Anonymous Dev Claims Nintendo Unfamiliar with PSN and Xbox Live

144_v1legacy

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Just read the article.
I've decided that there are a few things I should bring up regarding the rest of the anonymous's statement. And some things he said. First of all:

... "They wanted a console that was the same size as the Wii and wouldn't make much noise, so "mum wouldn't mind having it in the living room". It was during this statement that quiet alarm bells started to ring in my brain, but I ignored them and continued watching the presentation."

I'm no developer, but that seems like a noble goal for a company such as Nintendo that aims for a family-friendly branding. I think those quiet alarms may have been a bit early and unprovoked.

... "I realised the reason for my earlier alarm bells. If Nintendo wanted the hardware to have a small footprint and be quiet, they needed minimal fan noise, meaning that cooling was limited, which in turn meant that the CPU would have to produce a minimal amount of heat, which meant that the clock speed would have to be kept low. While I can't confirm specific details, the collective thoughts of the internet are presented for reference on Wikipedia."

So Mr. Anonymous perhaps feels that the product may be doomed to fail. Although, his string of logic seems a bit dismissive. For instance, why do laptops of similar size and the same CPU's sometimes have different rates of heating up? Why can a Macbook produce no noise while being stronger than one of my other non-mac laptops (and weaker than the other)? I wonder, perhaps there are sometimes more than one way to solve a problem?

... "over the course of six months we received multiple different development kits in a variety of colours, none of which revealed why they were different from the previous one. We knew that there were some hardware bugs that were being fixed, but the release notes rarely stated what had changed - we just had to take the new ones and get them working with our code again"

Mr. Anonymous has a point here if this is true for the whole 3rd party industry. Unfortunately, it seems Nintendo didn't communicate well. Mr. Anonymous also claims that correspondence was frequently late and in broken English, so that was handled very poorly by Nintendo. However, I'm less inclined to take this lack of communication seriously if Mr. Anonymous doesn't work for a larger 3rd party after all, and in fact works for someone that Nintendo simply doesn't have time for (again, Nintendo should have the same respect for all devs, but there are a lot of them). But if this is a larger company, like Ubisoft or Tecmo, then for shame, Nintendo. And I bet it is.

..."We were told that the features, and the OS updates to support them, would be available before the hardware launch, but only just. There were apparently issues with setting up a large networking infrastructure to rival Sony and Microsoft that they hadn't envisaged.

This was surprising to hear, as we would have thought that they had plenty of time to work on these features as it had been announced months before"


Perhaps the reason they didn't have time to work on it was because they were trying to find ways to solve the aforementioned hardware capability issues. It would explain the constant changes in the hardware of the dev kits and the lack of communication. And to some degree, it sounds like they did manage to get something done, as, by Mr. Anonymous's own admission, the GPU was better than expected, perhaps Nintendo's answer to the CPU being only okay as predicted.

And I'm sure Nintendo has used PSN and XBL. The controversial quote was almost certainly made during the broken English correspondence, with a poor translation deliberately taken out of context. Considering Japanese sentence structure, particle omissions, etc., I imagine the attempted statement was along the lines of "Please stop comparing this service to the PSN or the XBL; we want our gamers to have an experience that is unique to Nintendo, as opposed to playing those." But a broken, direct translation may have been: "To PSN and XBL please don't say about. [implied subject] don't use those services." Pick a subject. The translator picked the speaker. I imagine the intention was the consumers, and there was probably another sentence to prove it, as well as clarifying verbs.

...

So which dev?

It's probably someone who launched a release game, or close to it. It's probably not the one responsible for AssCreed4 or ME3, since those were examples used in the article. I also imagine it's based in an English-speaking country (at least not a Japanese-speaking one, anyway). It's also likely a company that only has one game on the Wii U roster.

I'm going with:
Vigil Games, with Darksiders II.
A cursory reading of the game states that it was critically well-received, but sales did not meet expectations. A cursory reading of the company states that it went bankrupt, and as such Mr. Anonymous was likely unemployed at time of writing. Vigil was working on a Microsoft Windows title at time of closure.

I was going to say Rocksteady studios, what with it being British and all, but I read the Wii U section of Wikipedia's Arkham City and found too much glowing praise for the Wii U to think it's them.
 

