Another good reason why Bethesda doesn't have any right to the word Scrolls

[Truehare]

By the same logic being applied in this whole affair, I'm prohibited to write a novel in a classic fantasy setting called "The Mystical Lord of Death and Sorrow", because that is fantasy with "lord" in the title, even though no rings appear in the story... If that doesn't sound ridiculous to you, I can't say anything else.

No, you could write the Novel. The TM for LotR is for the exact wording, and how it is presented (the style of hoe Lord of the Rings is spelled, basically the font)

Now, you can have Elves (but not the Tolkien created elven language) dwarves, humans, half elfs, mithral, halflings, gnomes, wraiths, wryms, giant spiders.. etc, these things are all public domain. The Only TM's and C's are specific locations, and names, and setting.

Now you might have a problem writing a Fantasy based novel just entitled "Rings", but you would be walking a fine line depending on the content of your story. But a book with the title you gave, no one could say anything about. (until the content was examined)

When talking about fantasy, most of the generics in the genre are public domain, and can be used by anyone for anything. Only specifics are C and TM.

But the Tolkien Family doesnt have right to the individual words, unless the content of the book or movie has parallels to what they have the rights to. You could write a novel called The Ring or Power, as long as none of the content drew any parallels to existing rights.

I am assuming Majong wants a blanket TM on the word Scrolls. Since NO ACTUAL FACTS have been released to the public, just the whiney bitching of D-Bag on his twitter account. We need to be able to see the TM application, and see the arguement that Zenimax is having.

I could be completely wrong. But without any REAL facts from both sides yet, who knows. It could very well be Zenimax lawyers getting bored or trying for a quick cash grab. Or it could be something more sinister on the side of Notch, or something idiotic, or an honest mistake or whatever. But until we get some real facts,everyone is speculating..Even Me! And there really is no need for it.

Now the TM you described for LotR is a sensible one. It doesn't use the same logic I was talking about. We are in fact agreeing with each other here, as far as I can see, because I said that if we applied the same logic used in this case to The Lord of the Rings, I couldn't write that novel, yaddayadda... But that is not the case, because the TM for Lord actually makes sense, as you described, whereas the one being discussed here doesn't (maybe from a legal point of view it does, but certainly not from the moral one). That was exactly the point I was trying to make. Guess I should have been a little clearer.

I also agree with you that we are all speculating here, but it seems to me that Mojang really tried to do what you say (namely, get a blanket TM on the word Scrolls). And that was a jerk move alright. But it also seems that they ended up not doing that, so that makes their sin less grave in my book.

Bethesda, on the other hand, seems to have a big problem with a game set in a fantasy world (like The Elder Scrolls, alright, but also like Gothic, some of the Final Fantasies, Warcraft, etc... you catch my drift) that is called Scrolls. Not Ancient Scrolls or something like that, which would be suspicious, but just Scrolls. If they hadn't raised all that racket, I'm sure most people wouldn't even associate the two games based on that name alone. Hell, beside the fantasy setting, they have nothing at all in common, what with one being a triple-A open-ended action-RPG and the other a small indie card game.

So yes, the whole problem seems to be in -- or at least stem from -- the name. And I am utterly unable to accept that anyone can have the rights to a single word, be they Mojang or Bethesda, no matter what other complications might arise.

Again, you are right, this is all speculation, but, unless we take rash action based on it, speculting never harmed anyone. I'm with Mojang in this one, and I should make it clear I'm not even a fan of theirs. I never even played Minecraft past the free alpha, and it doesn't sound that interesting to me even with all the hype. On the other hand, I've been losing sleep over Fallout New Vegas lately, I just love the game that much. So I know my opinion is not biased or anything. It just feels right to me.

 

[tstek]

SNIP

Actually, I don't Scroll's trademark has gone through completely yet. Right by Owner, it says (APPLICANT). On the Elder Scrolls' one, it says (REGISTRANT). It can take forever to get a trademark, but as long as it's pending, no one else can use it.

What all of this is, is Bethesda trying to keep what it owns and Notch either having absolutely no idea about US Trademark laws, a horrible lawyer, or just wanting to get a lot of publicity. Notch's blanket trademark won't even go through because it's just too broad.

