Anonymous Strikes Again

[DoPo]

So what? Instead of Anonymous taking down websites, there would be no websites at all. It would be like closing all airports so nobody could call with a bomb threat and close them. It's utterly and completely useless and counter productive.

I didn't suggest they shut down the internet to prevent Anon to take down their websites, don't be silly. I suggested it to prevent anon to delete Greeks citizens revenue debts but apparently you're unawere of that part or choosed not to acknowledge it.

It does not matter. There are better ways to protect a bunch of numbers from locking them away in a room and throwing the key. Because this is what you're suggesting, essentially. Multiply redundant offline backups, rings a bell?

Let's leave aside the fact that the law would need time and effort to come in place. How do you think that would work? How exactly would the government say "internet must stop" and everybody will agree? Did you see SOPA/PIPA/ACTA? That law would be worse than all of them combined and multiplied. Not to mention that it's against a whole lot of other laws. There is simply now way for this to happen quietly nor to convince ISPs to stop working.

Anyone would agree I'm sure but companies would have to do it even if they don't agree. I what the public do, riots? as it would be any different from now.

More than riots. And as I said, I was ignoring the fact that it would take time to happen. I don't understand why you keep thinking that the government would simply be allowed to do it. It's against lots of other laws. It's worse than SOPA and it's possible that the entire world will rise against it. Like they did with SOPA.

I...know what you're talking about. I doubt you do either.

I do, and when I'm not sure it mention it. Glad that's clarified

If you really wish so, here:

And finally, the government would be sued so hard that I doubt any lawyer would dare say anything less than "My clients plead guilty and would like at least double the punishment you're thinking of." Businesses and people all rely in the Internet.

Apparently even though they are in such an economic problem everyone has internet.

Why. Why would economic problems mean losing access to the Internet? And what does this have to do with businesses/people on the Internet? Help me understand why the thing you are saying makes any sense. Greece also have public transportation, so should they stop that because they have economic problems? No, denying people internet access would cost them money and put them in even more shit than before (aside the legal one). Furthermore, the government doesn't own internet access, so it's not like they can just pull the plug if they don't have the money.

See what i did there? I ignored the part where you had a point about losing jobs like you ignored some of my points.

I'm "ignoring" them those points made no sense. I'll state it plainly: Greece cannot shut down the Internet of the entire damn country. It is not possible legally, it's not possible because of the side effects, it's not possible because it's stupid. And you keep talking about it casually as if it's going to happen.

Just to clarify, I'm actually on Anon's side on this i just barely seriously suggested what the Greek goverment could do to prevent their attack.

I don't take a side. I just think that realistically suggesting "Greece should shut down internet" is the stupidest thing I heard this week. It's still Wednesday.

 

[esperandote]

It does not matter. There are better ways to protect a bunch of numbers from locking them away in a room and throwing the key. Because this is what you're suggesting, essentially. Multiply redundant offline backups, rings a bell?

That makes more sense, you should have started there. I was already thinking something along those lines too.

Why. Why would economic problems mean losing access to the Internet? And what does this have to do with businesses/people on the Internet? Help me understand why the thing you are saying makes any sense.

I don't see what's so hard to understand that economics issues can lead to not being able to pay internet bills.

 

[DoPo]

It does not matter. There are better ways to protect a bunch of numbers from locking them away in a room and throwing the key. Because this is what you're suggesting, essentially. Multiply redundant offline backups, rings a bell?

That makes more sense, you should have started there. I was already thinking something along those lines too.

But you said "shut down Internet". That is not and will never be the way to do it. Unless Skynet attacks, or something. Taking down the government's web pages to remove the targets is slightly more sensible but even then it's really, really unlikely. Even that page that got attacked is still online. Sort of, but still online.

Why. Why would economic problems mean losing access to the Internet? And what does this have to do with businesses/people on the Internet? Help me understand why the thing you are saying makes any sense.

I don't see what's so hard to understand that economics issues can lead to not being able to pay internet bills.

Because the ones who cannot afford it will not, however, the people that need the Internet, they will pay for Internet. I said they "depend" on it. True, not all of the people but enough. If you're a business that is on there, you will not possibly drop your access. And most businesses depend on the Internet in one form or another. The Net has gone from a commodity to a standard and not paying for it may be as bad as not having a car. Sure, not everyone needs one but there are enough who do.

Besides, the crisis is portrayed a bit excessively. It's not that there isn't a crisis, it's the fact that not every single person is now broke. They still have the means to pay but they can afford less. Internet is not really one of the first things to go when you cut the costs. Been there, done that.

