Androgynous Males in REAL LIFE

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Silver

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I find that I can relate to many of the issues described in the post, what with being transsexual, and sadly exhibiting many of the physical qualities of the wrong gender.

All I can say is to hang in there. High school is a pretty rough place. It'll get better when you find people you can relate to, people who understand. Just don't deny yourself, don't let it get you down too much. It get's better. It get's easier. There are people out there like you, and there are people out there who understand, and will sympathise, and some who'll even like you better because of these qualities.
 

tuhamburglar79

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Jul 2, 2008
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I dont usually stay to debate but i have to add my two cents. Video games are an escape from reality... Simply put you will statistically never encounter anything that happens in games in your life. So to expect reality from most media which is trying to be imaginative and "new" is naive. Although i do sympathize with the situation i will say this. You have two options either "man up" and conform and more than likely be miserable or be yourself and say "screw what people think." Oh and yes im a dude and i write poetry and im "nice" and im emotional, but i can still kick the sh*t out of you. Basically find your balance your inner self and live that way.
 

DeleteMe1112311

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Sep 18, 2008
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Well, I'm entirely baffled as to how I should respond to this...but I'll wing it.

*Ahem* I do not care. It does not matter to me whether or not you are a man, a woman, black, white, tan, anything. Don't expect any poor or special treatment from me. Just as an example: Do something assholish, I will call you an asshole not because you are different but because you did something to deserve it. Do something nice or particularly worthy of praise, and I will compliment it. not because you are different, because you were a good person.

I Can't really think of much else to say...I wasn't entirely sure how to respond to this in the first place but I think this gets the message across.

To anyone who would scream "racist" or "sexist" or some like term at anyone who insults someone who is different from them: There is a DIFFERENCE between racism and honesty. If you are black and I am white and I call you an asshole, it is because you are an asshole. Not because of the color of your skin, your personal preferences, or your gender.

I can understand your point that modern games do target either extreme and that frequently this reflects badly upon certain groups in real life as well, but I really am unsure of how to address it...maybe it is because I do not understand, I don't face the same hardships that you do and maybe I never will but what I can say is that people will be assholes about it. You have expect that but know that those people are not the kinds of people who's opinions should matter to you. People who judge based on appearance are the lowest kind of scumbags and aren't worth getting upset about. There are people who will accept you for who you are regardless of what you look like and those are the people who you need to listen to and surround yourself with. I'm somewhat of an outsider in my high school as well having just moved and while I do understand that your situation is much worse than mine, I think I can say honestly that you can expect it to get better.

Ugh...it is late and I am tired...I really hope this post actually made sense....I guess I'll find out in the morning.
 

CanadianWolverine

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Feb 1, 2008
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Just ignore Ultrajoe, he is probably just pissed at reading another Khell rant and then came across your particular minority issue. Though he did bring up a good point about attacking your audience can be a self fulfilling prophesy of being the victim. But to be honest I found myself relating to the same sense of not belonging, it is painful and thus hard to not immediately go to your fall back position of assuming others are against you. Consider this about your psyche though, you actually found yourself comfortable enough to rant on a public forum. Think about that for a second - either you are looking for negative attention or you don't actually think the Escapist forum goers will be against you.

That said though, I totally understand the loathing for the use of "gay" and "fag" as a derogative term in gaming between gamers. They have nothing to go on perhaps your use of language in chat, a tone of voice, or your play style - and sometimes nothing at all, just taking a shot in the dark. Between guys the use of that language, even if they actually both happen to be that sexual persuasion, are fighting words. Might as well throw in something nasty about their mom and/or female companion at that point to drive the point home of 'supposed' superiority. Is it any wonder such words are often used in a public setting? They aren't trying to put you down for your sake, they are trying to establish dominance and have others know their position.

Now, I am going to assume you are referring to being androgynous, rather than having the genitalia of a man and a woman. I am inferring from your rant that you are a male with qualities that are similar to that of a woman's archetype. I can so relate to this, so know that you are not alone in this condition and the social stigma it carries.