Huh, good point, I didn't notice that.
When (if) Mojang's trademark goes through it would work retroactively back to the point where they applied, so in that case you're right no one else can currently use it (for the uses Mojang specified) but there's nothing to actually stop someone from violating a pending trademark (until it goes through, so if you're sure it will fail, I guess it's cool to also make a card based fantasy videogame with the same name...obviously not "scrolls" though, I hear bethsda sues over that kind of thing).

But even so, it (at the moment) is up to the U.S. Patent and Trademark office to decide whether or not Mojang's claim to the trademark of scrolls is valid. If they decide before Mojang and Bethesda actually get to court, the case may be pretty much instantly resolved. However, if the case comes first, that will probably decide for the patent/trademark office.

 

[tstek]

Now the TM you described for LotR is a sensible one. It doesn't use the same logic I was talking about. We are in fact agreeing with each other here, as far as I can see, because I said that if we applied the same logic used in this case to The Lord of the Rings, I couldn't write that novel, yaddayadda... But that is not the case, because the TM for Lord actually makes sense, as you described, whereas the one being discussed here doesn't (maybe from a legal point of view it does, but certainly not from the moral one). That was exactly the point I was trying to make. Guess I should have been a little clearer.

I also agree with you that we are all speculating here, but it seems to me that Mojang really tried to do what you say (namely, get a blanket TM on the word Scrolls). And that was a jerk move alright. But it also seems that they ended up not doing that, so that makes their sin less grave in my book.

Bethesda, on the other hand, seems to have a big problem with a game set in a fantasy world (like The Elder Scrolls, alright, but also like Gothic, some of the Final Fantasies, Warcraft, etc... you catch my drift) that is called Scrolls. Not Ancient Scrolls or something like that, which would be suspicious, but just Scrolls. If they hadn't raised all that racket, I'm sure most people wouldn't even associate the two games based on that name alone. Hell, beside the fantasy setting, they have nothing at all in common, what with one being a triple-A open-ended action-RPG and the other a small indie card game.

So yes, the whole problem seems to be in -- or at least stem from -- the name. And I am utterly unable to accept that anyone can have the rights to a single word, be they Mojang or Bethesda, no matter what other complications might arise.

Again, you are right, this is all speculation, but, unless we take rash action based on it, speculting never harmed anyone. I'm with Mojang in this one, and I should make it clear I'm not even a fan of theirs. I never even played Minecraft past the free alpha, and it doesn't sound that interesting to me even with all the hype. On the other hand, I've been losing sleep over Fallout New Vegas lately, I just love the game that much. So I know my opinion is not biased or anything. It just feels right to me.

Actually, there are tons of trademarks on single words, for example a t-shirt company owns the rights for the word "Scrolls" with respect to "On-line retail store services featuring clothing." (and I checked this time, it says registrant, not applicant, so they do own the trademark).
For a more recognizable example, the Fender Musical Instruments Corporation owns the rights to "Fender" for a whole litany of apparel, (and probably instruments as well, though I couldn't find that trademark, strangely found it. also found one for games...) regardless of the fact that a fender is "A thing used to keep something off or prevent a collision, in particular the mudguard or area around the wheel well of a vehicle." (and therefore a common, single word).

 

[Zaik]

I love how a lot of people think Bethesda are sueing Mojang for no other reason than greed.

If you saw what Notch wanted to cover with his copyright of 'Scrolls', then people would probably think differently.

Notch(claimed, at least) that he offered to drop the trademark or add to the title, and that the offer was refused.

I assume the reason that their copyright was so detailed was because the lawyer got a little overzealous as well, but again, no way to know for sure.

Whenever I hear someone talking about an Elder Scrolls game they tend to call the game Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. I don't get why they're so protective of a word that they barely use.

Barely Use? The Elder Scrolls is the title given before any of the others. The "Scrolls" are mentioned in each of the games, in the form of conversation and the books in the games. Just because people forgo the Elder Scrolls before mentioning which game, means nothing.

New Hope, Empire, Jedi, Menace, Clones, Sith is how these movies are referred to when people are talking about them. That doesnt mean that the title STAR WARS, shouldnt be defended as a trademark as well.

Again, all the arm chair lawyers need to wait until REAL details of the lawsuit are actually made available to the public, and first arguments are heard. There is no need for all the speculation and assumptions, that logically just doesnt hold up. Much like your argument.

PS. Before Oblivion, Morrowind was referred to as Elder Scrolls, because it was the only one at the time. Just as "A New Hope" was simply called Star Wars before Empire.

You changed too much there. It would be more like if a game or movie was called "Star" or "Wars", and Lucas opted to sue over it. Seems a little more silly now, doesn't it?

