Another good reason why Bethesda doesn't have any right to the word Scrolls

[Daystar Clarion]

U.S. copyright laws. Look them up before you start claiming Bethesda are in the wrong.

That's lawyer talk. And I don't give a crap about U.S. copyright laws. Sane people know this shit's insane.

You don't think Bethesda knows that?

They have to protect their copyright or they lose it.

What's so difficult to understand? You can spout nonsense about 'oh well sane people know this is insane', but it's the fucking law, if Bethesda don't go to court, then it sets a precedent, which means anybody will be able to call their game something very similiar to The Elder Scrolls.

forgive my ignorance, by how it is not a reasonable solution to get Notch to abandon the "scrolls" trademark (as they have already) and then trademark "The Elder Scrolls" once there is no threat to the word "scrolls"? It seems like lawsuits are completely unnecessary at this point.

They probably do have a copyright on 'The Elder Scrolls', but in situations like this, where 'scrolls' is being used, the game in particular has to be dissimiliar enough from The Elder Scrolls, that nobody is going to confuse the two.

The Elder Scrolls is a fantasy RPG set in a medieval fantasy world with different races.

Scrolls is a card game set in a medieval fantasy world with different races.

If Mojang was making a racing game called Scrolls, then there wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Mogget128723]

This whole thing is just stupid. If it was illegal to copyright individual words like it bloody well should be, then we wouldn't be running into idiocy like this.

*facepalm*

I'm going to explain this one more time.

Bethesda haven't got a copyright on the word 'Scrolls' in all its uses.

They have a copyright on the idea of a game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

Mojang are making a card game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

See where I'm going with this?

Bethesda's suit is out of fear that Mojang will copyright the name 'Scrolls' and cause them problems in the future. If they'd been suing over the contents of the game as well as the name, they've said that, so either they did and I didn't hear about it, or the issue is over the copyright of a noun in common use.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Best typo ever.

We should copyright that.

We need a good title. I suggest "The Elder Wheels: Motorwind".

 

[Daystar Clarion]

forgive my ignorance, by how it is not a reasonable solution to get Notch to abandon the "scrolls" trademark (as they have already) and then trademark "The Elder Scrolls" once there is no threat to the word "scrolls"? It seems like lawsuits are completely unnecessary at this point.

Presumably they already have trademarked "The Elder Scrolls". The reason this is news, instead of just one of a billion incidents of something like this not going to court, is because people usually have their lawyers dot all their i's and cross all their t's before they register their trademarks, instead of just flying by the seat of their pants and then making outraged comments on Twitter when they get hauled into court.

Exactly.

This shit happens everyday, but Mojang needs to keep his pions notified of everything he's doing, this includes frivolous misunderstanding of copyright law.

 

[Jimbo1212]

Besides the fact that it's a pretty common word... especially for particular genres,

nobody associates it with them anyway.

I don't think I know anyone who calls Elder Scrolls games "Elder Scrolls..."

Whenever I hear someone talking about an Elder Scrolls game they tend to call the game Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. I don't get why they're so protective of a word that they barely use.

....because that is what the series title is.

Also, it is not common in any shape or form, ESPECIALLY to have as a title..hence why it has never been used by anyone else.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

This whole thing is just stupid. If it was illegal to copyright individual words like it bloody well should be, then we wouldn't be running into idiocy like this.

*facepalm*

I'm going to explain this one more time.

Bethesda haven't got a copyright on the word 'Scrolls' in all its uses.

They have a copyright on the idea of a game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

Mojang are making a card game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

See where I'm going with this?

Bethesda's suit is out of fear that Mojang will copyright the name 'Scrolls' and cause them problems in the future. If they'd been suing over the contents of the game as well as the name, they've said that, so either they did and I didn't hear about it, or the issue is over the copyright of a noun in common use.

For fuck's sa-

Ahem.

Bethesda are protecting their copyright of the term 'Scrolls' in conjuction with the types of games they make.

If Mojang was making a racing game called Scrolls, this wouldn't be an issue.

[sub]I'm starting to get a headache...[/sub]

 

[Treblaine]

I love how a lot of people think Bethesda are sueing Mojang for no other reason than greed.

If you saw what Notch wanted to cover with his copyright of 'Scrolls', then people would probably think differently.

>talks with authority
>confuses "trademark" and "copyright"

So much hate for Mojang, where does it come from? I suppose it is a PC exclusive, indie success... people can't be petty enough to hate it for that reason. Can they?

 

[WaysideMaze]

Besides the fact that it's a pretty common word... especially for particular genres,

nobody associates it with them anyway.

I don't think I know anyone who calls Elder Scrolls games "Elder Scrolls..."

Whenever I hear someone talking about an Elder Scrolls game they tend to call the game Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. I don't get why they're so protective of a word that they barely use.

You are confusing something. It was not Bethesda who wanted to own "Scrolls", it was Mojang who wanted to trademark "Scrolls" in every form of electronic media, TV and radio, merchandise and everything. Since it would mean that "The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim" would be a trademark violation it is natural for Bethesda to try and protect their franchise.

Hey, lets compare the trademarks:

The Elder Scrolls: "Pre-recorded CD's and DVD's featuring fantasy games."