 

[cora mcstrap]

Anonymous, at it's core, is better for the internet than people believe.

I disagree completely. How can a group of people who only person is to try and force people to agree with then or have their websites 404'ed be a good thing. It's like an internet protection racket. I mean look at it. What have the Greeks done to deserve 1 of their websites attacked. If they have attacked a German website i might be less annoyed.

The EU is doing a lot to keep the internet free (much to America's dislike) and thats still not good enough for ill-informed children that make up Anon

I'm pretty sure that you have no clue what you're talking about. I have yet to see any proof that this is Anonymous, and at this point, all you guys are doing is slinging shit. If it really were Anonymous, they'd have a good reason to do it and would take credit for it.

Oh gee an Anon Fanboy. They engage in illegal acts like hacking and relay on a modern society that rather pirate then buy and think that breaking the law is cool. I do what I'm talking about becasue i live in the grown-up world where you only get what you put in.

Anon on criminals and sooner or later will end up in various prisions around the world.... where they belong

 

[DoPo]

They engage in illegal acts like hacking

"Hacking" is not illegal. The term you need is "cracking".

Personal pet peeve of mine.

EDIT: Actually "malicious hacking" also works.

 

[KrossBillNye]

They engage in illegal acts like hacking

"Hacking" is not illegal. The term you need is "cracking".

Personal pet peeve of mine.

EDIT: Actually "malicious hacking" also works.

YES! Thank you. Also the same for me.

Hacking is very VERY helpful and Legal.

Not too sure what is the story with Greece's government's site being taken down. Could just be an Anon not part of Anonymous. As they haven't really said anything on their channels of any opts.

 

[esperandote]

It does not matter. There are better ways to protect a bunch of numbers from locking them away in a room and throwing the key. Because this is what you're suggesting, essentially. Multiply redundant offline backups, rings a bell?

That makes more sense, you should have started there. I was already thinking something along those lines too.

But you said "shut down Internet". That is not and will never be the way to do it. Unless Skynet attacks, or something. Taking down the government's web pages to remove the targets is slightly more sensible but even then it's really, really unlikely. Even that page that got attacked is still online. Sort of, but still online.

You're hanging on to what I said previously as if i hadn't say that what you said makes more sense. On the other hand they could make multiple backups on off line servers of the revenue debts information but that's just one group of information Anon could target. Then they would need to make multiple off-line backups of everything, wich in the end could be impossible too.

Why. Why would economic problems mean losing access to the Internet? And what does this have to do with businesses/people on the Internet? Help me understand why the thing you are saying makes any sense.

I don't see what's so hard to understand that economics issues can lead to not being able to pay internet bills.

Because the ones who cannot afford it will not, however, the people that need the Internet, they will pay for Internet. I said they "depend" on it. True, not all of the people but enough. If you're a business that is on there, you will not possibly drop your access. And most businesses depend on the Internet in one form or another. The Net has gone from a commodity to a standard and not paying for it may be as bad as not having a car. Sure, not everyone needs one but there are enough who do. Maybe they could get only their servers offline.

Besides, the crisis is portrayed a bit excessively. It's not that there isn't a crisis, it's the fact that not every single person is now broke. They still have the means to pay but they can afford less. Internet is not really one of the first things to go when you cut the costs. Been there, done that.

Did it make sense now?

 

[DoPo]

On the other hand they could make multiple backups on off line servers of the revenue debts information but that's just one group of information Anon could target. Then they would need to make multiple off-line backups of everything, wich in the end could be impossible too.

I am pretty sure that redundant backups are the standard in all situations where you really need backups. At least if you have good admins to look after the data. It sounds as if you believe that the government that handles extremely important data has taken no steps at all to ensure the safety of that data.

Principle 44 (Work defensively) Expect the worst, do your best, preferably in advance of a problem.

Corollary 25 (Redundancy) Reliability is often safeguarded by redundancy, or backup services running in parallel, ready to take over at a moments notice

Principle 44 (Network security) Extremely sensitive data should not be placed on a computer which is attached in any way to a public network.

Special people should look after it, I doubt they just let the things work out somehow and now, when there is a danger, they decide to bring in the sysadmins to set up backups and so on.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Basically, anyone wanting an abortion is required to have an invasive ultrasound. Anonymous, being Pro-Choice, are quite upset about this.

And here I thought the point of Ultrasound was to avoid having to introduce anything "invasive" into a person's body.
Shows what I know..

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Basically, anyone wanting an abortion is required to have an invasive ultrasound. Anonymous, being Pro-Choice, are quite upset about this.

