Angry Joe's interview with Major Nelson

[thethird0611]

You know whats sad? I actually had a lot of "OMG That is fucking awesome" moments... but there are some big things that are just.. UH UH. With them trying to make it cloud based, more social, and a full system of entertainment, I wanted to buy it... but CMON Microsoft, you cant give us some good stuff, than throw in some BAD BAD BAD stuff and say, "Well hey, it comes with it."

 

[The_Tron]

It's amazing watching the guy try to avoid questions or talk about: "we're going to the future, why wouldn't you want to come with us?" whenever you mention the flaws of the system.

When he said that I almost lost it. I felt that was a really conceited way of answering the question. Regardless you could tell Major Nelson was getting upset at some of the questions and rightfully so as I think he has a fair amount of pride in the Xbox one like a parent would in their child. And all the people saying awful things (no matter how true they are) about the Xbox one is starting to affect him personally. That said you do have to give him credit for answering to the best of his knowledge, but overall Microsoft is just shooting themselves in the foot with these restrictions. For every genuinely good innovation/feature there's two things dragging it down. I personally was on the fence for this generation but at the moment I am strongly leaning towards a playstion or a wiiU (I'm a sucker for monster hunter and nintendo's first party games). I like how Joe reacted afterwards though, laughing at how people are calling him a sony fanboy when he's never owned a sony console. As well as with his concerns over the PR woman who he was concerned that she would lose her job after that interview.

 

[barbzilla]

I didn't say you had to use my methods, but yes. After I finish my game, I generally send it to my brother. He usually does the same with his games. On top of that, I have a whole group of friends that I do that with locally. This means that I usually only have to purchase one out of every seven games I play (without resorting to piracy, just trading between friends). This would no longer be possible with the X1.

And if you can add that group of friends to you family list? And continue sharing game, without even having to ship the discs? How is that a bad thing?

p.s. That is assuming you can exploit the family list, of course. But as of now, I don't see how MS can stop you from doing it.

Because we have more than 10 people in my group of friends, on top of that we still have no idea what is required to place people into your family group. Outside of that I have no real idea of what limits and barriers MSFT will have in place by the time of launch. For the people who don't mind the DRM, and who can benefit from the family sharing, I say great (though even if I could benefit, I likely would still give it a pass based on the likelihood of further restrictions down the road if this console is successful). I really have no issues if someone else thinks the console is grand and wants to buy it, just because I personally wouldn't is no reason for someone else not to. For me though, the benefits do not outweigh the restrictions.

 

[Dryk]

I just dont get why Microsoft are so adamant that stripping people of their choices is such a good thing they could have added their so called plus features without gutting the other stuff then it would be a bonus instead of a hindrance. Cloud gaming may very well be the future but not for many years to come it wont.

It's the same with Windows 8. Microsoft can see the future and are too impatient to wait for it, so they've decided to just whip people until they get there.

 

[barbzilla]

Sorry, there are more Cons than Pros to this.

Don't buy their console then, problem solved!
That one Con works fine by me. And as someone who's used to Steam, even that one time lend, is a good option.

I Don't know where people are getting this notion. But you cannot "Loan" Your game to anyone. 10 People can play the game on your console. But if you want to give someone a game to play, you have to gift it to them. The game then becomes theirs, forever. You cannot get it back, and they cannot gift it to someone else. This is of course after thirty days.

Pretty much nothing, from what you wrote, is true. You just couldn't get it more wrong, even if you were trying to... Were you?

Except here is the thing. Steam is Digital. Owning a Physical copy is not. So when I am told that I can't do what I want with my physical copy, then there is a huge issue.

But of course, you don't care as you are an Xbot. So buy the console and help show that gamers are sheep that will do whatever they are told. Thanks!

You don't know how physical copies work with Steam do you?

I wasn't talking about Physical Copies with Steam. I am talking about Physical Console games.

My point is, a physical copy of a Steam game is worth even less than a physical copy of an Xbone game. You can't even resell a physical copy of a Steam game.

A major difference being that it took awhile for DRM like this to get a foothold on PC games, the consoles are just now being introduced to it, and it is already 10x worse than what PC gaming DRM was when it was first introduced. Just because this system is already in place on the PC do you think that makes it right to be put in place on consoles as well? I have been gaming for over 20 years now, and I watched the advent of digital rights management. I saw it start with simple manual checks (open your manual to page 20, 3rd paragraph, 4th word to the right, and enter it in), to CD Keys with infinite unlocks (no server checks), to limited install keys (you could only install it 3 times and you had to connect to a remote server to do so), all the way to one time use digital licenses that can only be used online (MMOs, Steam, Always Online DRM), each step took a new right or ability away from the consumer, and each step made it more likely to be unable to play your game one day.