Dragonbums

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Elithraradril said:
Dragonbums said:
For every 30 comments of people patting themselves on the back because Nintendo once again is "out of touch with the 21st century" because some random guy who claims to be a dev says so
Nope it's the other way around. People give this guy some credit, because Nintendo IS OUT OF TOUCH with 21st century, so his story sounds valid.
No it doesn't. It only sounds valid to you because it serves as a confirmation bias to your own opinions. There are some things Nintendo is lagging behind, sure. However I'm not going to give credit to some anonymous source from who knows where, written by who fucking knows, about a company we don't know the inner workings of. Especially if they are claiming that Nintendo has NEVER used any of their competitors services. Not even looking up a fucking Youtube video.

Especially evident when a bunch devs already called out the source of this as total garbage http://www.destructoid.com/experienced-devs-counter-anonymous-wii-u-criticisms-268857.phtml

I mean, come on now.
 

Casual Shinji

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I'd have hard time believing this was true, if not for the fact that Nintendo also apparently had zero experience and quite a hard time with high definition when working on the Wii-U. When the competion already had 7 years of experience under their belt. They seem to operate within their own little bubble. So if this story were to be true it really wouldn't surprise me.
 

chozo_hybrid

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Casual Shinji said:
I'd have hard time believing this was true, if not for the fact that Nintendo also apparently had zero experience and quite a hard time with high definition when working on the Wii-U. When the competion already had 7 years of experience under their belt. They seem to operate within their own little bubble. So if this story were to be true it really wouldn't surprise me.
They just need time, who knows. The Wii U could have massive changes made to its online over time. The Xbox 360 started out pretty damn bumpy in my opinion, at least here in NZ. I'm happy with my Wii U and PC setup at the moment, so I can still play big multiplayer games and still enjoy what the Wii U has to offer.
 

FalloutJack

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You know, I almost read this as a weird message from those hacker dumbasses. Still, wait...ummm...no, I don't get it. What does this MEAN exactly?
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Dragonbums said:
No it doesn't. It only sounds valid to you because it serves as a confirmation bias to your own opinions. There are some things Nintendo is lagging behind, sure. However I'm not going to give credit to some anonymous source from who knows where, written by who fucking knows, about a company we don't know the inner workings of. Especially if they are claiming that Nintendo has NEVER used any of their competitors services. Not even looking up a fucking Youtube video.

Especially evident when a bunch devs already called out the source of this as total garbage http://www.destructoid.com/experienced-devs-counter-anonymous-wii-u-criticisms-268857.phtml

I mean, come on now.
Heck, Hideki Kamiya has chipped in as well:

http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=220379

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we can just file this under "some anon got to pretend his opinion was newsworthy." Moving on.
 

Arnoxthe1

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Dragonbums said:
Especially evident when a bunch devs already called out the source of this as total garbage http://www.destructoid.com/experienced-devs-counter-anonymous-wii-u-criticisms-268857.phtml

I mean, come on now.
While they did counter a lot of things, I notice that they didn't counter the claim of how behind Nintendo allegedly was with with its online capabilities.

It is actually believable though considering Nintendo's goals and their really late start into online gaming.
 

AzrealMaximillion

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KoudelkaMorgan said:
So this story is basically "I read a story about a guy that was talking to another guy and they said that..."

With no sources, at all, they only way to verify this allegation is for Nintendo to come out and say "we are one of the oldest, most successful, most profitable, and most experienced games companies in the world and if you honestly believe that no one in this company has ever used our competitors services, even once purely for a frame of reference you are wrong."

I don't doubt that they had more work than they thought going into the process, but really? We are expected to take at face value what appears to be a reposting of a troll story with the tag #derpynintendo?
Agreed. I don't want to see the Escapist go into the direction of Kotaku and start making stuff up. I've got enough problems with the gaming media as it is and we don't need another website going to the dogs.
 

Elithraradril

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Dragonbums said:
No it doesn't. It only sounds valid to you because it serves as a confirmation bias to your own opinions. There are some things Nintendo is lagging behind, sure.
Like 'everything'. Nintendo is fine as hardware & software producer but as publisher and distributor they're somewhere around gameboy advanced era.

Dragonbums said:
However I'm not going to give credit to some anonymous source from who knows where, written by who fucking knows, about a company we don't know the inner workings of.
You actually expect to ever get this kind of info with specified source ? :) You sign this kind of news and your career in IT is over. No company will ever hire a guy stupid enought to admit that he shared details of business meeting with press. So there are two options: you get anonymous info, or you get years-outdated info that cannot harm current business activities.