I am lean muscled. I have long, thick eyelashes. My daughter inherited those physical qualities, my wife says she is really happy that happened. I can stretch really easily ... that helps as a goalie. If it was just physical though, maybe I wouldn't be so easily sought out as a target growing up, but I also liked to dance, write, draw, read thick books, feel romantic... I might as well have painted a target on my back.

I still remember those fuckers who ruined my prom night. I was dancing on out there on the floor, with all these beautiful girls because the guys were a bunch of pussies to get out there too. The techno music was bumping and I was having a good time just exerting myself in dancing in time to my favorite type of music, not a care in the world. That should have been my first clue, I should have known that hick Canadian village would have been filled with the kinda small town people who naturally tend to view anything that is not the norm as something that just has to be fucked with. So, there I was just practicing my own brand of euphoria, my own personal rave, when that asshole comes up to me and starts grinding up against me with a smirk on his face. Whatever, I dance away into the crowd. Only to bump into his friends, also wearing smirks and blocking my exit. "Hey, want to dance, fag." His shit eating grin and their laughs said it all, it was all I could do to not fucking fly into a murderous rage right then. Damn it! Fuck them all, I'm out of here before I do something I regret, my 'kind' are obviously not welcome here. And what did I do to them that deserved this? Having a good time because being anything but miserable was abhorrent to their idea of what different kind of guy's position in their world is.

Of course, that was not the only incident growing up, but for the sake of trying to be less long winded than I normally find myself typing up, I'll save you the life story. Suffice it to say though, I get off easier now to a degree by letting my facial hair grow out. And I try to keep that heart that used to be on my sleeve tucked away when I go out. I feel far more comfortable with who I am while playing and discussing games but those archetypes of "manly man" and the use of "gay" in online gaming culture still rankle from time to time ... until I make a decision just to close the game or browser window. A lot harder to do that in social situations in real life, when you need to stick around and find a way to deal with the bullshit - I try to blend into the background as best I can then and keep quiet. Hopefully, in that respect, you will fare better socially than I have, Shade Jackrabbit.
 

Spleeni

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Shade Jackrabbit said:
I feel for you dude, I really do. I'm sure that most people feel for you. It's not most people that you should be complaining about though. It's the people who made those images; it's the people who openly attacked you for being different. Most people understand, or don't care. There's only a small portion of haters, and I think you'll find that being androgynous isn't exactly like being Black/African American. There's less protection, socially and lawfully, for being discriminated against. The smaller the minority, the worse off they tend to be. Hell, I know what it's like to be treated like a retard. (I have ADD, so I was stuck in a 'special' program)
 

Miss Kass

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Dec 2, 2008
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Shade Jackrabbit said:
Bright_Raven said:
...and if you are nervous about meeting girls and being embarresed by your light frame?
Anime conventions. they love Androgynous guys.
I wish people would stop giving me reasons to go to anime conventions. It's getting hard to keep believing it's a bad idea. XD
Please, go to an anime convention. I have met tons of amazing people there, many of whom would be taunted mercilessly outside of a convention setting, eg. overweight girls and androgynous boys. It's amzaing to see a whole bunch of 'social rejects' being far more social than any of the people who put them down because of their differences.

Bolverk said:
Damn. Australia is too far from everything! I'm surrounded day in and day out by jocky guys. I'm so sick of all these buffed up bronze swimsuit models in budgie smugglers! (aka speedos).
>__>

<__<

Seconded. I want a boy who doesn't look like he lives in a gym, or managed to turn his brain cells into muscle cells by pure grunting.

More on topic, I'm honestly sorry that you're treated this way, Shade. Getting through and out of high school is important, because after that you can socialise with whomever you like, most of whom will be studying things you're mutually interested in (if you go to university/college/whatever it is in Canada), or you'll be in another situation you actually want to be in, as compared with school. Wahey, that was a poor sentence. xD

Or, hell, move to Melbourne (Australia). I'd be friends with you in an instant, and there are plenty of people here who don't give a damn about what you look like, they'd just be your mate. As much as I hate using that word, because think it stereotypes Australians, people here would befriend you. I've yet to actually encounter someone who isn't a total dickhead who'll discriminate over what people look like. <3
 

ward.