Now they are moving this system to consoles, and they are jumping in feet first. They are going right to server activated limited use keys, with an always online mentality. Not to mention MSFT filed that patent a few years back for a camera like device that would view the number of people in a room for purposes of copyright management. This can go way out of control very quickly if we aren't careful as consumers. The more successful this system is, the more likely we are to see it escalate with the next generation (or even before). If this is the future you want to join MSFT in, that is fine, but it isn't a future I look forward to.

The sheer fact that many people (if the outspoken few can be believed) are flocking back to the PC, where DRM is terribly prevalent, should tell you that there is something wrong. This goes doubly when you consider who is at the head of this movement's army (so to speak). Whenever MSFT leads the pack on something, it generally isn't going to benefit the consumers nearly as much as the corporations, of that you can be assured.

 

[Orthus]

If he knew he was short on time, that's when you ask the important shit first! You can't "build up" to it, the absolute BIGGEST questions need to be addressed as soon as possible so if you do run out of time, you'll know that you at least got the big stuff out of the way : /

The thing is, if you ask the tough question first, you may end up with even shorter interview.
He doesn't have a fixed appointment, nor is he a representative of some big media. At any moment the person, he's interviewing, can say "OK, man, I gotta go. IGN's waiting and then I have a thing with GameSpot..."
You build up slowly and drop the bomb in the end. If the guy walks away, all the same, it was the last question anyway. Sounds like a good strategy to me

expect that most of the "big" guys are not asking the important and hardball questions.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Sorry, there are more Cons than Pros to this.

Don't buy their console then, problem solved!
That one Con works fine by me. And as someone who's used to Steam, even that one time lend, is a good option.

I Don't know where people are getting this notion. But you cannot "Loan" Your game to anyone. 10 People can play the game on your console. But if you want to give someone a game to play, you have to gift it to them. The game then becomes theirs, forever. You cannot get it back, and they cannot gift it to someone else. This is of course after thirty days.

Pretty much nothing, from what you wrote, is true. You just couldn't get it more wrong, even if you were trying to... Were you?

Except here is the thing. Steam is Digital. Owning a Physical copy is not. So when I am told that I can't do what I want with my physical copy, then there is a huge issue.

But of course, you don't care as you are an Xbot. So buy the console and help show that gamers are sheep that will do whatever they are told. Thanks!

You don't know how physical copies work with Steam do you?

I wasn't talking about Physical Copies with Steam. I am talking about Physical Console games.

My point is, a physical copy of a Steam game is worth even less than a physical copy of an Xbone game. You can't even resell a physical copy of a Steam game.

A major difference being that it took awhile for DRM like this to get a foothold on PC games, the consoles are just now being introduced to it, and it is already 10x worse than what PC gaming DRM was when it was first introduced. Just because this system is already in place on the PC do you think that makes it right to be put in place on consoles as well? I have been gaming for over 20 years now, and I watched the advent of digital rights management. I saw it start with simple manual checks (open your manual to page 20, 3rd paragraph, 4th word to the right, and enter it in), to CD Keys with infinite unlocks (no server checks), to limited install keys (you could only install it 3 times and you had to connect to a remote server to do so), all the way to one time use digital licenses that can only be used online (MMOs, Steam, Always Online DRM), each step took a new right or ability away from the consumer, and each step made it more likely to be unable to play your game one day.

Now they are moving this system to consoles, and they are jumping in feet first. They are going right to server activated limited use keys, with an always online mentality. Not to mention MSFT filed that patent a few years back for a camera like device that would view the number of people in a room for purposes of copyright management. This can go way out of control very quickly if we aren't careful as consumers. The more successful this system is, the more likely we are to see it escalate with the next generation (or even before). If this is the future you want to join MSFT in, that is fine, but it isn't a future I look forward to.

The sheer fact that many people (if the outspoken few can be believed) are flocking back to the PC, where DRM is terribly prevalent, should tell you that there is something wrong. This goes doubly when you consider who is at the head of this movement's army (so to speak). Whenever MSFT leads the pack on something, it generally isn't going to benefit the consumers nearly as much as the corporations, of that you can be assured.

I don't approve of what Microsoft is doing with Xbone but I can't help but to try and slap people with a little common sense when they run to Steam instead.

Sure, Steam has sales but when it comes to the DRM, Steam isn't that different. Where physical copies are concerned, Steam is worse. That's all I am saying.

