Another good reason why Bethesda doesn't have any right to the word Scrolls

[generalvash]

Looks like someone didnt read enough posts. Perhaps reading the whole thread before commenting will save you time in the future.

Just shows how incredibly dumb your comment was, that it actually stopped me from continuing to read the thread. Don't try to pretend 'semantics' are all it was, every single person I've met that plays the Elder Scrolls games knows about Arena and Daggerfall (not sure what it is, perhaps seeing a number in the title makes people think there are others or something). Also, I'm touched that you care about how I spend my time.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Notch won't win, he has no chance of winning.

Why? Because Bethesda have not yet set a precedent of not trying to protect their copyright, that's why.

Ok, so it's just good business on Bethy's part, then? I add more thoughts to my old post that flesh out my views on this whole issue, but in a nutshell I don't like people being sued for oodles and oodles of greenbacks, no matter who it is, unless they've done something stupid and objectively really wrong. Is Bethesda just trying to get Notch to change the name, or are they trying to get money out of the settlement?

Bethesda aren't suing for money, they're simply actively showing that they are willing to go to court to protect their copyright.

 

[Ben Hussong]

[/quote]
http://howtonotsuckatgamedesign.com/?p=3327

Not that anyone is likely to. God knows, reacting randomly and stupidly is so much more visceral and fun than reading things.[/quote]
If that link weren't pretty obviously a butthurt bethesda fanboy, yes it'd be helpful.

 

[luke10123]

hold on, hold on. why don't we stop the fussing and fighting and just blame the whole mess on the recession like normal people?

 

[Bluntman1138]

So what your'e saying is, since STAR WARS is a franchise, I can't make a movie called "Wars" because that word is in STAR WARS and the movies are about "wars" also? They barely refer to the word "war" in the movies, but they are still about them, so any movie with "WAR" or "WARS" in the title are fucked?

No, you can make a movie called Wars. What comes into play is, WHAT IS THE MOVIE ABOUT?

Are you going to make a movie called Wars, and i be a Sci-fi movie about a Galactic War against an Empire of sorts? Or is it going to be about Ants vs Ant Eaters? Will it beabout several wars based on one single planet? Or will there be Starships and Starfighters as well.

And on that subject, in the past 25 years, how many Space Conflict movies have been made with the word Wars in it? THAT should be your first clue right there.

Again, THERE IS MORE TO ALL THIS THAN THE USE OF A WORD! People REALLY need to brush up on the simplest of TM and Copyright laws before making ignorant statements like you have.

 

[Uber Evil]

Notch won't win, he has no chance of winning.

Why? Because Bethesda have not yet set a precedent of not trying to protect their copyright, that's why.

Ok, so it's just good business on Bethy's part, then? I add more thoughts to my old post that flesh out my views on this whole issue, but in a nutshell I don't like people being sued for oodles and oodles of greenbacks, no matter who it is, unless they've done something stupid and objectively really wrong. Is Bethesda just trying to get Notch to change the name, or are they trying to get money out of the settlement?

Bethesda aren't suing for money, they're simply actively showing that they are willing to go to court to protect their copyright.

Ok. Notch should just concede then. Find a new title. He hasn't even released Scrolls, so changing the name wouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[Bluntman1138]

Also, as a quick note:

Lawsuits DO NOT have to be over money. Case in point, in 1998 i had to file a lawsuit AGAINST MY CAR, in the State of Oklahoma, in order to gain ownership of the vehicle after my mother moved out of the States, and lost the Title.

The Lawsuit was written like this:

Plantiff: Me
Defendant: 1992 Chevrolet Caprice

Had a civil court date and everything. Had to take off of work to go to the "trial". Lawsuits are more than one person suing somebody else for money.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

If that link weren't pretty obviously a butthurt bethesda fanboy, yes it'd be helpful.

As a butthurt Mojang fanboy, I can see why you'd assume that.

