Angry Minnesotans Take 3D Printer Away From Gunmaker

Karloff

New member
Oct 19, 2009
6,474
0
0
This genie will not back into the bottle no matter what your personal opinion on the project is. Just like the nuclear bomb.
 

xomocekc

New member
Jan 25, 2012
15
0
0
"Imagine if your biggest part in the human drama was to stand in the way of an innovation,"
Imagine if your biggest part in the human drama was to take away a libertarian's toy.
 

rcs619

New member
Mar 26, 2011
627
0
0
Zombie_Moogle said:
What I meant was, in central Africa, the people there wouldn't be going up against an organized, modern military like those in Iran would. Iran has tanks and planes and other modern things, and those severely limit and/or nullify lightly-armed civilian resistance.

The "well it's not hard to get" argument isn't really valid, in my opinion. It isn't hard to get illegal hard-drugs like meth or heroine, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't pass laws to attempt to control their spread and make it as difficult as possible to procure them.

Like I said, I'm in favor of gun-ownership, but I do think some things need to happen. We need to make extended clips and magazines illegal, first of all. No one needs a handgun with 30 rounds, or a semi-automatic rifle with 100. The gun-show loophole needs to finally be dealt with, and there needs to be some new regulations to finally catch up with internet gun sales.

I'm torn on assault rifles, and while an assault rifle ban probably wouldn't be a bad thing, such weapons have become so pervasive in the US that I don't know if it isn't already too late for that (Unless the gun show loophole was closed, any kind of assault weapons ban would be laughable weak as well).

Basically, the two reasons anyone needs to own a gun in the US is for self-defense, and for hunting/recreation shooting. You don't need extended mags for either of those (I'd argue that no one needs an assault rifle for either of those either, but that goes back to the above point). Let's not forget the fact that most of the random, massacre style shootings in this country are committed by people using *legally* bought and purchased firearms, magazines and ammo that they owned prior to shooting up a place, or bought legally for the occasion (statistics also show that the vast majority of those instances are done with assault weapons and semi-automatic handguns, both of which would be the most impacted by limitations in clip/magazine capacity).

Not doing something because "It probably wouldn't do anything anyway" is never a good thing. It is complacency, and all it accomplishes is letting the problem get worse. In my opinion of course.

I think we're disagreeing to agree here. My comment about illegal weapons being easy to acquire wasn't an argument for no regulation, as much as an argument for effective regulation. I don't personally think limiting clip size or banning particular types of weapons would solve anything. I do think that controlling the importation and sale of unregistered weapons would.
Now the real question is: how do we go about that without strapping on the jackboots? I'm honestly not sure[/quote]

Ahh, my mistake then. I just see the "gun control doesn't do anything" argument so often as a justification for no attempts at all for gun control :)

It's a tough issue, to be honest. If there are laws to limit clips and magazines, I'd imagine there would need to be a sort of 'grace period' where you could turn in the illegal items without repercussions. Then, when that's done, being found in possession of them would be illegal. As for controlling unregistered firearms and other illegal firearms... that's going to take good, old-fashioned police work... which, honestly, gets harder and harder with all the funding cuts to police stations around the country. Legalizing marijuana would probably help some. At least it would shift police manpower to hunting down and busting people who are selling something that actually hurts people.

Either way, it's certainly a tough issue, and completely impossible in the current government. The NRA would raise a fit, all the right-wing groups they puppeteer would join in and everyone would back off. Before we can even think about things like more efficient gun regulations, among other things, we'd need to get money and superPAC's out of politics (preferably with a constitutional amendment to negate the Citizen's United ruling). Until we do that, nothing can be done because the system is fundamentally broken and stacked against the vast majority of people.
 

zidine100

New member
Mar 19, 2009
1,016
0
0
And someone has opened pandoras box, you can now say goodbye to 3d printers ever becoming common place in the uk or any country with strict gun control laws. (lets not get into a argument about this but i agree with our governments laws on gun control at the moment)
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
ravenshrike said:
The terms of the lease that they cited upon revocation explicitly required illegal action to have taken place. Since nothing was even built yet, let alone anything illegal, the revocation of the lease was invalid.
They actually didn't say that. Try again.