 

[ThatOneChick]

SNIP

Actually, I don't Scroll's trademark has gone through completely yet. Right by Owner, it says (APPLICANT). On the Elder Scrolls' one, it says (REGISTRANT). It can take forever to get a trademark, but as long as it's pending, no one else can use it.

What all of this is, is Bethesda trying to keep what it owns and Notch either having absolutely no idea about US Trademark laws, a horrible lawyer, or just wanting to get a lot of publicity. Notch's blanket trademark won't even go through because it's just too broad.

Huh, good point, I didn't notice that.
When (if) Mojang's trademark goes through it would work retroactively back to the point where they applied, so in that case you're right no one else can currently use it (for the uses Mojang specified) but there's nothing to actually stop someone from violating a pending trademark (until it goes through, so if you're sure it will fail, I guess it's cool to also make a card based fantasy videogame with the same name...obviously not "scrolls" though, I hear bethsda sues over that kind of thing).

No, I couldn't make a card based fantasy game (that's completely different so I don't violate copyright laws) with the same title as Mojang's because of their pending trademark. If it failed because of it being too broad (not even counting the whole TES thing), I think they'd have a few days to refile. If they didn't then I could try to trademark mine. If I'd made it before they filed, but didn't trademark it, then I'd still be SOL.

But even so, it (at the moment) is up to the U.S. Patent and Trademark office to decide whether or not Mojang's claim to the trademark of scrolls is valid. If they decide before Mojang and Bethesda actually get to court, the case may be pretty much instantly resolved. However, if the case comes first, that will probably decide for the patent/trademark office.

Not necessarily. Unless for some strange reason the USTPO does accept the blanket trademark (which, if so, I'm going to go trademark a bunch of random words so I can sue people who want to use them) I'm pretty sure Bethesda and Mojang are going to court not matter what, unless Mojang changes the name. You don't have to trademark something to use it as a title. Even if Mojang drops their trademark application, they still want to use the name. That still violates Bethesda's current use of it.

 

[chstens]

I was going to edit it "don't trust me on this, because I know nothing of copyright laws and just heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy sorta"

 

[Truehare]

So yes, the whole problem seems to be in -- or at least stem from -- the name. And I am utterly unable to accept that anyone can have the rights to a single word, be they Mojang or Bethesda, no matter what other complications might arise.

Actually, there are tons of trademarks on single words, for example a t-shirt company owns the rights for the word "Scrolls" with respect to "On-line retail store services featuring clothing." (and I checked this time, it says registrant, not applicant, so they do own the trademark).
For a more recognizable example, the Fender Musical Instruments Corporation owns the rights to "Fender" for a whole litany of apparel, (and probably instruments as well, though I couldn't find that trademark, strangely found it. also found one for games...) regardless of the fact that a fender is "A thing used to keep something off or prevent a collision, in particular the mudguard or area around the wheel well of a vehicle." (and therefore a common, single word).

Well, when we talk about product brands (as opposed to book/movie/videogame titles), I guess I can accept that. That's because, when you make a guitar, it's a guitar, like any other brand (quality issues aside). But stories are very different from each other, so there are much more significant aspects to diferentiate one from the other than with simple, non-artistic products.

I don't know if I am making myself clear here (it's late and I had a hearty talk with my bong some minutes ago), but when you make a t-shirt or a guitar, the name makes a huge difference when it's time for your product to be recognized. Whereas with artistic/entertainment productions like games, it's much more important to know the specifics of the story, the game mechanics, etc.

Of course, in both cases, I'm not arguing about the legality of the issue, but about the morality. I can see where a company like Fender is going when they try to protect their brand, especially because said brand is entirely made up of that one word. But when someone tries to make a fuss about someone else using a single word from a multi-word title ("Scrolls" from "The Elder Scrolls"), that doesn't feel the same.

And for that matter, neither does Mojang trying to trademark "Scrolls" like they apparently did in the first place. But as far as I know, they ended up not doing that (hell, they even offered to drop the name altogether), so they avoided my "righteous wrath"...

Okay, even I am having a hard time trying to understand my own thoughts right now. Hope you have more luck when you read this post...

In short: securing your product's name with a trademark when said name consists of a single word (especially when it's a name, not a title): good. Trying to sue someone for giving their work a title consisting of a single word that is PART of your work's multi-word title: bad. IMO, anyway. And it should be said I'm a writer myself (with a grand total of three short stories published, but still...), so I consider works of fiction to be very different from t-shirts and guitars.