Isn't this fun? I guess we could just do this all day. After all, it's much easier to demonize other perspectives than actually try to think outside the tiny little box you're living in.

 

[Mogget128723]

This whole thing is just stupid. If it was illegal to copyright individual words like it bloody well should be, then we wouldn't be running into idiocy like this.

 

[Ben Hussong]

If that link weren't pretty obviously a butthurt bethesda fanboy, yes it'd be helpful.

As a butthurt Mojang fanboy, I can see why you'd assume that.

Isn't this fun? I guess we could just do this all day. After all, it's much easier to demonize other perspectives than actually try to think outside the tiny little box you're living in.

Yeah i apologize, i really was being a bit of a dick. My point * which i didn't really express beyond adhominems* was the article seemed a bit overly defense of Bethesda, and overly treating Mojang like idiots. I think to be reasonable i should wait untill the trials start, and we have acess to the offical lawyer statements. And for the record im not actually mad at bethesda, it's really just the way business works, sometimes people get sued. Elder scrolls is a great series i own morrowind and oblivion and have a ppreorder for Skyrim, i just think bethesda jumped the gun to lawsuit instead of sitting down at the table first.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Yeah i apologize, i really was being a bit of a dick. My point * which i didn't really express beyond ad0hominems* was the article seemed a bit overly defense of Bethesda, and overly treating Mojang like idiots. I think to be reasonable i should wait untill the trials start, and we have acess to the offical lawyer statements.

The article is indeed defensive of Bethesda and critical of Mojang. It makes a counterpoint to the articles/boycotts that are feverishly pro-Mojang and anti-Bethesda. I didn't intend to have people read that and turn into anti-Notch fanatics, simply to read it and get a sense that there might be more to the story than "Big company bullies indie darling over nonsense". My biggest...nay, my ONLY...issue with this whole fiasco is how many people seem to be flying off the handle with extremely strong opinions without having even the mildest comprehension of what copyright law entails, or even what the basic facts of the case are, beyond some yowling they've heard Notch do over Twitter. And I think that's pretty stupid.

 

[Duffy13]

I'm seeing a lot of confusion concerning the difference between copyright and trademark. Copyright is generally getting first dibs on the specifics of something. (In theory anyways) An examples of copyrighting would be the exact code that makes up one of the games in question. Thus anyone caught using an unauthorized copy would in theory be violating copyright. (Let's not get sidetracked by copyright arguments, let's stick on top concerning the current legal maneuvers involved.)

Trademarking is indication of a brand and is not the same as copyrighting. Realistically, trademarking a single world, Scrolls in this case, would have no effect on other trademarks containing said word. This was proven by the recent EDGE cases here in the U.S.

The reason the trademark is so broad is because no one else has done it yet for those other areas. To cover yourself legally it is general practice to file the trademark for everything you can. They are attempting to establish a brand and have no reason to limit themselves. If perchance they ever try to defend the brand in one of those strange expansion areas (say radio) they will most likely lose that portion of the trademark if they have no relevant product.

In my mind the current predicament comes down to two possible scenarios:

1. Bethesda is irrationally scared Mojang will gain the trademark and then try to illegally sue them for trademark infringement and win somehow. (I personally cannot fathom how the hell this makes any sense especially given precedence in the US, but I'm not sure what legal system this is all going down in so maybe there is some legit concern here.)

2. Bethesda had some plans to trademark the word Scrolls and use it themselves. Now the only way to do so would be to successfully block Mojang from gaining it through what boils down to proving they had undocumented prior ownership of said trademark. (Something you can do concerning trademarks.)

Option 2 seems the more likely scenario to me at this juncture.

*Disclaimer: I'm not going to pretend that legal decisions are not often different from what they "should" be. But to the extent of interpreting the laws fairly and without bias this post contains the conclusions I have personally reached.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

This whole thing is just stupid. If it was illegal to copyright individual words like it bloody well should be, then we wouldn't be running into idiocy like this.