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

This is almost too depressing to watch. Major Nelson obviously loves this console but he doesn't know how to defend it's limitations or explain its negatives with a straight answer and no positive spin. I think the cloud sharing could have sold consoles if it wasn't for the 24 hour check ins. If they just made so that authentication via a game disk was possible they wouldn't be in this shit.

If made adding games to cloud optional so a non-cloud game could be disk authenticated then people wouldn't be able to take advantage of their system and people would be able to play their games offline. There. I solved Microsoft's problem. Why aren't I making consoles?

 

[J Tyran]

That is a great feature but the problem is that its not in a vacuum and comes packaged with all the other problems...

And I won't argue with you. I just think there are some neat features there, that people are immediately ruling out, just because they're coming from "the seed of all evil" Microsoft.

I would love it if Steam had a feature like this, I have a huge Steam library but none of my family can take advantage of it. It caused a bit of ill feeling in the family with my Sister when she asked if my Nephew could use my Steam account, I had to tell her no because I didn't trust them to keep my valuable Steam account secure. I would have also had to remove my billing details and either deactivate two step verification or give him my e-mail login too, none of which was going to happen. He had a couple of F2P MMO accounts stolen in the past because he trusted people to "level up his char", her PC is often a mess and full of junkware and spyware that they always download as well. My Sister took it funny because she thought I didn't trust him to not steal the account and was making excuses, it's also a bit insulting to accuse your family of being useless and I felt bad about it.

If Steam could do what Microsoft plan to do with the Xbone it would be great, he could have his own account and login but play games from my library. My account wouldn't be exposed to extra risk and all my saves and billing details would be safe too.

 

[barbzilla]

I don't approve of what Microsoft is doing with Xbone but I can't help but to try and slap people with a little common sense when they run to Steam instead.

Sure, Steam has sales but when it comes to the DRM, Steam isn't that different. Where physical copies are concerned, Steam is worse. That's all I am saying.

I didn't say that Steam is a leader in the fight against DRM, in fact I agree that they are pretty DRM heavy. However, when you look at PC games, with the exception of a handful of major releases in the past 10 years, none of them have been DRM free, and many of them have had crippling DRM. Steam just found a way to make that DRM palatable. Is it better than no DRM, not by a long shot, is anyone likely to get a DRM free game on the PC (short of Witcher series or indies), I highly doubt it. So to protest what MSFT is doing, they are switching to a system that isn't likely to change with the new console generation. At least the ones who don't want to go to sony are, others are going to Sony or Nintendo. I say more power to them.

It all comes down to the vote with your wallet thing, which gamers in general are horrible at doing (for the most part).

 

[Silly Hats]

Seriously though, this console would absolutely chew up my internet allowance. I mean I need to rely on hard copies of PC games, I'm not sure how I feel about such a digital/cloud based system, considering that xbones would still have hard copies. The future is going to be expensive and looking like everyone will have to have a gooooood Internet plan.

Also, using a mobile phone to use the Xbone. Man, that phone bill would be insane.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

To be fair, he's given some straight answers in regards to playing games offline after the life of the console and some other things, but generally what he seems to not realise is that embracing the future isn't doing shit for the consumers. Ok, a nice share function, and a giving function. We have that to a lesser extent with physical games. But the rest of it, not being able to play offline after 24hrs, the restrictive used games system, all of that, is straight disadvantage, and no-one's in any better a position for having bought the console than they would be without this crap that's trying to sell itself as the new wave.

 

[WeepingAngels]

I don't approve of what Microsoft is doing with Xbone but I can't help but to try and slap people with a little common sense when they run to Steam instead.

Sure, Steam has sales but when it comes to the DRM, Steam isn't that different. Where physical copies are concerned, Steam is worse. That's all I am saying.

I didn't say that Steam is a leader in the fight against DRM, in fact I agree that they are pretty DRM heavy. However, when you look at PC games, with the exception of a handful of major releases in the past 10 years, none of them have been DRM free, and many of them have had crippling DRM. Steam just found a way to make that DRM palatable. Is it better than no DRM, not by a long shot, is anyone likely to get a DRM free game on the PC (short of Witcher series or indies), I highly doubt it. So to protest what MSFT is doing, they are switching to a system that isn't likely to change with the new console generation. At least the ones who don't want to go to sony are, others are going to Sony or Nintendo. I say more power to them.

It all comes down to the vote with your wallet thing, which gamers in general are horrible at doing (for the most part).

Just because Steam has been doing it longer doesn't make it better. I do use Steam and I won't buy the Xbone but you won't hear me saying "PC for the win" or anything similar because it seems stupid to me to run from Microsoft's DRM straight to PC.