 

[ThatOneChick]

Well, when we talk about product brands (as opposed to book/movie/videogame titles), I guess I can accept that. That's because, when you make a guitar, it's a guitar, like any other brand (quality issues aside). But stories are very different from each other, so there are much more significant aspects to diferentiate one from the other than with simple, non-artistic products.

I don't know if I am making myself clear here (it's late and I had a hearty talk with my bong some minutes ago), but when you make a t-shirt or a guitar, the name makes a huge difference when it's time for your product to be recognized. Whereas with artistic/entertainment productions like games, it's much more important to know the specifics of the story, the game mechanics, etc.

Of course, in both cases, I'm not arguing about the legality of the issue, but about the morality. I can see where a company like Fender is going when they try to protect their brand, especially because said brand is entirely made up of that one word. But when someone tries to make a fuss about someone else using a single word from a multi-word title ("Scrolls" from "The Elder Scrolls"), that doesn't feel the same.

And for that matter, neither does Mojang trying to trademark "Scrolls" like they apparently did in the first place. But as far as I know, they ended up not doing that (hell, they even offered to drop the name altogether), so they avoided my "righteous wrath"...

Okay, even I am having a hard time trying to understand my own thoughts right now. Hope you have more luck when you read this post...

In short: securing your product's name with a trademark when said name consists of a single word (especially when it's a name, not a title): good. Trying to sue someone for giving their work a title consisting of a single word that is PART of your work's multi-word title: bad. IMO, anyway. And it should be said I'm a writer myself (with a grand total of three short stories published, but still...), so I consider works of fiction to be very different from t-shirts and guitars.

But a book series (like Harry Potter), movie series (like PotC), and video game series (like TES) are brands. That title is how you know it's apart of a series like how seeing Fender on a guitar lets you know it's a Fender brand guitar. TES may have several different games to them, but they're not games that are completely different. You hear TES and you think 'Oh yeah, it's those fantasy games with the Argonians and Kahjiits and whatever!' not 'Oh yeah I think one of TES games was fantasy and one was sci-fi and they had nothing to do with each other what-so-ever.'

If The Elder Scrolls was instead trademarked as The Super Awesome Fantasy World Series That Have Elder Scrolls Sometimes Mentioned, then wanting to use the name Scrolls probably wouldn't be as big of a deal. Sadly legality and morality don't mix in this case. The legality is if Bethesda doesn't fight for their name, they could lose it.

And you're getting copyright and trademark mixed up. Those published stories of yours are copyrighted to you (unless you've given or sold the rights to someone) without you having to do anything (though if you don't register the copyright and someone steals it, you can't sue for as much). The games themselves are copyrighted. The titles can be trademarked, but trademarks aren't automatic and it's first come, first serve or wait until whoever owns the trademark either gives it up or doesn't renew it(which they have to every 6-10 years).

 

[samsonguy920]

I love how a lot of people think Bethesda are sueing Mojang for no other reason than greed.

If you saw what Notch wanted to cover with his copyright of 'Scrolls', then people would probably think differently.

Why shouldn't Notch have the right to be able to do with Scrolls as he wants? If he didn't trademark it for other media, he wouldn't be able to use it for other media if the game was a success. Don't let Russ Pitts' ignorance and hostility of what is going on affect your judgement to look at all the sides. This is not a case of Tim Langdell disease. Bethesda is obligated to take action to protect its trademark, yes. But Mojang has made every gesture to create a solution to this without taking this to court. Bethesda is taking this to court. Bethesda is wasting taxpayer dollars(granted Swedish dollars in this case) to push something that is insubstantial and they don't have much of a leg to stand on. The whole case lacks logic, and with Bethesda refusing to settle outside of court, it ties Mojang's hands. Even if they up and say they are just going to change the name it won't stop the matter, now.

 

[tstek]

No, I couldn't make a card based fantasy game (that's completely different so I don't violate copyright laws) with the same title as Mojang's because of their pending trademark. If it failed because of it being too broad (not even counting the whole TES thing), I think they'd have a few days to refile. If they didn't then I could try to trademark mine. If I'd made it before they filed, but didn't trademark it, then I'd still be SOL.