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Aug 6, 2008
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Shade Jackrabbit said:
ORIGINAL POST, CUT DOWN FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S SCROLLING CONVINIENCE. YOU SHOULD PROBABLY HAVE ALREADY READ IT BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO CONTRIBUTE.[/i]
How androgynous are you actually?
 

Dramatic Flare

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Jun 18, 2008
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You learn, you adapt, and overcome. Like I did through high school. I started by taking everything anyone ever said about me and immediately ignoring it.
Then I found people who weren't vapid and so absorbed by the stupidity society who could have a conversation about things in an intelligent manner.
I suggest you try a drama class.
 

Bagaloo

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Sep 17, 2008
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I can see where you are coming from; there aren't any 'real' representations of men and women in the media nowadays, but I have to nitpick about 'real' people in games.

Fact is, whilst I'm not Androgynous, I am far from your stereotypical guy. I too am not fond of sports, and unlike most guys I know I don't go out every night to get drunk and attempt some lighthearted womanising.

I'm also not that physically strong, and whilst I'm not going to go completely overboard and say that I'm unatractive (I do have some self-respect left), there are definitly flaws in my appearance that I would want to change.

Fact is, if there were an accurate representation of me in a videogame, it would suck. It would suck because I'm fairly sure that if I were one of the fantastical settings games often go into, I most likely wouldn't survive.

I've never handled firearms before in my life, I'm not a master of bladed weapons, I can't run along walls and commit frankly astounding feats of physical strength. This game would be boring, because the protagonist would not be able to act in any 'cool' ways.

Anyway, thats why I'm not convinced true realism in games is something that would neccessarily work.

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles at school, take solace in the fact that (usually) as you, and more importantly your peers, get older, you all mature (both mentally and physically) and see how stupid it is to pick on a minority in such a way.
 

Dread_Reaper

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Dec 4, 2008
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Shade Jackrabbit said:
Foremost, all you clods asking the OP about his junk should cut that juvenile bullshit out. This isn't a freak show you louts, so bugger off and find something else to ogle.

That being said, onto business.

There was part of me that wanted to open with some advice about "just being yourself" and "ignoring what everyone else says", but then I realized that such sentiments would likely reside firmly within the previously-mentioned and oft-reviled "just be a man" category, so that idea got torpedoed.

Then I thought I would mention some advice on the general phrasing of your proposal, including more androgynous video game characters. Well frankly I'm not sure what you expect us to do about it, since many of us are completely unaffected by the issue and honestly don't care about minorities unless we're a part of one. Hell, half the people in this thread didn't even know such a physique as yours existed. This is not to say you shouldn't just accept reality and start playing JRPGs. No one should have to play those cripplingly boring ordeals. I'm just saying that some personal suggestions, as opposed to a general appeal for support from an apathetic internet forum, would have yielded better results.

Another topic that came to mind concerns the social dynamics of high school. Okay, so you've probably heard this countless times from those who have passed beyond those cruel walls, but high school is not indicative of the treatment you will receive for the rest of your life. That sort of social structure does exist outside of it, but in much smaller doses usually reserved for those who are REALLY bizarre, like pedophiles or lepers. My point is don't worry. There are times when we all feel out of place in the world, some more than others, but in the case of high school, it will pass. There is a whole wide world of out there people who will understand and appreciate who you are. It just requires that you shed the fetters of high school first. This is not a "man up" sort of statement, but rather an appeal for you to have some hope.

Remember, people can be cruel, but it is often not because they are entirely cruel of heart. Rather, it is human nature to fear what we do not understand, and aggression and belittlement are generally the instinctive reactions to an unfamiliar entity, in this case you. They don't know which primary category you belong in, and to assuage this confusion they assault you, trying to turn you into something beneath their notice. I am sure you have done this at least once in your life as well. Its an unconscious defense mechanism. My point is try not to judge them too harshly, as they do you.

In truth there is much I could say on this issue with concerns to video games as well, like how it might appear slightly incongruous for an effeminate androgyny to single-handedly mow down a horde of shambling monstrosities using nothing but a journal of poetry and his empathy for the mistreated, but its either been stated, restated, done to death, resurrected, then done to death again by everyone else on this forum, or actually stating it would transform this already circumspect post into a cumbersome wall of rambling text that no person could ever hope to trudge through.

Which it already has become.

