like that, how am I worse for defending my beliefs?

People like you remind me of why I want it. People like you are flooding this planet. Your not even human, your byproduct. All you do is ***** and complain and talk out of your ass.

The only thing that keeps me happy is the thought that one day every single parasite on this planet will die.

I'm sick of trying to discuss this shit with people that only want to attack. None of us will ever do anything remotely important or even helpful for this world. All I was trying to explain is that a world without borders, nations, and laws wouldn't be complete chaos. It could actually be a good thing for some people. but it's pointless because it will never happen. Revolution is dead. I'm glad your happy on this pathetic planet, at least some of you slaves are domesticated little guys. I'd rather die than live in this sick fucking world for another year.

Sick of being treated like a kid even after I got a fucking job and worked my ass off to give handouts to every asshole that asked because I'm such a fucking pushover.

I promise you guys something though, all of you. Every living person in this pathetic generation we are all a part of. Soon, when I finally end it, and I will regardless of what you smart ass pricks may be thinking, if you know it all nihilists are wrong and there really is life after death, a way to exist as energy in the universe, I swear I will give this world everything I have. I'll whisper sick things in your ears for the rest of your lives, fill your head with horrible thoughts that will never leave your mind, and cause as much suffering for this world that I can after death.

Now that's something to look forward too, fuck this childish political BS.


Sorry I even got involved, it was a pointless topic to begin with and only reminded me of why I quit dealing with other humans in the first place.

You can call me crazy and stupid if you want people, just remember that all things are connected and one day every person this fucked up species turned insane will be back in some form. Everything that is sent is also returned.

Maybe your kids (if you even have any) will end up as crazy as me, if so you know who to thank


-Demowargis-

So I'm not human?
So I'm not a homo sapiens?
You're not even making any sense.
Suddenly you've started mixing the afterlife into this discussion.
But really, ending your life is never a great decision because you don't even know what will happen to you in the future.
You might even meet the woman or if you roll on that side man that you will love.
You probably haven't lived life, because no one should end their lives, (because you sound like you want to take your life).
So even if we don't agree with each other then don't be so upset, we can always discuss this in a normal manner.

Btw.Facism in theory is good as well, might even work out if any country would try it out.

I've moved beyond this discussion. This whole thing was just another wake up call.
Don't give me that shit, I heard it all before.
" oh don't kill yourself, give it a few years and you'll find somebody that you connect with"
There is no human being on this planet that I can connect with.
I'm like an alien, I have no connection with any of you people and whenever I try to socialize all I can do is attack people.
You think I'm a troll? You think I enjoy this? I fucking hate this. I actually wanted to be a normal poster but when I see a thing or hear a thing or see a thing I can't help myself from doing certain things and it drives me fucking insane.

Well, have you checked with a psychiatrist? Because well if everything makes you angry then you should check up with a psychologist, just check they could help.
But really, just calm down and let down your defenses.
Just smile and have a nice day.

no money or need for a psycho doctor. Psychology is just another BS religion.
Faith based beliefs and assumptions.
And you still don't get it. This is my putting my defenses down. This is what I am, angry at everything but unable to do anything.
I'm done with it. Anybody that chooses to live in this world would have to be nuts.

?
Psychology isn't a religion.
And you're putting down your defenses in the wrong places.
Sorry my friend you need some help, go get some.
Btw. Before you dig your self a deeper hole then just apologize to everyone and try to see the logical fallacies which you've said here.
Because you're being kinda of a dick by saying that everyone who aren't on your side are washed up hacks.
Read your posts a bit more, you will see that you're the only one who knows better and that everyone else that don't believe the same things as you are somehow beneath you.
If you don't see that then *shrug* what ever.

Can you get this through your head? I know how I think, don't tell me that you know more about me than me. you don't know a fucking thing.


I never said anything about people that disagree with me. I'm talking about all of you. You, me, everybody else. It's one big annoying useless pile of flesh that needs to be burn off of this once great planet.
believe whatever you want. People like me just need to let our our emotions and take some pills and we get all better. Your government will never betray your or slaughter a large number of us for some insane reason.
We will never be locked up for no reason.
Life is super super important and should be cherished.

Sorry but I can't buy that shit anymore. I'm done with the charade and I'm done discussing this with somebody that still has not fucking clue what I'm trying to explain.

Once again, I never said I was better than anybody. Of course you have to convince yourselves that I do think this because it makes you feel better about your reality.
If I'm a narcissist (As you try to make me out to be) then you can go to sleep soundly knowing that everything I said was silly make believe.
Then when it really happens you'll block it out, pretend it's just a temporary thing like they told you it would be.
Then it never ends, and your all in a prison. The only thing I have over all of you is that I'll be dead by the time it happens.
Nice talking to yas.


-Demowargis-

Alas, There rows the boat of sanity out of it's port.

Good night and farewell my silly friend, learn to smile for a while.

Holy mother of... what happened here? Is... is this guy for real? I really hope not, because if he is, he sounds kind of suicidal. Which is problematic, to say the least.

Of course, if he isn't, he's a troll who should be crushed by the Banhammer without mercy.

 

[ToxinArrow]

You want anarchy? Go to Africa, where your wife gets gang-raped while they hack your head off and conscript your children, because your grandmother's tribe has a different name.


Anarchy is a horrible joke that teenagers cling to because "the man like, puts them down, and stuff."

Again, that's not the definition of anarchy. It's meant to be a political ideology, not slaughtering people for being different. It's like how people confuse communism with tyrany and gemocide.

