Anime Argument #173

[loa]

Sorry, I prefer paying attention to the story that is being told instead of making juvenile power comparisons.
Cause you know that's what the show/comic is about.
Not how strong the character is but the story that is being told and if how strong the main character is is all the story there is then it's a shitty, boring story, plain and simple no matter how many planets mr mary sue breaks with atomic farts.

I know that sounds crazy but that's just how crazy I am.

Those whole "would the hulk beat spider man" arguments are pointless on so many levels.

 

[TheRundownRabbit]

Haruhi Suzumiya.

If she wanted it to, the whole universe would change to one where Goku either didn't exist, or wasn't superpowered, or didn't want to fight.

She wouldn't even realise she was doing it.

I for one will back this up. Haruhi can kick ass while not even lifting a finger.
But, yeah, I think Goku can destroy Naruto anytime.

 

[ms_sunlight]

Haruhi Suzumiya.

If she wanted it to, the whole universe would change to one where Goku either didn't exist, or wasn't superpowered, or didn't want to fight.

She wouldn't even realise she was doing it.

I call a mistrial. Haruhi would love a world where Goku existed, and thus her powers wouldn't remove him from it.

Okay, fair enough. I do think however that Yuki Nagato would think that it was dangerous for Haruhi to find out about extraterrestrials like Goku, so the Data Entity would re-write history so he didn't exist any more, or at least that he didn't come to Earth. So Haruhi, however indirectly, would still be the unknowing winner.

If you won't go for that one, I reckon I can make a case for Sasami Masaki Jurai!

 

[DarkRyter]

This thread makes me feel very lonely and unloved.

 

[The Funslinger]

The "problem" with Goku is that he is a 100% picture-perfect representation of a deus ex machina character. Everything after the death of Raditz is Goku saving the day one way or another. Nappa and Vegeta arrive and kick every's ass...then Goku shows up. Ginyus show up and kick everyone's ass...then Goku shows up. Freiza arrives and kicks everyone's ass...then Goku shows up. Androids arrive and kick everyone's ass...then Goku shows up. He then has a heart attack, allowing the androids to kick everyone's ass some more, then Cell shows up P). Cell kicks everyone's ass, then Goku shows up...and pushes Gohan to SSJ 2. And while Gohan does technically kill Cell, it is quite clear that his father gave him the energy he needed and, in one interpritation, was actually there to make it a ghost-father and son double Kamehame blast. Anyways, Buu shows up, kicks everyone's ass, then Goku shows up.

Goku isn't Deus Ex Machina, beyond his ability to train so damn effectively. Why does he win all the fights then? Because he's the main character. Every fight is Goku's fight, that's the price of being the hero of the story. Besides, like you said, Gohan beat Cell. Trunks beat Frieza (in a REAL WTF moment, btw). He's not the only person who wins fights, he just happens to be the only person who can FIGHT in most fights. The majority of his friends are just too weak to hang with the big boys.

This isn't bad storytelling, it's just simple storytelling. Dragon Ball is about Goku, first and foremost. His journeys, his fights, his victories. And he's not going to lose, because he's the good guy and the main character. If you think that is DxM, you need to redefine your definition.

As for people who can beat Goku, plenty of the stronger anime characters. Atomsk from FLCL can move entire galaxies using his N.O. powers. Simon with Gurren Lagaan is able to THROW galaxies with its hands. Light Yagami could write Goku's name in a Death Note and kill him.

As for other genres, Superman could grab Goku and fly him into space. Goku can't breathe up there, so he loses. If he somehow can, Superman flies him into the sun. Ditto any other cosmic-level hero (who isn't team based like Green Lantern or Nova).

This is a very good argument, but Goku has a teleportation move, so Superman couldn't fly him into shit. (Also, while GT sucked, I liked the ending)

Assuming this isn't anime exclusive, I think Alex Mercer could possibly beat Goku, considering he can come back from a nuclear blast. At least Goku isn't invulnerable.

I think the Hulk could, but only because the Hulk is literally invincible.

Another possibility is One Piece's Fire-fist Ace. He can turn his entire body into flame, so Goku just wouldn't be able to hit him.

Of DBZ characters, of course Vegeta has the potential to defeat Goku, although he never does. Also, I like to think that somehow, some way, the Doctor could defeat Goku. Who said he had to do it with fighting?