-Dread_Reaper
 

Ultrajoe

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Apr 24, 2008
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CanadianWolverine said:
Just ignore Ultrajoe, he is probably just pissed at reading another Khell rant and then came across your particular minority issue.
I had to catch a bus home from work in the pouring rain. I was pissed and damp. I am dry and much more amiable now.


ninjablu said:
I suggest you try a drama class.
This i heavily endorse (I'm back, by the way, fishing trip cancelled due to more rain in the sky than the ocean), as i know for a fact what Drama can do to help someone out of a slump. Drama, way back when, got me through high school. Drama took a short, young (younger than all my classmates, i think) and reclusive sack of sorry mope and turned him into the towering, showstopping dynamo of personality you see before you today! Really, it made me who i am... it may be blamed rather than thanked in that regard. I think i got full marks on most of my performances come final year, but that could be ego inflating the memories.

Do Drama, you'll rock. Any guy with the ability to throw pride and embarrassment down the drain makes Drama his *****. I know it has made me 100% embarrassment-proof, and likely will you, too. It does wonders for your confidence, also, there's nothing like the euphoria of nailing a monologue or part and reveling in an ovation.

Also, all the good looking girls do Drama, at least they did, anyway.
 

Alphavillain

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Jan 19, 2008
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Erana said:
But... I'm the one who keeps saying, "Chicks dig sensetive guys."
I know that's yet another blanket term, but I don't tell guys to, "Be a man."
Chicks may dig sensitive guys, but that doesn't mean they LET sensitive guys dig them. Being a sesitive guy, I know. I don't dig too much.
 

falcontwin

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Aug 10, 2008
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Chicks like to "Talk" to sensitive guys. Chicks like to do the stuff you want to do to them (no matter how filthy and degrading) with guys who don't spend all their time talking about how sensitive they are.
 

Silver

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Alphavillain said:
Erana said:
But... I'm the one who keeps saying, "Chicks dig sensetive guys."
I know that's yet another blanket term, but I don't tell guys to, "Be a man."
Chicks may dig sensitive guys, but that doesn't mean they LET sensitive guys dig them. Being a sesitive guy, I know. I don't dig too much.
Because all that factors into something like that is if you're a sensitive guy, or a manly man. Yup.


Seriously. It doesn't matter if you're really cool and ubermanly or if you're really sweet and sensitive. There's always more to a person than that, and that alone won't get you hated, or loved by the opposite gender. "Chicks" don't like to talk to "sensitive guys" and bang "manly guys" who degrade them. A chick might like to talk to some sensitive guys, depending on both the chick and the sensitive guys in question, that same chick might like some manly men despite them being degrading and filthy. She might also like to talk to some manly men, and she might like to bang some sensitive guys, it all depends on the individual chick, manly men and sensitive guys in question.
 

P1p3s

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Jan 16, 2009
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Chiasm" post="18.84986.1224690 said:
1.You gotta be tougher at least for your sake, I mean it's nothing to new of a idea but not like "be a man" but be able to have thick skin. Being Mute and dealing with both Deaf people and Hearies I have to say you just have to understand everyone is a bigot in their own ways and just learn to move on with your life,If not you'll become depressed I suggest taking up smoking if you need to just get away or meet people who are more open minded.

quote]

I was totally on board with you until you suggested a kid (who clearly has enough to deal with) opt for reaching out to cancer as a comforter!
>_<

On a more serious note, as I woman the only thing I can connect with in your story is the media and the rest of the world around you telling you that you aren't physically adequate. I realise that horse has been flogged to death but what I will say is that as long as you are physcially and emotionally healthy who gives a crap what a bunch of nameless faceless cash junkies think we should look like. They are the easier bunch to tell to get lost, the people you walk around in school with aren't so easy to ignore or fend off. There is no magical potion for that, but thick skin sure helps I suggest you level up on your armour ASAP.

Just curious - are there any people in your life who know you for who you really are? Friends you are open with about your androgeny?
 