Zombie_Moogle said:
That image right there is the perfect argument in favor of Defense Distributed. Smart money says the next village that group rolls into will wish it had the means to better arm itself.
The beautiful thing being that the people who can already afford the guns are more likely to have the financial means to acquire the printer and materials needed to make this work.

But at least the next village that group rolls into will still be able to wish for better means....As we've effectively better armed the people who already have access.

Starving, impoverished nations are going to afford all this how, exactly? Wishful thinking? I think people are too busy thinking about this magic ideal to deal with the actual logistics.
 

Lucane

New member
Mar 24, 2008
1,491
0
0
Assassin Xaero said:
Reminds me of Balls of Fury...
Reminds me of weapon crafting in Dead Space 3 at a "work bench" type in what kind of gun you want have the materials and poof unregistered & untraceable guns for everyone.

Sorry Sally it looks like your mommy's killer won't be easy to find since he/she made his/her own gun and left it at the scene with no finger prints on it.
 

Callate

New member
Dec 5, 2008
5,118
0
0
Wanting to open-source the ability to make weapons that can be easily smuggled onto an airline doesn't make you an innovative protector of Second Amendment rights and American Individualism(tm). I'm pretty sure it just makes you a world-class irresponsible dick.
 

regalphantom

New member
Feb 10, 2011
211
0
0
Just so everybody knows, even if the 3D printer company allowed them to keep their printer, printed guns would not work. Having worked with multiple high-end printers in the past, it is highly unlikely that the material quality is no where near high enough to make something that would be able to withstand the forces involved in propelling a bullet.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
Callate said:
Wanting to open-source the ability to make weapons that can be easily smuggled onto an airline doesn't make you an innovative protector of Second Amendment rights and American Individualism(tm). I'm pretty sure it just makes you a world-class irresponsible dick.
You say that as though there's a discernable difference.
 

Lucane

New member
Mar 24, 2008
1,491
0
0
ravenshrike said:
Kross said:
The company that wants to use the printer to make gun parts is already making guns via other methods as well, right?
The point of Distributed Defense was not to make guns. It was to create what were effectively open source blueprints for guns, that anyone could use with a high enough quality 3d printer. If you live in the US it's MUCH cheaper to buy the barrel, metal stock, and time on a CNC machine than to even try to make a crappy plastic gun.
So they want to make it easier for anyone to make the things needed to make the "real" guns by anyone with a high end printer? to then be able to make any number of real guns?
 

Johnson McGee

New member
Nov 16, 2009
516
0
0
How would a printed gun be at all safe? I'm sure a homemade gun made of lego (the same material at least) totally won't explode in your hand on its first use.

I'm hoping there's more to the design than just printed parts.
 

Karloff

New member
Oct 19, 2009
6,474
0
0
No, no, no. There is a reason that you need a license to own a gun. If someone can download a CAD file and print their own gun, well, you elitist, wanker Brits who hold your barbaric lack of self-defense above us safer Americans will soon lose both your "safety" and your high ground.

tl;dr guns need to be regulated, even if the intent is positive, it will be abused.
 

Karloff

New member
Oct 19, 2009
6,474
0
0
Lucane said:
ravenshrike said:
Kross said:
The company that wants to use the printer to make gun parts is already making guns via other methods as well, right?
The point of Distributed Defense was not to make guns. It was to create what were effectively open source blueprints for guns, that anyone could use with a high enough quality 3d printer. If you live in the US it's MUCH cheaper to buy the barrel, metal stock, and time on a CNC machine than to even try to make a crappy plastic gun.
So they want to make it easier for anyone to make the things needed to make the "real" guns by anyone with a high end printer? to then be able to make any number of real guns?
That was the ultimate goal. This specific project was meant as more of a proof of concept. After all, if they could do it at all, then they could see what exactly needed to be improved and how the printer and it's material might need to change. Not to mention 3d home printing is just starting to hit it's stride. Who knows what's going to be possible in a decade.
 