I only meant if they failed to get the trademark, to illustrate the point that a pending trademark offers no legal protection. In reality, doing what I said there would be a terrible idea. Not to mention how small the chance is that you would be able to trademark it just before they did (and I forgot to mention the part there where you have to send in a application to trademark the name while their's is being considered, and then rejected, in order to pull that off. Which would take a ridiculous amount of luck).

Not necessarily. Unless for some strange reason the USTPO does accept the blanket trademark (which, if so, I'm going to go trademark a bunch of random words so I can sue people who want to use them) I'm pretty sure Bethesda and Mojang are going to court no matter what, unless Mojang changes the name. You don't have to trademark something to use it as a title. Even if Mojang drops their trademark application, they still want to use the name. That still violates Bethesda's current use of it.

Oh, right, I forgot they might also decide to reject the trademark on the grounds that, in order to trademark a game's name they wanted the rights to an educational radio broadcast of the same name, among dozens of other things (that was just the most ridiculous example I could come up with while starting at that list for 5 seconds). You're right on that account.
But remember: the courts (or possibly the USTPO, they could still decide to reject the trademark on the grounds that it violates Bethesda's, instead of because it is such a blanket, and doing so would make more sense - and save them work, as rejecting it based on it's blanket status would mean they just have to look at the application again when it is re-filed) - anyway - The courts will decide whether or not Mojang's use of Scrolls as a game title violates Bethesda's current trademark - not us.

 

[ThatOneChick]

SNIP

Yeah, I was just saying even without the whole TES thing it'd still be rejected and I'm pretty sure Minecraft is going to rejected too unless they're really thinking of releasing Minecraft brand defibrillators...

Word Mark MINECRAFT
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Scientific, nautical, surveying, photographic, cinematographic, optical, weighing, measuring, signalling, checking (supervision), life-saving and teaching apparatus and instruments; Apparatus and instruments for conducting, switching, transforming, accumulating, regulating or controlling electricity; Apparatus for recording, transmission or reproduction of sound or images; Magnetic data carriers, recording discs; Automatic vending machines and mechanisms for coin-operated apparatus; Cash registers, calculating machines, data processing equipment and computers; Fire-extinguishing apparatus

IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: Clothing, footwear, headgear

IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Games and playthings; Gymnastic and sporting articles not included in other classes; Decorations for Christmas trees

IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Education; Providing of training; Entertainment; Sporting and cultural activities

The more I look at this, the more I think it's just Notch and his lawyers having no clue about US trademark laws...

 

[tstek]

SNIP

Yeah, I was just saying even without the whole TES thing it'd still be rejected and I'm pretty sure Minecraft is going to rejected too unless they're really thinking of releasing Minecraft brand defibrillators...

Word Mark MINECRAFT
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Scientific, nautical, surveying, photographic, cinematographic, optical, weighing, measuring, signalling, checking (supervision), life-saving and teaching apparatus and instruments; Apparatus and instruments for conducting, switching, transforming, accumulating, regulating or controlling electricity; Apparatus for recording, transmission or reproduction of sound or images; Magnetic data carriers, recording discs; Automatic vending machines and mechanisms for coin-operated apparatus; Cash registers, calculating machines, data processing equipment and computers; Fire-extinguishing apparatus

IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: Clothing, footwear, headgear

IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Games and playthings; Gymnastic and sporting articles not included in other classes; Decorations for Christmas trees

IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Education; Providing of training; Entertainment; Sporting and cultural activities

The more I look at this, the more I think it's just Notch and his lawyers having no clue about US trademark laws...

Yeah, I was thinking about saying something about that too, but I didn't want to double post just for that.
I mean, I was gunna go from the minecraft branded nautical instruments, cash registers, and fire-extinguishers angle, but defibrillators are equally silly...

And I agree entirely, I don't know what Mojang's lawyers specialize in, but it certainly is not trademark law. I mean, both trademarks are kind of blanket in their own right, but the funny thing is they look nothing like each other. And the Minecraft one hardly even mentions computer games, the closest they get is "Games and playthings" and "Entertainment".

 

[Rhaff]

No, they are trying to set a legal precedent, and to show that you do not mess with their IP in anyway whatsoever.
Notch has offered to change the name completely, which would be fine in theory, since most people wouldn't expect him to be able fight the suit in the long run. But Bethesda has to set a legal precedent, so that a big developer with the capital to fight a long suit, won't consider infringing on their IP in any way.