Dramatic Flare

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Jun 18, 2008
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Ultrajoe said:
CanadianWolverine said:
Just ignore Ultrajoe, he is probably just pissed at reading another Khell rant and then came across your particular minority issue.
I had to catch a bus home from work in the pouring rain. I was pissed and damp. I am dry and much more amiable now.


ninjablu said:
I suggest you try a drama class.
This i heavily endorse (I'm back, by the way, fishing trip cancelled due to more rain in the sky than the ocean), as i know for a fact what Drama can do to help someone out of a slump. Drama, way back when, got me through high school. Drama took a short, young (younger than all my classmates, i think) and reclusive sack of sorry mope and turned him into the towering, showstopping dynamo of personality you see before you today! Really, it made me who i am... it may be blamed rather than thanked in that regard. I think i got full marks on most of my performances come final year, but that could be ego inflating the memories.

Do Drama, you'll rock. Any guy with the ability to throw pride and embarrassment down the drain makes Drama his *****. I know it has made me 100% embarrassment-proof, and likely will you, too. It does wonders for your confidence, also, there's nothing like the euphoria of nailing a monologue or part and reveling in an ovation.

Also, all the good looking girls do Drama, at least they did, anyway.
Dude, dude, dude.
For my drama semester half, I had to do a duo with my friend Courtney. We did a sequence of Midsummer Night's dream, but Courtney kept being unemotional and even the teacher couldn't figure out how to help her express herself better.
At one point I said "Look, right now, I could do a better one woman than you can." She gave me the eyebrow raise.
Now, you have to understand that for three weeks we had been working on lines and trying to find a way that Courtney could become more outgoing and present herself in a vibrant fashion. She loved drama, but she was a very subdued person. (Turns out there was more to it than that, but details are to remain nondisclosed over the internet.) I took every route from actually trying to piss her off by being offensive to making her laugh continuously. None of it worked. So do you know what happened?
A week later, I played the girl in our presentation.
I'm told it was hilarious.
 

Azhrarn-101

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Jul 15, 2008
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I know the feelings you describe Shade (although I'm not androgenous), and probably the best thing I can suggest is what many others have already said. Find those who accept you for who you are and build confidence of their friendship. The drama suggestion is also a pretty good one. (didn't do that myself, did arts instead)
Being friends with girls also helps, generally guys who are more feminine get along great with the ladies.
(I know I do, although very few of these friendships grow into something more)

Perhaps I should have done drama too, since I did have a pretty nasty mental breakdown a year or 2 ago. A year of psychotherapy later and I look at things quite differently.
Much happier with what I am than I was before.

The first step is probably accepting who you are and being happy with yourself.
The most important thing that year of therapy taught me, and what kept me from just ending it. :)
 

Ultrajoe

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Apr 24, 2008
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ninjablu said:
Dude, dude, dude.
For my drama semester half, I had to do a duo with my friend Courtney. We did a sequence of Midsummer Night's dream, but Courtney kept being unemotional and even the teacher couldn't figure out how to help her express herself better.
At one point I said "Look, right now, I could do a better one woman than you can." She gave me the eyebrow raise.
Now, you have to understand that for three weeks we had been working on lines and trying to find a way that Courtney could become more outgoing and present herself in a vibrant fashion. She loved drama, but she was a very subdued person. (Turns out there was more to it than that, but details are to remain nondisclosed over the internet.) I took every route from actually trying to piss her off by being offensive to making her laugh continuously. None of it worked. So do you know what happened?
A week later, I played the girl in our presentation.
I'm told it was hilarious.
All the worlds a stage, and all the men and women merely interludes for the Actors. Wearing a dress? More manly and courageous than any bike ride or football match.

My best moment was getting both tears of laughter and tears of emotion out of an audience in one 9 minute piece. I should get back into acting or any performance art, like getting torn to bits at the local stand-up place. That feeling is like riding liquid lightning. Man, just talking about it makes me feel good.

So yeah. Do Drama. It's a skill, not a subject. Any bastard can do Physics with enough study. It takes raw balls to stare down the Scottish Play, or play a gay man at the local Mcdonalds with a friend (Ok, a bit spur of the moment, but it was hilarious. They're on to me now. For the record, nothing physical. There's courage and then there's Phyrric Victory).

So, that's my advice for you to do instead of spitting at the internet. Do Drama.

Ultra's Orders (Like doctors orders, but with an implied threat)