Anyone else *INSANELY* disappointed by Bioshock Infinite?

[grey_space]

It's a MAJOR revelation at the end of the game, dude. Not to sound rude, but you really gotta pay more attention. They literally spell it out for you during the ending sequence where Elizabeth takes you through all of the alternate realities.

Not at all you certainly don't sound rude and thanks a lot for the explanatory post. I'd spent ages on the last level (totally ignoring my Girlfriend and the dinner she had prepared for me) and as soon as It was over and I made my way to the bow of the ship with Elizabeth I totally had to divide my attention between all the revelations occurring on screen and... my dinner and the story of her day... So yeah I really wasn't paying full attention.

I'd kinda thought that Booker = Comstock and But it only was a theory for me and I completely missed that bit at the end.

(Loved the shout-out to Rapture though)

I probably will play it again on 1999 and really stop and go through every little detail, stopping to go through every side mission and pick up every voxphone.

But thanks again for the post!

 

[squid5580]

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I was glad there was no final boss, but there was a final fight. I never got the sense that I should have to fight comstock, a feeble old man as an epic encounter. I thought the much more personal encounter was better.

I agree with the final battle. It showed that Comstock was not an invincible man, but instead an old feeble preacher. It was very personal, and IMO having a huge bossfight would have felt out of place.

I'm going to assume that anyone reading this won't mind spoilers. Just in case, consider this your spoiler warning.

I really liked the game, right up until the ending. It brings up so many questions that it just doesn't feel like answering. Once Songbird destroys the Columbia Monument, Elizabeth just becomes a completely different person. I assume this is because without the siphon, she is able to see all the different worlds, but I wouldn't expect a complete 180 change in personality immediately. Over time, sure, but it just felt unnatural, even under those conditions.

Let's just step through Elizabeth's actions at the end. She kills Songbird, even though he was her friend once upon a time, when she really didn't have to. She could have easily sent herself and Booker to Rapture without dragging Songbird along. Then she encourages, almost seems to force Booker to give Anna to Lutece. I still don't fully grasp the implications of that decision. That's how Anna becomes Elizabeth, but history could have been rewritten (I assume) such that Anna is raised by Booker, and Comstock or Elizabeth would never have been. Then Elizabeth drown Booker. The most shocking part of that, is that there were several versions of Elizabeth who all believed that be the proper course of action. To make sure Comstock never existed, I get that, but there were a number of other events that would have prevented DeWitt from becoming Comstock.

I just don't get the motivations. Did Elizabeth really believe that the series of events she chose would lead to the best outcome? For whom? It was all just very shocking. I'm still trying to decide whether I like the ending or not.

Isn't it that she was also wiping away her own existence by drowning Booker? I assummed the baptism was before conception

 

[Jumplion]

You don't see much history of who Daisy Fitzroy is, how the Vox truly started, or really see the actual -current- conflict between the Founders and Vox as was advertised. I also felt there was an excess in weapons, there really wasn't much reason to have two different types of weapons for the two factions, all it did was add more extraneous weapons and upgrades that will be underused and as a result underpowered when you have to use them. You'll quickly develop favorites, so bringing weapons later that are somewhat different wont change anything. The setting, as well, I felt was slightly underutilized later in the game.

Some elements weren't really expanded on at all, like the Raven cult thing. The hell was up with those guys, can anyone tell me?

They do explain a lot of that stuff if you get the audiologs. The vigours are implied to have been based on / stolen by Fink plasmids from Rapture through a tear. Daisy Fitzroy was an attendant to Lady Comstock and was scapegoated in her murder, escaping to found the Vox, while the Raven cult were the bodyguards of Lady Comstock and basically went to shit after she was killed.

I do agree on the weapons, the burstgun in particular was absolutely useless. I spent all my cash on vigours and left the guns unupgraded since I was guaranteed to have the vigours on hand.

I got that the vigors are based off plasmids, but I meant that we don't understand vigors in a more fundamental way. If it's just reshaping DNA and stuff again then I'd say it goes against the Quantum Mechanics thing that they were building up throughout the game. The Daisy Fitzroy thing I guess I wasn't paying attention, though their relevance does start to ween off as the game goes on. Raven cult I never understood, guess I didn't get the audiolog.