 

[tstek]

No, they are trying to set a legal precedent, and to show that you do not mess with their IP in anyway whatsoever.
Notch has offered to change the name completely, which would be fine in theory, since most people wouldn't expect him to be able fight the suit in the long run. But Bethesda has to set a legal precedent, so that a big developer with the capital to fight a long suit, won't consider infringing on their IP in any way.

Actually, that's the thing, Notch didn't offer to change the name completely, or at least that's not what he said on the blog (I don't know if what he actually does aligns with what he said).
Had he decided to change the name completely (as in, the word "scrolls" would be in no way a part of the title), Bethesda could not sue Mojang. They wouldn't be infringing upon anything.
Other than that, you are right - they are suing to make sure they can maintain their trademark, as many others have already stated in this thread.

 

[Eventidal]

I love how a lot of people think Bethesda are sueing Mojang for no other reason than greed.

If you saw what Notch wanted to cover with his copyright of 'Scrolls', then people would probably think differently.

Yeah, and if people on Bethesda's side knew that Notch not only tried to reason with them, saying he would change Scrolls to add a subtitle to it OR to drop the trademark on Scrolls entirely, and if they knew that Bethesda STILL chose to sue despite the suggestions, they would realize there's a lot more grey area to this argument than EITHER side is willing to admit to.

Notch initiated the trademark thing with Minecraft first, then decided it would be good to cover his other game while he's at it. He wants to protect his games, and legally, protect his ass. Entirely reasonable, but he went overboard with the coverage. Bethesda wants to protect their series' name as well, but they've proven that they're not afraid Notch is going to sue them for using Scrolls in their game titles, but rather that they think Scrolls will get confused with TES, or that Scrolls will somehow harm their crazy multi-million sales on Skyrim or something.

No, it's all about protecting the trademark the already have. Notch says he's willing to drop the trademark but he still wants to use the name Scrolls. With or without a subtitle, that still violates Bethesda's trademark.

Uh... this is exactly like the whole Edge business.

Only in that case, the company involved in the lawsuits was called Edge Games, and referred to as such. In this case, Bethesda somehow thinks their trademark on The Elder Scrolls entitles them to any and all uses of the word Scrolls elsewhere in the industry. The games are called Oblivion and Skyrim, etc most of the time so it's really not a problem, even if there IS some legal ground to stand on there.

Notch should drop the trademark (and tone down the Minecraft one a bit) and Bethesda should let Scrolls be Scrolls. There shouldn't be a problem here, but Bethesda's sure as hell making one.

 

[ThatOneChick]

Yeah, I was thinking about saying something about that too, but I didn't want to double post just for that.
I mean, I was gunna go from the minecraft branded nautical instruments, cash registers, and fire-extinguishers angle, but defibrillators are equally silly...

And I agree entirely, I don't know what Mojang's lawyers specialize in, but it certainly is not trademark law. I mean, both trademarks are kind of blanket in their own right, but the funny thing is they look nothing like each other. And the Minecraft one hardly even mentions computer games, the closest they get is "Games and playthings" and "Entertainment".

It's like after they filed the Minecraft one, they suddenly realized there's a whole different list for video games. Who knows, but Mojang really does need better lawyers.

SNIP

Well, I really don't know a whole lot about the Edge business, but wasn't it about a game COMPANY with Edge in their name suing GAMES or a MAGAZINE with Edge in their names?

If that's correct, then no, it's not like this. This is about a FANTASY GAME series that is trademarked as The Elder Scrolls suing because another company really wants to use Scrolls for their FANTASY GAME.

It doesn't matter if they're called Oblivion or Skyrim 'most of the time'. It still says The Elder Scrolls on the cover of the box.

If in the end, the courts say it doesn't infringe on anything then Bethesda still protected it's trademark. They get to keep using The Elder Scrolls on games they make and no one can suddenly make a The Eldest Scroll game.

Bethesda just wants to protect themselves. Is there really anything wrong with that?

 

[Rhaff]

No, they are trying to set a legal precedent, and to show that you do not mess with their IP in anyway whatsoever.
Notch has offered to change the name completely, which would be fine in theory, since most people wouldn't expect him to be able fight the suit in the long run. But Bethesda has to set a legal precedent, so that a big developer with the capital to fight a long suit, won't consider infringing on their IP in any way.