*facepalm*

I'm going to explain this one more time.

Bethesda haven't got a copyright on the word 'Scrolls' in all its uses.

They have a copyright on the idea of a game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

Mojang are making a card game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

See where I'm going with this?

 

[Ben Hussong]

Yeah i apologize, i really was being a bit of a dick. My point * which i didn't really express beyond ad0hominems* was the article seemed a bit overly defense of Bethesda, and overly treating Mojang like idiots. I think to be reasonable i should wait untill the trials start, and we have acess to the offical lawyer statements.

The article is indeed defensive of Bethesda and critical of Mojang. It makes a counterpoint to the articles/boycotts that are feverishly pro-Mojang and anti-Bethesda. I didn't intend to have people read that and turn into anti-Notch fanatics, simply to read it and get a sense that there might be more to the story than "Big company bullies indie darling over nonsense". My biggest...nay, my ONLY...issue with this whole fiasco is how many people seem to be flying off the handle with extremely strong opinions without having even the mildest comprehension of what copyright law entails, or even what the basic facts of the case are, beyond some yowling they've heard Notch do over Twitter. And I think that's pretty stupid.

I agree with you on that, but the nature of the internet seems to create this sort of thing alot.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

From here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113450-Mojang-Offered-Up-Scrolls-Trademark-Bethsoft-Said-No] I'm now not sure why Bethy is still suing. They haven't trademarked Scrolls, and Notch won't, and the brand confusion thing seems stupid, so I am now confused.

But if someone else came along and wanted to do the same thing? If someone made a game maybe called The Elder Postcards or something, but then if Bethesda hadn't followed through with this, it would set a precedent. That, and copyright law kinda backs them up, as far as I understand, as Daystar Clarion has patiently been pointin out, yet still being ignored, apparently

It's ok.

I'm used to being ignored.

*que sad music as I walk into the horizon*

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Mojang are making a car game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

I really wish this were the case. It could be like Auto-Assault, but with Orcs...

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Mojang are making a car game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

I really wish this were the case. It could be like Auto-Assault, but with Orcs...

Best typo ever.

We should copyright that.

 

[Signa]

U.S. copyright laws. Look them up before you start claiming Bethesda are in the wrong.

That's lawyer talk. And I don't give a crap about U.S. copyright laws. Sane people know this shit's insane.

You don't think Bethesda knows that?

They have to protect their copyright or they lose it.

What's so difficult to understand? You can spout nonsense about 'oh well sane people know this is insane', but it's the fucking law, if Bethesda don't go to court, then it sets a precedent, which means anybody will be able to call their game something very similiar to The Elder Scrolls.

forgive my ignorance, by how it is not a reasonable solution to get Notch to abandon the "scrolls" trademark (as they have already) and then trademark "The Elder Scrolls" once there is no threat to the word "scrolls"? It seems like lawsuits are completely unnecessary at this point.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

forgive my ignorance, by how it is not a reasonable solution to get Notch to abandon the "scrolls" trademark (as they have already) and then trademark "The Elder Scrolls" once there is no threat to the word "scrolls"? It seems like lawsuits are completely unnecessary at this point.

Presumably they already have trademarked "The Elder Scrolls". The reason this is news, instead of just one of a billion incidents of something like this not going to court, is because people usually have their lawyers dot all their i's and cross all their t's before they register their trademarks, instead of just flying by the seat of their pants and then making outraged comments on Twitter when they get hauled into court.

 

[TheSmokingFox]

Besides the fact that it's a pretty common word... especially for particular genres,

nobody associates it with them anyway.

I don't think I know anyone who calls Elder Scrolls games "Elder Scrolls..."

Whenever I hear someone talking about an Elder Scrolls game they tend to call the game Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. I don't get why they're so protective of a word that they barely use.

Maybe all those little green pieces of paper they can claim. Just a thought...