 

[TheBaron87]

Any argument about anything related to DBZ is automatically invalidated and rendered a moot point because the answer to EVERYTHING in that series is rendered down to FUCKING POWER LEVELS.

 

[hazabaza1]

Good point but can Goku defeat this?

Spoiler: Tenga Toppa Gurren Lagann

It is the size of 10 Million Light Years in height so Goku doesn't appear as a dot to it.

Ok assuming let say he just fight Simon/ Kamina or just Gurren Lagan, Goku would probably lose.

The fact they operate on the do "make the impossible possible" so in that logic they can define Goku logic (e.g. if Goku use the spirit bomb or Kamehameha, they make their drill and it would pierce the blast and into Goku himself).

I was gonna say that Goku beats anything forever, but then you posted this and I remembered that a weaker version of this punched another robot so hard he tore space itself and hit the other robot into another dimension. So instead I'm gonna go with these guys.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

This is a very good argument, but Goku has a teleportation move, so Superman couldn't fly him into shit. (Also, while GT sucked, I liked the ending)

It's been a while since I watched DBZ, but was Instant Transmission teleportation or just extremely fast movement? I remember Goku stating pretty specifically that it was him moving at the speed of light, which is still "movement" and thus couldn't break Superman's grip.

 

[RJ 17]

This is a very good argument, but Goku has a teleportation move, so Superman couldn't fly him into shit. (Also, while GT sucked, I liked the ending)

It's been a while since I watched DBZ, but was Instant Transmission teleportation or just extremely fast movement? I remember Goku stating pretty specifically that it was him moving at the speed of light, which is still "movement" and thus couldn't break Superman's grip.

It is officially teleportation. When Goku arrives back on Earth after the Freiza saga, he explains how instant transmission works. It involves breaking his body down into particles and that swarm of particles is what flies at the speed of light.

 

[Vigilante 989]

Fuck, Shit, your right.

OK I got it. Use the Death Note to control all the human characters to make them find the dragon balls and wish for Goku to be deaf, dumb, blind, and no limbs.

I hope I didn't miss anything.

Wasn't all Dragon Balls on Earth lost after

Spoiler

the Piccolo-God died?

Though if the controlled people don't know where the dragon balls are to begin with they'd just die of an heart attack anyway.

Yeah, he did die, but someone else from Piccolo's planet went to Earth and became the new god. And the controlled people are going to know where the dragon balls are with the dragon ball locator.

 

[The Funslinger]

This is a very good argument, but Goku has a teleportation move, so Superman couldn't fly him into shit. (Also, while GT sucked, I liked the ending)

It's been a while since I watched DBZ, but was Instant Transmission teleportation or just extremely fast movement? I remember Goku stating pretty specifically that it was him moving at the speed of light, which is still "movement" and thus couldn't break Superman's grip.

No, he stated that the technique turned his body into particles of light that moved instantly to where he wanted to go. Why do you think he doesn't bust up walls every time he teleports inside a building? /nerdyeah!

 

[axlryder]

There are so many characters that could destroy ssj3 Goku, anime or otherwise. Aside from Golden age superman and possibly modern supes, every other iteration of superman would destroy goku. I don't like Superman (I hate him, actually), but his feats are simply ridiculous. In terms of anime: Kami Tenchi, Dark Schneider, Lord of Nightmares, Chousin, Ideon. Just off the top of my head there, but all of those characters (and robot) would eliminate any canonical iteration of Goku with extremely little effort at full power.

 

[Adamc-mh]

Thats why I began to dislike DBZ by the the two buu saga's because (SPOILER) vegeta should of killed Buu with the sacrifice explosion (it was at the height of his character development and he did nothing) and Gohan's new found power and confidence (also the height of his character development) did nothing, Goku had to save the day once again.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

snip

Spoiler: Ill solve this dispute for you, Superman is just one character that beats both of them and click here to see why

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

comparing characters that exist in different realities is pointless as there is no baseline.

Half the fun of being a nerd is being able to do that. I've had long, intense arguments over which would win: A Super-Star Destroyer, or a Retribution-class Battleship.

The Super-Star Destroyer.

Retribution-class Battleship.

My money's on the Retribution.

I'd say that tyranids stand a pretty good chance, given their nature.