It's not confusing it for something else if that's what actually happens :/

 

[Lalalarzi]

I don't know wether I'd call myself an anarchist, but I do like the idea of a society that functions so well it doesn't need a government and the people themselves are self aware and responsible enough to make better decisions then a government ever could. Of course, this will never EVER happen and the only anarchism this imperfect world experiences is an absences of government, usually because it's been overthrown, resulting in chaos.

Remember, democracy is the worst form of government.....apart from all the others.

 

[mrdude2010]

how the hell can anyone be an anarchist? somalia has no organization and look how well that works out


in fact, is it even possible to be an "anarchist?" labeling yourself as part of a group defies the entire purpose of anarchy

 

[rabidmidget]

I personally see it as quite a dumb belief. Humans need a "leviathan" who keeps them in order.

Someone's been reading their Hobbes.

OT: Anarchy is a pipe dream, it could only work in an idealised society and even then, there would still be glaring flaws, although I still find it a preferable alternative to facism and other totolitarian political philosophies.

 

[TheNarrator]

What did people do during that in-between period? They decided that this would be a good time to loot warehouses and publically humiliate or murder anyone who was remotely suspected of collaboration, without even a chance of fair trial. Sure, not everyone acted like that, but the point is that without a system to prevent and/or punish crime, only a few people actually can fuck it up for the rest of the community. There are always people who will do whatever they can get away with, and anarchy allows them to get away with anything.

As caveman stupid as it sounds. It's the communities fault for not killing the crazy fools off. That's the reason I like the IDEA of Anarchy. You get to handle your problems directly. Only problem is if you get handled as well.

That, to me, is the best part of anarchy. I geuss some would call it vigilantism (did I spell that right?). People work out their problems on their own and no one else gets involved. But like most of the people here have said anarchy has about as much chance of working as communism

I would argue that that is simply a dangerous idea. Without fair trial, there would be a lot of people who get punished for something they did not do, or whose punishment is completely out of proportion with their crime. I'll admit that the idea of being allowed to beat everyone up who looks funny at you may be somewhat tempting to many, but you can't expect to organise a sizable community in that way.

Also, criminal organisations will be able to grow way too strong to be controlled by vigilantes, you need an organised police force to be able to stop them from taking over.

 

[Jazzyjazz2323]

CHAOS,CHAOS,CHAOS.
ya anarchy is entirely impossible in modern society and anyone who tells me they are an anarchist I laugh at.

 

[mechanixis]

I think it's something only ignorant little punk kids would feel is a good thing, because they feel like rebelling against "the world" and haven't thought it through. Which is why they typically grow out of it as soon as their hormones start settling down.

Pretty much precisely. Anarchy is just rebelling for the sake of rebelling.

No. No it is not. Read back over the thread and you'll find most people telling you, correctly, otherwise.

And read over some Thomas Hobbes and you'll find why they're all wrong. At the end of the day, in an anarchist society, the strong have nothing to lose from preying on the weak. Morality is something that comes with civilization and the social contract.

 

[mechanixis]

What did people do during that in-between period? They decided that this would be a good time to loot warehouses and publically humiliate or murder anyone who was remotely suspected of collaboration, without even a chance of fair trial. Sure, not everyone acted like that, but the point is that without a system to prevent and/or punish crime, only a few people actually can fuck it up for the rest of the community. There are always people who will do whatever they can get away with, and anarchy allows them to get away with anything.

As caveman stupid as it sounds. It's the communities fault for not killing the crazy fools off. That's the reason I like the IDEA of Anarchy. You get to handle your problems directly. Only problem is if you get handled as well.

That, to me, is the best part of anarchy. I geuss some would call it vigilantism (did I spell that right?). People work out their problems on their own and no one else gets involved. But like most of the people here have said anarchy has about as much chance of working as communism

But that's based on two faulty assumptions. 1) The individuals being abused are strong enough to overpower the individuals abusing them, and 2) people would have a desire to take risks defending other people.

It's all well and good to say, "If a psycho is attacking my friend, I help my friend!" but it gets more complicated if there are five psychos and only two of you. Justice is not served. That's when things like police forces become more desirable. And even when you gather up enough people to work toward a shared goal, that's still people banding together. Once you have sufficient people banding together to overcome threats and obstacles regularly (and they will need to regularly), they start organize themselves. And once they organize, then you have the foundations of a government. Which is why governments exist: they make society run more securely and efficiently.

Ultimately, anarchy is a political theory for the audacity of youth - it's basically a way of saying, "I don't need anyone's help to do anything!"

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Oh, but psychology is slightly bullshit, with my friend's mum's job consisting of asking junkies "How does that make you feel?"

I just feel like pointing out that sitting there saying 'How does that make you feel?' is entirely a technique used by therapists... who are not psychologists and would get laughed out of a psychology lecture.

Depending on what type of Psychologist you visit depends on how BS it seems... but all good psychologists are useful assuming they're good at their jobs.

 

[Megacherv]

You want anarchy? Go to Africa, where your wife gets gang-raped while they hack your head off and conscript your children, because your grandmother's tribe has a different name.


Anarchy is a horrible joke that teenagers cling to because "the man like, puts them down, and stuff."

Again, that's not the definition of anarchy. It's meant to be a political ideology, not slaughtering people for being different. It's like how people confuse communism with tyrany and gemocide.

It's not confusing it for something else if that's what actually happens :/

That is what happened, but not necesserily what was meant to happen.

 

[Danny Ocean]

In anarchism, there are no countries.

There are nations and countries, but no states.

I don't think so. Who would define where the borders are?

Whomever happened to be there at the time. A country is simply the land a nation occupies, so borders are not really necessary. They just make it easier for dense population centres to be supported from the surrounding land, rather than just the land they occupy.

Basically, country=site of nation; borders=situation of nation.