And here I thought the point of Ultrasound was to avoid having to introduce anything "invasive" into a person's body.
Shows what I know..

Yeah, how dare women have a say on what they do with their reproductive organs. It's an outrage!

[sub]If you have to be told that's sarcasm, I am officially insulted by your view of me.[/sub]

 

[Atmos Duality]

Yeah, how dare women have a say on what they do with their reproductive organs. It's an outrage!

[sub]If you have to be told that's sarcasm, I am officially insulted by your view of me.[/sub]

Heh. Well, I could throw the Gauntlet down for irony's sake, but I don't think it would have the necessary clout.

Oh look, three Captchas with unintelligible characters. This will certain stop the bots from posting.
In fact, it's so effective, it may keep anyone from posting!

 

[Akio91]

Anonymous, at it's core, is better for the internet than people believe.

I disagree completely. How can a group of people who only person is to try and force people to agree with then or have their websites 404'ed be a good thing. It's like an internet protection racket. I mean look at it. What have the Greeks done to deserve 1 of their websites attacked. If they have attacked a German website i might be less annoyed.

The EU is doing a lot to keep the internet free (much to America's dislike) and thats still not good enough for ill-informed children that make up Anon

I'm pretty sure that you have no clue what you're talking about. I have yet to see any proof that this is Anonymous, and at this point, all you guys are doing is slinging shit. If it really were Anonymous, they'd have a good reason to do it and would take credit for it.

Oh gee an Anon Fanboy. They engage in illegal acts like hacking and relay on a modern society that rather pirate then buy and think that breaking the law is cool. I do what I'm talking about becasue i live in the grown-up world where you only get what you put in.

Anon on criminals and sooner or later will end up in various prisions around the world.... where they belong

Reading that post just made my eyes bleed.

 

[Aeshi]

Anonymous, at it's core, is better for the internet than people believe.

I disagree completely. How can a group of people who only person is to try and force people to agree with then or have their websites 404'ed be a good thing. It's like an internet protection racket. I mean look at it. What have the Greeks done to deserve 1 of their websites attacked. If they have attacked a German website i might be less annoyed.

The EU is doing a lot to keep the internet free (much to America's dislike) and thats still not good enough for ill-informed children that make up Anon

I'm pretty sure that you have no clue what you're talking about. I have yet to see any proof that this is Anonymous, and at this point, all you guys are doing is slinging shit. If it really were Anonymous, they'd have a good reason to do it and would take credit for it.

Their motto/creed is "anyone who claims to be Anonymous is Anonymous" and our hacking friends are doing just that as far as I can see.

But by all means, feel free to claim that this is that one splinter group who does every bad anonymous thing that is an exception to said motto/creed.

 

[esperandote]

On the other hand they could make multiple backups on off line servers of the revenue debts information but that's just one group of information Anon could target. Then they would need to make multiple off-line backups of everything, wich in the end could be impossible too.

I am pretty sure that redundant backups are the standard in all situations where you really need backups. At least if you have good admins to look after the data. It sounds as if you believe that the government that handles extremely important data has taken no steps at all to ensure the safety of that data.

Principle 44 (Work defensively) Expect the worst, do your best, preferably in advance of a problem.

Corollary 25 (Redundancy) Reliability is often safeguarded by redundancy, or backup services running in parallel, ready to take over at a moments notice

Principle 44 (Network security) Extremely sensitive data should not be placed on a computer which is attached in any way to a public network.

Special people should look after it, I doubt they just let the things work out somehow and now, when there is a danger, they decide to bring in the sysadmins to set up backups and so on.

If that's the case then Anonymous threats hold no weight at all other than the hazzle of restoring backups.

 

[GeneralFungi]

DO WHAT WE WANT OR WE WILL TAKE DOWN SOME RANDOM GOVERNMENT WEBSITE THAT PROBABLY NOONE VISITS ANYWAY *evil laugh*. No, seriously, does anyone else think this is ridiculous?

I'm pretty sure taking down that particular web site it just to grab the governments attention.

I disagree completely. How can a group of people who only person is to try and force people to agree with then or have their websites 404'ed be a good thing. It's like an internet protection racket. I mean look at it. What have the Greeks done to deserve 1 of their websites attacked. If they have attacked a German website i might be less annoyed.