Dragonbums said:
Especially if they are claiming that Nintendo has NEVER used any of their competitors services. Not even looking up a fucking Youtube video.
Well, this at least explains why digital distribution by Nintendo is fucking joke. It's this or they're just too lazy to give a damn about their customers.
 

Dragonbums

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Elithraradril said:
]

Like 'everything'. Nintendo is fine as hardware & software producer but as publisher and distributor they're somewhere around gameboy advanced era.

Aside from the fact that your comment has no relation to the part of the comment you quoted, your going to have to elaborate on their publisher status a lot. Because you still seem to think that an anonymous source already debunked as crap by various other developers and more recently the head of P* is true.
Again, confirmation bias at work.

Dragonbums said:
You actually expect to ever get this kind of info with specified source ? :)
You fucking bet I do if you expect me to even begin to take this with less than a can of salt.




You sign this kind of news and your career in IT is over.
Hasn't stopped other studios from doing it publicly. The only bridge they are burning is with Nintendo, and as far as every third party dev on Nintendo is concerned, they could care less.



No company will ever hire a guy stupid enought to admit that he shared details of business meeting with press. So there are two options: you get anonymous info,
Regardless, the person who said that nonsense will get found out internally anyway. And he will get fired.




or you get years-outdated info that cannot harm current business activities.

Except this news story is clearly hurting the business image of Nintendo regardless of whether or not it's true.

And if it's known to be outdated by years, why in the actual fuck would any news site with an ounce of integrity bother to even post news articles on it?- oh right, it's to generate click bait material.



Well, this at least explains why digital distribution by Nintendo is fucking joke. It's this or they're just too lazy to give a damn about their customers.
What the heck? Did you even read my comment?

Also, what exactly is bad about their distribution system? Last time I checked, you find a game on the store, you buy it, it downloads, and it's on your system. Seems to me that you haven't used their services at all. The real big complaint is a unified account system. That's it.
The act of actually buying a fucking game from Nintendo's online store is just as much of a hassle as doing it on the PSN, and Xbox Live.
 

Dragonbums

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Arnoxthe1 said:
Dragonbums said:
Especially evident when a bunch devs already called out the source of this as total garbage http://www.destructoid.com/experienced-devs-counter-anonymous-wii-u-criticisms-268857.phtml

I mean, come on now.
While they did counter a lot of things, I notice that they didn't counter the claim of how behind Nintendo allegedly was with with its online capabilities.

It is actually believable though considering Nintendo's goals and their really late start into online gaming.

One of the devs elaborated (as much as you can on Twitter anyway) that the whole online thing was simply a problem in the very very early devkits. That has since been improved tremendously during the Wii U's lifespan. As for Nintendo's experience with online systems? I mean...do we reeeeeeeallllly need someone to verify that people at Nintendo actually do have a bare minimum experience of Xbox Live and PSN?

I mean, really, the last console I owned not from Nintendo was the PS2, and even I have used the Xbox Live and PSN at some point. To make such an accusation at the staff at Nintendo is pure nonsense.


EDIT: It should also be noted that since devs claimed this was a problem long since abolished very early in the Wii U's life, and that it's clear that these devs don't have a continuous working relationship with Nintendo (otherwise they would've known they improved drastically) a good amount of people have deduced down to 3-4 studios who may be the origins of this "source"

EDIT AGAIN: According to various links in the comments section of multiple websites, the person in question is from Criterion. http://www.doomedsince1889.com/2014/01/12/digital-foundrys-secret-developers-the-wii-u-story-anonymous-developer-exposed/


Good job Eurogamer.
 

Elithraradril

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Also, what exactly is bad about their distribution system? Last time I checked, you find a game on the store, you buy it, it downloads, and it's on your system. Seems to me that you haven't used their services at all.
Last time I've checked it was full of region lock, had ancient payment system, ridiculous prices and no interface other than 3DS itself.
Also about 2 months after I got mine DS the official Nintedo site in my country turned into smth like this:
http://microsite.nintendo-europe.com/poland-europe/

Nice, isn't it ?