Scrolls: "Computer games; video games; computer software; computer and video games software; computer software downloaded or downloadable; computer software publications downloaded; interactive entertainment software; data recorded electronically from the Internet; data recorded in machine readable form from the Internet; discs, tapes, cartridges, CD-ROMs and other magnetic, electronic or optical media, all bearing computer games software or video games; electronic amusement apparatus for use with television receivers; electronic games apparatus; home video game machines."

And this is ONLY the part about games. So yes, it is clearly Bethesda who wants to own "Scrolls"...

And before some smartass is going to say "but they already wanted to pass on the trademark *durr*":
Yes. Mojang / Notch did say that. These are the people who only said that the lawsuits concerned their game "Scrolls" (misleading the public) and made stupid jokes about a serious matter (challenge to Quake match). I don't give a fuck anymore about what Mojang or Notch are saying. For me they are not telling the whole story -> they lie.

Nice summary. Mojang/Notch is being really unprofessional about this whole thing. Pretty much relying on popularity within the gaming community to try and make Bethesda out to be the big bad wicked witch. And of course we gamers do love to whine about the evil faceless corporations, jumping in to defend the little guy. [http://whatsminecraftsvalue.com]

I don't really know all the details of this case, so I'll save my reservations until I've learned more.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Best typo ever.

We should copyright that.

We need a good title. I suggest "The Elder Wheels: Motorwind".

Then we release an expansion pack called the 'The Shivering Dials', where the courses are so rough, the dials in your vehicle shake uncontrollably.

 

[Blunderboy]

I wish people that aren't lawyers would stop trying to understand why and how lawyers work. Unless you have spent the years and money needed to become a lawyer, you will probably have no real understanding of the legal system.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I love how a lot of people think Bethesda are sueing Mojang for no other reason than greed.

If you saw what Notch wanted to cover with his copyright of 'Scrolls', then people would probably think differently.

>talks with authority
>confuses "trademark" and "copyright"

So much hate for Mojang, where does it come from? I suppose it is a PC exclusive, indie success... people can't be petty enough to hate it for that reason. Can they?

If you're going to quote me and try and belittle my opinion, which is valid despite your pedantic criticisms, at least have the commom decency to do it properly so that I get a notification.

 

[Mark Hardigan]

How fun. Another, "I disagree with Bethesda and do not know the whole facts of how trademark law works so I shall just equate Bethesda to greedy bastards who are run by ego-maniacal jackasses who have nothing better to do than to try and screw over small developers" thread.

Read about Trademark law. Go read about what Notch wanted to cover with his trademark of Scrolls. Go read about previous trademark cases and how trademark works if you do not defend it. Then when you have educated yourselves, come back here and try to call Bethesda, "evil" for simply doing what any other business in their same exact situation would be doing.

If they were suing another huge company, nobody would bat an eye. There would be none of this, "oh, Poor Notch!" crap that is going around. But since they are suing Mojang, suddenly they are the "rich, greedy corporation running after the innocent and kind little independent developer."

 

[Treblaine]

This whole thing is just stupid. If it was illegal to copyright individual words like it bloody well should be, then we wouldn't be running into idiocy like this.

*facepalm*

I'm going to explain this one more time.

Bethesda haven't got a copyright on the word 'Scrolls' in all its uses.

They have a copyright on the idea of a game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

Mojang are making a card game, set in a fantasy world, with different races.

See where I'm going with this?

Bethesda's suit is out of fear that Mojang will copyright the name 'Scrolls' and cause them problems in the future. If they'd been suing over the contents of the game as well as the name, they've said that, so either they did and I didn't hear about it, or the issue is over the copyright of a noun in common use.

So much bollocks:
-it's a trademark, not a copyright
-Zenimax's trademark clearly pre-dates Mojang's request
-Neither copyright nor trademark of a single dictionary word is widely accepted (Case of "edge")
-Mojang requested the trademark "just to see if it would be accepted"
-this is precedented with likes of Zenimax's own "Rage" and "Streets of Rage" and many other examples
-Mojang has offered to drop the trademark claim for just the name "Scrolls", but Zenimax are still suing for him even daring to NAME his game Scrolls or any variant or component of scrolls
-Notch has avoided confrontation throughout and constantly pursued a settlement but Zenimax will accept nothing less than Mojang to remove all use of the word "scrolls" in any context with any type of game.

 

[Truehare]

Whenever I hear someone talking about an Elder Scrolls game they tend to call the game Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. I don't get why they're so protective of a word that they barely use.

Barely Use? The Elder Scrolls is the title given before any of the others. The "Scrolls" are mentioned in each of the games, in the form of conversation and the books in the games. Just because people forgo the Elder Scrolls before mentioning which game, means nothing.

New Hope, Empire, Jedi, Menace, Clones, Sith is how these movies are referred to when people are talking about them. That doesnt mean that the title STAR WARS, shouldnt be defended as a trademark as well.

Again, all the arm chair lawyers need to wait until REAL details of the lawsuit are actually made available to the public, and first arguments are heard. There is no need for all the speculation and assumptions, that logically just doesnt hold up. Much like your argument.