The EU is doing a lot to keep the internet free (much to America's dislike) and thats still not good enough for ill-informed children that make up Anon

While I'm not necessarily trying to legitimize Anon's actions (though I don't completely disagree with them), if you don't think that Greece's government didn't do ANYTHING to deserve having their web site taken down, then you haven't been paying very close attention to what is going on over there. The government is rapidly loosing funding, and is dead set on taking away it's citizen's rights and sucking up all of their funds, effectively dragging every citizen of Greece down with them.

There is much more they have done to FUCK everyone living there over, but you're probably better off reading it from a real source.

What has Germany done to deserve having their site 404'd?

 

[cora mcstrap]

DO WHAT WE WANT OR WE WILL TAKE DOWN SOME RANDOM GOVERNMENT WEBSITE THAT PROBABLY NOONE VISITS ANYWAY *evil laugh*. No, seriously, does anyone else think this is ridiculous?

I'm pretty sure taking down that particular web site it just to grab the governments attention.

I disagree completely. How can a group of people who only person is to try and force people to agree with then or have their websites 404'ed be a good thing. It's like an internet protection racket. I mean look at it. What have the Greeks done to deserve 1 of their websites attacked. If they have attacked a German website i might be less annoyed.

The EU is doing a lot to keep the internet free (much to America's dislike) and thats still not good enough for ill-informed children that make up Anon

While I'm not necessarily trying to legitimize Anon's actions (though I don't completely disagree with them), if you don't think that Greece's government didn't do ANYTHING to deserve having their web site taken down, then you haven't been paying very close attention to what is going on over there. The government is rapidly loosing funding, and is dead set on taking away it's citizen's rights and sucking up all of their funds, effectively dragging every citizen of Greece down with them.

There is much more they have done to FUCK everyone living there over, but you're probably better off reading it from a real source.

What has Germany done to deserve having their site 404'd?

Shows how little attention you have been paying. Germany/ECB (who take their marching orders from Angela Merkel) is consistently changing the rules regarding what Greece has to do to obtain their bailout. The measures Greece are being forced to implement are coming straight from Angela Merkel's desk. The Greek Government are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Let's not forget that she tried out right to force Portugal in to the same place as Greece but got out maneuvered when they went direct to the IMF

 

[DoPo]

If that's the case then Anonymous threats hold no weight at all other than the hazzle of restoring backups.

Well, what they could do is target some computers and DDoS them constantly or something. Not irreparable damage (unless the machine dies from the load) but the downtime would be the actual benefit from the attack. Downtime is bad.

There are actually other things they can do...but few of them are about sabotage. I imagine Anon could just out the dirty secrets of the government and stir up a scandal. But that would more the fault of the government having dirty secrets rather than insufficient security.

 

[Akio91]

Anonymous, at it's core, is better for the internet than people believe.

I disagree completely. How can a group of people who only person is to try and force people to agree with then or have their websites 404'ed be a good thing. It's like an internet protection racket. I mean look at it. What have the Greeks done to deserve 1 of their websites attacked. If they have attacked a German website i might be less annoyed.

The EU is doing a lot to keep the internet free (much to America's dislike) and thats still not good enough for ill-informed children that make up Anon

I'm pretty sure that you have no clue what you're talking about. I have yet to see any proof that this is Anonymous, and at this point, all you guys are doing is slinging shit. If it really were Anonymous, they'd have a good reason to do it and would take credit for it.

Their motto/creed is "anyone who claims to be Anonymous is Anonymous" and our hacking friends are doing just that as far as I can see.

But by all means, feel free to claim that this is that one splinter group who does every bad anonymous thing that is an exception to said motto/creed.

That's not their fucking motto. That's NEVER been their motto. That's the sensationalist media making it okay to blame every fucking problem the internet has on a group of people on the internet who don't mean harm most of the time.

Yes, iMad.

 

[Keava]

You know it's usually easy to find out why they do anything. Just Google it...

Thursday, 23 February 2012
#Anonymous Attacks Greek Ministry of Justice Website
Following the arrest of three young Anonymous hackers in Greece, the collective has attacked again the website of the Ministry of Justice, defacing its homepage.
"The Republic in Greece has died. He died while a government that has not been elected by the people. And for this reason that the time for discussion came and went. Not negotiating anything with any of those who murdered it. You can hunt as you like, you can even capture some of us, in your attempt to silence us. But for every one that will capture 3 others will spring up. There are 5 or 10 or 100."

See? Has nothing to do with economical reasons. Simple act of revenge. Nothing to see here.

 

[dobahci]

The philosophy of Anonymous seems to be that there is no social, political, or economic issue, no matter how complex, which cannot be solved by DDoSing websites.

Well, at least they're trying. It's almost cute.