ZippyDSMlee

New member
Sep 1, 2007
3,959
0
0
Ah innovation made cumbersome by idiots or greed.... A weapon is not to be fear...an idiot however is....
 

DonTsetsi

New member
May 22, 2009
262
0
0
I'd like to ask those guys one thing:
You know that arming a group of people in undeveloped countries with AKs is gonna be cheaper than providing them with a 3D printer that can produce a laughably underpowered handgun, so why do you even pretend that this would be used by anyone other than people in first world countries who can't get a gun legally?
Also, a Bulgarian AK47 (one of the best makes, with a lightweight plastic stock) can be bought illegally for 200-300 bucks in Bulgaria. Chinese versions of the AK must be a lot cheaper.
 

xomocekc

New member
Jan 25, 2012
15
0
0
DonTsetsi said:
I'd like to ask those guys one thing:
You know that arming a group of people in undeveloped countries with AKs is gonna be cheaper than providing them with a 3D printer that can produce a laughably underpowered handgun, so why do you even pretend that this would be used by anyone other than people in first world countries who can't get a gun legally?
Also, a Bulgarian AK47 (one of the best makes, with a lightweight plastic stock) can be bought illegally for 200-300 bucks in Bulgaria. Chinese versions of the AK must be a lot cheaper.
Oh my good, stop standing in the way of innovation! Don't you understand that destroying oppression and achieving freedom is only possible through the Internet and open source software. This is why it was so important for people like Notch to take a stand against Windows 8.
 

KingHodor

New member
Aug 30, 2011
167
0
0
DonTsetsi said:
I'd like to ask those guys one thing:
You know that arming a group of people in undeveloped countries with AKs is gonna be cheaper than providing them with a 3D printer that can produce a laughably underpowered handgun, so why do you even pretend that this would be used by anyone other than people in first world countries who can't get a gun legally?
Also, a Bulgarian AK47 (one of the best makes, with a lightweight plastic stock) can be bought illegally for 200-300 bucks in Bulgaria. Chinese versions of the AK must be a lot cheaper.
Supposedly, in places like Western Africa and Yemen you can get an AK for under a 100 bucks.
The Chinese Type-56 is probably the most common among those, with around 15 million units built.

In some areas of the middle east, an RPG (even newer models like the RPG-29) can be had for 500 bucks or less.

And yeah, I laugh at everyone who claims that the Glock is proof that you can make a gun from plastic because it has a plastic frame. The important parts (the barrel, chamber and action, not to mention the *bullets*, are still metal). It's like saying you can make a functioning computer with just a CNC lathe because your laptop has a machined aluminium casing.
 

DonTsetsi

New member
May 22, 2009
262
0
0
xomocekc said:
DonTsetsi said:
I'd like to ask those guys one thing:
You know that arming a group of people in undeveloped countries with AKs is gonna be cheaper than providing them with a 3D printer that can produce a laughably underpowered handgun, so why do you even pretend that this would be used by anyone other than people in first world countries who can't get a gun legally?
Also, a Bulgarian AK47 (one of the best makes, with a lightweight plastic stock) can be bought illegally for 200-300 bucks in Bulgaria. Chinese versions of the AK must be a lot cheaper.
Oh my good, stop standing in the way of innovation! Don't you understand that destroying oppression and achieving freedom is only possible through the Internet and open source software. This is why it was so important for people like Notch to take a stand against Windows 8.
I thought Notch just didn't have the money to pay for certification after redecorating his office. /jk
 

Helmholtz Watson

New member
Nov 7, 2011
2,503
0
0
So...apparently somebody so watched Die Hard 2 and thought that was a good idea?



OP:I'd say that plastic guns should be outlawed, given their undetectability.