Sorry, but if I'm being considered third rate customer, than I'm forced to consider to see Nintendo as third rate distributor.
 

exobook

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Though to be fair there is a difference between someone in Nintendo who plays other systems and one that will admit it in front of the company
 

sXeth

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I wouldn't necessarily doubt that some of the bigwigs have their heads off in the (non-internet) clouds. But I'm kind of doubting the tech teams are that far out of it. They could be doing an early 2000s microsoft though (back when MS had prototypes of smartphones and e-readers, and the upper crust ditched the projects cause they weren't Windowsy enough, allowing Apple to swoop in and murder them)
 

Dragonbums

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Elithraradril said:
Also, what exactly is bad about their distribution system? Last time I checked, you find a game on the store, you buy it, it downloads, and it's on your system. Seems to me that you haven't used their services at all.
Last time I've checked it was full of region lock, had ancient payment system, ridiculous prices and no interface other than 3DS itself.
Also about 2 months after I got mine DS the official Nintedo site in my country turned into smth like this:
http://microsite.nintendo-europe.com/poland-europe/

Nice, isn't it ?

Sorry, but if I'm being considered third rate customer, than I'm forced to consider to see Nintendo as third rate distributor.
First off, reply to me directly.

Secondly- outrageous prices? Like what? Unless your in the Australian region, the prices are normal like all the other distributors.

Third...3DS is the shop interface....yeeees? Your using the 3DS online shop. So it would only make sense that it would be designed for the handheld in mind.

Fourth, what outdated payment system? Again, you don't elaborate. You can pay with eshop cards, You can pay with credit card, and if you want- you can save that credit info so you don't have to input all those numbers again and secure it with a pass code. That's something even Amazon does. Not to mention just recently they now have the NNID system which allows you to combine money from your Wii U and 3DS accounts.

As for the link, it doesn't say anything of value to me. All it says is that they are restructuring how they do stuff with Poland. It tells me nothing on what they are doing with Poland that affects you negatively. This doesn't help your argument at all.
 
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"oh its not as powerful as other consoles"
"oh its not got live capabilities like other consoles"
"oh is not in the 21st century like other consoles"

no wonder theres such lack of inovation everywhere, if these are the loudest voices
"be the same"
"be the same"
"be the same"
 

Elithraradril

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Dragonbums said:
Secondly- outrageous prices? Like what? Unless your in the Australian region, the prices are normal like all the other distributors.
In USA. In Europe Ninny's prices are at lest 30-40% higher than i.e. SONY and while games for PSP/Vita/PS3 are getting cheaper and cheaper in time, Nintendo still wants 17 GBP for first Ace Attorney.

Dragonbums said:
Third...3DS is the shop interface....yeeees? Your using the 3DS online shop. So it would only make sense that it would be designed for the handheld in mind.
It would make sense to buy games wherever I want, so that I can for example buy gift for someone. Or I could, you know, buy game from work so that somebody at home can already download it while I'm gone, but it's nintenot possible :)

Dragonbums said:
Fourth, what outdated payment system? Again, you don't elaborate. You can pay with eshop cards,
Not available where I live.

Dragonbums said:
You can pay with credit card
Last time I've checked you could make only prepayment to your account, so if I wanted to buy game for 30$ I still had to transfer 50$.

Dragonbums said:
As for the link, it doesn't say anything of value to me.
And that's exactly the problem. It's from August FFS,a they didn't even care to put info that they can't compete with PC ,Sony & MS so they're withdrawing from local market. It's rather sad IMO.

We've been probably off topic for a while, so lets leave it. In US Nintendo is fine, in Europe (especially outside UK) ...not so much.
 

Dragonbums

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Elithraradril said:
In USA. In Europe Ninny's prices are at lest 30-40% higher than i.e. SONY and while games for PSP/Vita/PS3 are getting cheaper and cheaper in time, Nintendo still wants 17 GBP for first Ace Attorney.

Do you have proof of that? Because I can go on Steam right now and find other publishers charging their digital games full price on their digital distribution system, and I rarely hear people call foul on Valve for that.

As for Ace Attorney prices- that's not even a first party Nintendo game. IF the price is still that high, then you might want to take your grievances to Capcom.

Also, PSP, and PS3 price comparisons are poor. Of course PSP games would be ass cheap. How old is that system? Of course PS3 games are getting cheaper ( you know, sans the new ones for this gen and last gen) because it's now an old system. Actually on that note, there are still plenty of PS3 games priced $60 damn bucks. So I don't know where this complaint is coming from. Especially when you provide zero price comparisons.