 

[megajon]

I would say someone has an good chance at beating goku is Bellcross/age from heroic age they destroy planet sized ships without any trouble simply by ramming into it and the energy blast if not just as strong as goku's if not stronger, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would easily beat goku no problem the thing alone is bigger then goku but bigger then a large scale galaxy its abilites are unmeasurable simple. As much as i love DBZ and goku and think hes awesome hes far from strongest anime character around i could name a whole list of characters stronger then him.

 

[k-ossuburb]

Goku is frickin' Goku.

Okay, I'll play, as others have pointed out, it's part of the fun of being a nerd being able to do these "who would win" kind of arguments. However, for my own amusement, I'm going to try to get creative.

Okay, my first choice? Dr. Floppleoctopus, the little guy in my avatar over there.

Yes, he can only just about fit into the palm of your hand and yes, he doesn't look all that tough but I created him as a "be-all-and-end-all" character for when these kind of arguments arose and I felt like being a bit of a dick and annoying people.

Basically, anything your character can do will not harm him in any way, he's immune to everything, including time itself, if the universe ended, he'd still be around because the form you see there is actually just a distorted quantum projection of his inter-dimensional self, which extends beyond all reality, he probably won't even notice you're attacking him at first, but when he finally does he pretty much just deletes the universe you're in so he can have a little peace and quiet for a while.

I pretty much just drop him in as a way to show people why Mary Sue characters are stupid unless you're going to actually put the effort into having a little imagination go into your perfect character.

Second choice in my team, Yog-Sothoth.

Not Cthulu, oh no, Cthulu and all of his octopi-headed spawn are mere ants in comparison to this nightmarish outer-god. See, Chtulu, as awesome as he is, is typically a physical being, Yog-Sothoth, on the other hand, is the lord of all space and time. Goku might be a god-like character, but he's no GOD and even Goku needs time and space to exist, if those do not exist, or are being manipulated beyond his limited reasoning, he will fail.

My last option will be one from anime, but my knowledge is sadly limited in this field.

I don't know much about anime, so the only fighter I know of is Kenshiro. One thing I've noticed that Goku does is that he does tend to stand around a lot during a fight either powering up a move or just waiting for the next commercial break/episode to happen. Kenshiro has no time for that shit, so if he can get in a few hits, Goku's head will explode, no problem.

However Goku can teleport and whatever, so it's a long shot, but if, IF Kenshiro gets those hits in, head will go 'splody boom!

 

[geK0]

As for everyone saying Death Note = Death to Goku, as a few others have pointed out: the book doesn't work on none-humans, and Goku isn't human, so that negates that argument.

Saiyans are able to breed with humans and have viable offspring; I think saiyans are close enough to being human for the deathnote to work on them.

 

[Saltyk]

I pretty much agree with you on all but one subject. Goku could beat Superman even without kryptonite. Yes, that's DBZ era Goku, not GT (which never happened). Personally, I think Goku would be pretty equal with Superman in terms of power by at least Super Saiyan 2, and completely surpass him as Super Saiyan 3. Sure Superman is powerful, but Goku can pretty much destroy a planet in his base form by the end of DBZ.

And honestly, it comes down to skill. Goku would be using punches, kicks, blocks, dodges, and energy attacks. He has trained with many of the greatest martial arts masters in history. He trained with Roshi and learned a technique it took him 50 years to master in about five minutes after seeing it once. Then fought pretty evenly with Roshi in his first tournament. He also trained with Korin, Kami, and King Kai. Fought some of the strongest warriors on Earth (as a child), defeated Vegeta and Nappa, beat the tyrant, Frieza, fought evenly with Perfect Cell, Fat Buu, and even Kid Buu. And let's not forget that Goku enjoys fighting. And Goku ha experience fighting people that are his equal or even stronger than him. Where Superman spends most of his time stopping bank robbers.

As for Superman. He can throw a punch. Yeah, that's about the sum total of his fighting skills. If people complain that DBZ got to a point where power trumps skill, Superman lives that. He has no combat skills to speak of. He simply relies on his massive strength. When has he dodged attacks from an opponent that could be considered his equal or even his better?

Yeah, Goku would wipe the floor with Superman. Though it would be a great fight!

And I am looking forward to the eventual Death Battle of Goku versus Superman. Hey, people are always asking for it, and they promised that they will make it eventually. Though, I figure they will end up making it a tie. It'll still be epic!

 

[gregitaly]

Goku vs Naruto? That's an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object right there.