Actually, that's the thing, Notch didn't offer to change the name completely, or at least that's not what he said on the blog (I don't know if what he actually does aligns with what he said).
Had he decided to change the name completely (as in, the word "scrolls" would be in no way a part of the title), Bethesda could not sue Mojang. They wouldn't be infringing upon anything.
Other than that, you are right - they are suing to make sure they can maintain their trademark, as many others have already stated in this thread.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.316261-Mojang-Offered-Up-Scrolls-Trademark-Bethsoft-Said-No
If he offered to give up the trademark, then he would be forced by Bethesda to change the name completely, due to Bethesda doing to Mojang, what they are trying to avoid Mojang having the opportunity to do to them (if that sentence doesn't make sense, just let me know)
And since Notch offered to give up the trademark, he is technically saying that he is willing to change the name.

 

[irequirefood]

*facepalm*

I'm going to explain this one more time.

Bethesda haven't got a copyright on the word 'Scrolls' in all its uses.

They have a copyright on the idea of a game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

Mojang are making a card game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

See where I'm going with this?

I've been reading through this whole thread, and by now it seems you're sick of being ignored... I have seen the points you've been making, and I wholeheartedly agree. There's more to it than just Mojang wanting the word 'Scrolls' for their game.

 

[ThatOneChick]

No, they are trying to set a legal precedent, and to show that you do not mess with their IP in anyway whatsoever.
Notch has offered to change the name completely, which would be fine in theory, since most people wouldn't expect him to be able fight the suit in the long run. But Bethesda has to set a legal precedent, so that a big developer with the capital to fight a long suit, won't consider infringing on their IP in any way.

Actually, that's the thing, Notch didn't offer to change the name completely, or at least that's not what he said on the blog (I don't know if what he actually does aligns with what he said).
Had he decided to change the name completely (as in, the word "scrolls" would be in no way a part of the title), Bethesda could not sue Mojang. They wouldn't be infringing upon anything.
Other than that, you are right - they are suing to make sure they can maintain their trademark, as many others have already stated in this thread.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.316261-Mojang-Offered-Up-Scrolls-Trademark-Bethsoft-Said-No
If he offered to give up the trademark, then he would be forced by Bethesda to change the name completely, due to Bethesda doing to Mojang, what they are trying to avoid Mojang having the opportunity to do to them (if that sentence doesn't make sense, just let me know)
And since Notch offered to give up the trademark, he is technically saying that he is willing to change the name.

If he said he was going to give up the name then he would have said just that. Instead he said he wouldn't trademark the name, but he still wants to use it and he's even willing to put a subtitle on it.

The very, very first thing Bethesda did was send a cease and desist. Mojang did not cease and desist. Mojang is not willing to change the name unless they're ordered to by the court.

 

[Rhaff]

No, they are trying to set a legal precedent, and to show that you do not mess with their IP in anyway whatsoever.
Notch has offered to change the name completely, which would be fine in theory, since most people wouldn't expect him to be able fight the suit in the long run. But Bethesda has to set a legal precedent, so that a big developer with the capital to fight a long suit, won't consider infringing on their IP in any way.

Actually, that's the thing, Notch didn't offer to change the name completely, or at least that's not what he said on the blog (I don't know if what he actually does aligns with what he said).
Had he decided to change the name completely (as in, the word "scrolls" would be in no way a part of the title), Bethesda could not sue Mojang. They wouldn't be infringing upon anything.
Other than that, you are right - they are suing to make sure they can maintain their trademark, as many others have already stated in this thread.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.316261-Mojang-Offered-Up-Scrolls-Trademark-Bethsoft-Said-No
If he offered to give up the trademark, then he would be forced by Bethesda to change the name completely, due to Bethesda doing to Mojang, what they are trying to avoid Mojang having the opportunity to do to them (if that sentence doesn't make sense, just let me know)
And since Notch offered to give up the trademark, he is technically saying that he is willing to change the name.

If he said he was going to give up the name then he would have said just that. Instead he said he wouldn't trademark the name, but he still wants to use it and he's even willing to put a subtitle on it.

The very, very first thing Bethesda did was send a cease and desist. Mojang did not cease and desist. Mojang is not willing to change the name unless they're ordered to by the court.

Which they will be, if Bethesda gets the trademark.
But I do agree with those who say that both sides are being dicks about this. Bethesda should have taken them up on their offer to give up the trademark, gotten the trademark for them selves, and prevented them from using the name that way. Would have saved a lot of trouble for both sides, and allowed them to save face, instead of this ending in a huge pissing match in court.