It would make sense to buy games wherever I want,
I can buy games from the 3DS eshop wherever I want as well. The same can be said for the PS Network. Providing there is an internet connection (duh) and I have a PS vita on hand. Soooooo, where does that put Sony in that category?

I also wasn't aware you can use Xbox Live wherever I wanted as well. Last time I checked, the closest thing to that was Games for Windows, which just recently shut down and was limited to PC games anyway. and Microsoft to my knowledge has no handheld systems So does that make Xbox Live a shitty distribution system?

The only online store front that comes close to buying games wherever one wants in your definition is Steam and the app store. Steam being less viable than the app store unless you like lugging around your laptop everywhere. Sure, they have the phone app, but it's not like you can PLAY those games until after you get back home. So the app store for iOS and Android are the closest to what I'm assuming is your definition of "buy games wherever I want".



so that I can for example buy gift for someone. Or I could, you know, buy game from work so that somebody at home can already download it while I'm gone, but it's nintenot possible :)
That has got to be the most specific and niche thing I have ever heard anyone say.
I can't even do that with fucking Steam.
I have nobody at home who knows my steam password to download my game for me once I purchase it on my phone. Yet alone have a method of telling them "hey, Sal just bought Mass Effect 2 on Origin- do you want to download the game for her?" That's literally a feature I have never even heard before on ANY of the current online distribution systems. That's not a "Nintendont" That's something I have not heard any digital storefront be able to do to date or to my knowledge. Your gonna need to link that one for me. Because right now you are pulling things out of your butt.

Your gifting criticism is the only thing you brought up in this comment that actually makes sense for Nintendo to have right now.

Not available where I live.
Well that really sucks.

Last time I've checked you could make only prepayment to your account, so if I wanted to buy game for 30$ I still had to transfer 50$.
Not true, if you were to simply look just a tiny bit more you will see that there is another option button that states something along the lines of "take out required funds" meaning, if the game costs $30 bucks, you are only going to spend $30.00.

And that's exactly the problem. It's from August FFS,a they didn't even care to put info that they can't compete with PC ,Sony & MS so they're withdrawing from local market. It's rather sad IMO.
How the hell can you make such an accusation of they never provided information about it in the first place? How can you state that they are going to shaft Poland 3DS players if they never even STATED what restructuring is going to take place.
How do you even know they are withdrawing from the local market? Especially when it says " to better serve the Poland area". Withdrawing from a country is not better serving the people in that country. Come on dude.



We've been probably off topic for a while, so lets leave it. In US Nintendo is fine, in Europe (especially outside UK) ...not so much.
Hardly off topic. Since- after all, the devs claimed that Nintendo doesn't know online infrastructure, and we are talking about their online infrastructure.
 

Elithraradril

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Dragonbums said:
Do you have proof of that? Because I can go on Steam right now and find other publishers charging their digital games full price on their digital distribution system, and I rarely hear people call foul on Valve for that.
Oh, so you claim there are massive sales in Nintendo's store ? Otherwise there no point bring up Steam, is there ?

I can buy games from the 3DS eshop wherever I want as well. The same can be said for the PS Network. Providing there is an internet connection (duh) and I have a PS vita on hand. Soooooo, where does that put Sony in that category?
You do realize that PSN have normal, browser based store as well, so I can buy games for Vita/PS3/PS4 without touching any of them ?

That has got to be the most specific and niche thing I have ever heard anyone say.
I can't even do that with fucking Steam.
Advice: just leave you PC on and you can download games remotely via WebBrowser or SteamApp :)

I have nobody at home who knows my steam password to download my game for me once I purchase it on my phone.
Why do you think that Valve is introducing shared content for users on the same machine ? Bacause it's fairly common that people share one Steam account when they live together. :)

How the hell can you make such an accusation of they never provided information about it in the first place? How can you state that they are going to shaft Poland 3DS players if they never even STATED what restructuring is going to take place.
Well I don't need Martians to send "we're not coming" note to see they're not here. Nintendo have been almost absent on local market for years, and now they're simply absent. :)

How do you even know they are withdrawing from the local market? Especially when it says " to better serve the Poland area". Withdrawing from a country is not better serving the people in that country. Come on dude.
And contact email is from german domain so they don't even have single representative in PL :)

Not true, if you were to simply look just a tiny bit more you will see that there is another option button that states something along the lines of "take out required funds" meaning, if the game costs $30 bucks, you are only going to spend $30.00.
Nice, it's a progress.