People going to Sony and Nintendo, great. People going to PC are just trading DRM heavy for DRM heavy.

 

[Dryk]

People going to Sony and Nintendo, great. People going to PC are just trading DRM heavy for DRM heavy.

People can do just fine playing DRM-free games on PC, they will miss out on a lot but there's still a ton to play.

 

[J Tyran]

Also, using a mobile phone to use the Xbone. Man, that phone bill would be insane.

Tethering should have been a logical answer for the people that said they might want to travel with their Xbone or for when people have temporary problems with the landline broadband and need to do the 24hr check in, I do not know why it was such a revelation. However tethering is all well and good for people with contracts, no hints on how much bandwidth this daily check in uses so PAYG users could be out of luck even with that.

Thats just a check in, I bet the Xbone will need patches all the time just like this gen so even people with service plans could end up out of luck too. Data plans are only going to get more and more expensive from now on anyway, not until the technology changes a lot and LTE-A is not going to make any difference and it won't be until we get "real" 4G or 5G as it will probably be called until we start to get prices back on track.

People going to Sony and Nintendo, great. People going to PC are just trading DRM heavy for DRM heavy.

Because for the most part PC DRM like Steam isn't that bad, sure it might be on the used games perspective but in general its ok with offline modes and the fact that does have some benefits which make it a bit more palatable. The used games bit is cancelled out by the fact that you buy the games new from digital distribution more cheaply than you can get used copies of console games from ripoff places like Game.

 

[Sarge034]

To the people bashing on Nelson: Come on guys, he's obviously a PR guy. He's PAID to do what he does. Of course he's not some tech specialist or one of the dev team members. He's there to basically read from a script as much as possible. Don't blame the middle man. Blame Microsoft/the ones in charge.

You do know he's the director of programming for xbox live right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Hryb

Anyway, it doesn't surprise me he is dancing around the questions. At this point MS's plan is to stall and wait for the initial sale numbers of the Xbone to indicate if they actually have to address these problems.

 

[Frostbite3789]

EDIT: Basically MS have seen their future, and their future is going to be Steam...

...and, well, it's a not so bad...

The 24 hour check in or all your games go dead is the big sticking point. Steam doesn't have this. And Steam still has server problems despite being in the digital distribution game for far longer than anyone else at this point. MS has server problems for more than 24 hours, your entire library, disc based or otherwise is boned. Doesn't matter if you have the best fiber based internet out there. That's what people seem not to be getting, for everyone it isn't up to your internet. It's how reliable do you think their servers will be.

And just remember this, PSN was targeted for way less and taken down for three weeks. You think parts of Anon won't be all over this? Really?

 

[Frostbite3789]

I don't approve of what Microsoft is doing with Xbone but I can't help but to try and slap people with a little common sense when they run to Steam instead.

Sure, Steam has sales but when it comes to the DRM, Steam isn't that different. Where physical copies are concerned, Steam is worse. That's all I am saying.

Point to me where Steam requires me to go online every 24 hours. Please, by all means, tell me how it's the same or worse than the XbOne. Or every three weeks. Or every two months. Tell me when Steam does an online check. I want to say it's you have to be online once every year, if there is an online check at all.

MS servers go down for 24 hours, so does your entire gaming library on that console. Steam goes down for 24 hours? You can't do multiplayer that requires Steamworks. Not to mention PC has other methods of playing games. It's not like your entire PC gaming library is locked up.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

I started out hating Joe back in the day... now I feel nothing but respect for him.

I started out despising Microsoft, then I got to trust them, then I got to rely on them, now I am somewhere in the twilight zone of still depending on them in my daily life but questioning each and every other moves. It sure puts a strain on our relationship, and it keeps my shrink in business.


One bit i find to be very interesting, as it confirms my/our thoughts on why this slow-ass regional roll-out isn't going to speed up anytime soon:

10:50 - "...but there's a lot of things we have to do first, to make sure we're in local compliance to laws" (...)

So, yeah, when you stop just selling and dealing games, and feel the need to go multimedia and TV and whatnot, complications are a given. Still, with no apparent DVR function implemented and no other 'great things' announced, Microsoft seems to be in a rather familiar position of throwing something raw out into the market, only to watch it mature - or rot - when exposed to real life and the harsh scrutiny of friends and fans and foes alike.

I am not happy with this. Sure, it gives Sony a free boost in sympathies and potential sales, but when interpreted as a symptom, a sign of things to come and a sign of things in the 'done deal' stage behind the scenes already, I am not a happy camper.

Larry Hryb is one smooth son of a gun. Is he with Scientology? He looks and sounds well clear to me.