PS. Before Oblivion, Morrowind was referred to as Elder Scrolls, because it was the only one at the time. Just as "A New Hope" was simply called Star Wars before Empire.

Just two observations: Star Wars is a title consisting of TWO words. Much like the ELDER SCROLLS. If Lucasfilm tried to sue someone for using those two words in the same order for the title of a space opera, they would be absolutely right to do so. But if they tried to, say, sue thje makers of Star Trek for using one of the words in the title of a fairly similar series (similar in that it has to do with space, I'm well aware of the difference between space opera and hard science fiction), or if someone made a movie simply called "Star" and got sued by Lucasfilm for using one of the two trademarked words, that would be a jerk move.

And secondly, what do you mean Morrowind (aka "The Elder Scrolls 3") was the only E.S. game before Oblivion? Where were Arena and Daggerfall then?

 

[Treblaine]

I love how a lot of people think Bethesda are sueing Mojang for no other reason than greed.

If you saw what Notch wanted to cover with his copyright of 'Scrolls', then people would probably think differently.

>talks with authority
>confuses "trademark" and "copyright"

So much hate for Mojang, where does it come from? I suppose it is a PC exclusive, indie success... people can't be petty enough to hate it for that reason. Can they?

If you're going to quote me and try and belittle my opinion, which is valid despite your pedantic criticisms, at least have the commom decency to do it properly so that I get a notification.

Seems you got it fine enough

in less than 4 minutes

I figured such a comment would get such a torrent of corrections in your inbox I thought I might do you a favour and ease your burden. I also guessed you would have nothing to say in the contrary other than to complain that I dared to correct your ignorance, the edit button is right there.

You could go back and correct your mistake or at least admit that you have next to no clue what you are talking about.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I love how a lot of people think Bethesda are sueing Mojang for no other reason than greed.

If you saw what Notch wanted to cover with his copyright of 'Scrolls', then people would probably think differently.

>talks with authority
>confuses "trademark" and "copyright"

So much hate for Mojang, where does it come from? I suppose it is a PC exclusive, indie success... people can't be petty enough to hate it for that reason. Can they?

If you're going to quote me and try and belittle my opinion, which is valid despite your pedantic criticisms, at least have the commom decency to do it properly so that I get a notification.

Seems you got it fine enough

in less than 4 minutes

I figured such a comment would get such a torrent of corrections in your inbox I thought I might do you a favour and ease your burden. I also guessed you would have nothing to say in the contrary other than to complain that I dared to correct your ignorance, the edit button is right there.

You could go back and correct your mistake or at least admit that you have next to no clue what you are talking about.

No, no, you're right.

I'm sorry. I appear to be getting worked up from how many people can't seem to grasp the rule of law here.

My apologies.

 

[easternflame]

Besides the fact that it's a pretty common word... especially for particular genres,

nobody associates it with them anyway.

I don't think I know anyone who calls Elder Scrolls games "Elder Scrolls..."

Whenever I hear someone talking about an Elder Scrolls game they tend to call the game Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. I don't get why they're so protective of a word that they barely use.

Actually, no it's not that, I would recommend you read this article.

Spoiler: ALSO, WRITTEN BY MR RUSS PITTS

[link]http://kotaku.com/5846111/mojang-v-bethesda-or-i-hate-it-when-mommy-and-daddy-fight[/link]

They could be loosing the word "Scrolls" to mojang because of what the lawsuit says.

 

[Interrobangin]

Is there really a boycott going on as petty as this?

The company is throwing a hissy-fit over a title. Neither side is helping. And you're going to the hard-working publishers because of a few overzealous grammar-Nazis? Shouldn't, in theory, boycott the product because of unfair treatment towards the consumer? Bethesda has done nothing to insult me, to insult my intelligence, to give me unfair treatment when I use their service or buy their product. A few people, probably just a few rotten, greedy lawyers, are having a pissing match claiming to defend their IP because a few guys who didn't know what they were getting into just want to make their game. Its as childish as these flame-war threads about the issue.

How about you maybe boycott games that blatantly copy-paste previous installments and rip-off every last aspect of a different successful? You know, the games that slap us in the face because they're treating us like stupid children and that they should be rewarded for regurgitating the same crap over and over. Shouldn't those games be in peoples' sights?

This is a great post. When I heard there was going to be a boycott of Skyrim (even if on a somewhat insignificant scale) I briefly considered suicide, and I only didn't because I still had to watch this week's episode of Breaking Bad. Anyway, on the topic of a boycott, it's like that... religious adherence some people have. I'm no expert, but I'm sure it's something tribal; such as, if there is an attack on their alpha male, then they must rise to his defense.
Now, I'm not claiming that notch is any sort of alpha male, but I'm just trying to demonstrate the mentality that I feel (could be wrong) that these people have when it comes to over-exaggerating their relationship with a game developer. By no means do I like using the word "fanboy" (out of a desire not to indulge movie bob), but thinking someone is infallible just because they make a game you like, and thinking another someone is evil just because they are trying to protect their product, is fucking stupid.

Not that blind herd mentality is the only angle in this whole thing, but it's what annoys me the most about the whole thing.