See, audiologs can only do so much, and because of their collectable nature you run the risk of denying story elements to people that are genuinely interested in the part of the story you're withholding just because they didn't have enough lockpicks or didn't backtrack for 10 minutes to find the doorway that they couldn't access before but they can now.

Burstgun was stupid and if you play on the harder difficulties, like I did, the shield and health upgrades become fairly useless as enemies just shoot through your shield effectively anyway and the gears that give you health on kills become practically mandatory to survive.

It sounds like I'm bitching a lot about this game, and I am, but a lot of this stuff is very small compared to the overall experience, which is pretty fantastic, at least for me. I'm planning on going back for 1999 mode sometime soon and try to catch some more things I didn't before. Like, did you know that when the Luteces flip the coin, it's always heads, and when Elizabeth tosses you cash you always catch it tails? That's cray, dudes.

 

[Weatherking]

And as for the Annabelle thing from that random chick, I just thought it was some coincidence. Booker's daughter was never Annabelle, it was Anna. While similar enough to present some foreshadowing, it wasnt solid enough to give me any indication that this random agent knew the connection.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the girl who asked Elizabeth that, part of the group opening fire on Booker after trying to get tickets out of Colombia in the scene directly after that? If that's the case I saw it as she was baiting Elizabeth to find out whether or not it was really her so they could get the right person.

Regarding my own views on the game, I was the opposite of disappointed. It will probably go down as one of my top ten if not five favorite games ever after I'm done playing trough it the second time to pick up all the stuff I missed. I just think it's an exquisitely and lovingly crafted experience on just about every front and I love this sort of sci-fi even though I can see it's easy to poke holes like crazy in these sorts of stories. It inspired me to re-watch Primer and I'm planning on watching The Butterfly Effect again too, alternate timeline stuff is great

 

[Bug MuIdoon]

It was, disappointingly, a lot more linear than the original. I remember getting to the area with the farmers market, Bank etc. (which is what, 2/3rd's of the way in?) and thinking "Finally, a decent sized area that I can explore" So I explored it all, only for the game to force me round every single part of it anyway afterwards.

 

[Pebkio]

I have got... 2... sightseeing spots left to collect for the 1000 point completion. Then, after college today, I'm taking my copy to Entertainmart or somewhere that will give me a decent price, and maybe even try to pick up Bioshock 1 and 2 again. For if this game did anything, it made me want to go play an actual Bioshock game.

I enjoyed it, sure. I don't work to 1000 point just any game. It was a fun story with imaginative set pieces, and the setting rocked... and it also had magic, technically. But the game wasn't enjoyable; I didn't have much fun slogging through harder sections in the hardest mode. I had fun trying not to die in Bioshock's hardest mode. I had fun learning to deftly use decoy and security command while using the handyman tonic in Bioshock 2's hardest mode. I did not have fun having to rely on the sniper rifle, like I was playing Modern Warfare, in Bioshock Infinite's hardest mode.

So it's not something I'm going to want to play over and over... so it goes back to the store... so I can maybe pick up Bioshock 1 and 2 again (because they were stolen from me, along with Just Cause 2, Dark Souls, and Halo 3).

 

[Weatherking]

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Isn't it that she was also wiping away her own existence by drowning Booker? I assummed the baptism was before conception

The way I understand it, by drowning Booker, they alter what happens to the Booker who after wounded knee accepts the baptism and therefore killing the one who becomes Comstock. The Booker that chooses to walk away lives like he did in the player character version of him, only because there is no possibility of a Comstock existing anymore he can not take Anna from our Booker, ergo the Elizabeth in the game who was trapped by Comstock never exists, only Booker's daughter Anna. Considering Booker was a gambling alcoholic at the time and irresponsible enough to potentially give his own daughter away to pay a debt, potentially this couldn't be considered a 'happy' ending.

 

[Vykrel]

I probably will play it again on 1999 and really stop and go through every little detail, stopping to go through every side mission and pick up every voxphone.

But thanks again for the post!

You're welcome. Good luck with 1999 mode... I think I'm too scared to attempt it.

 

[squid5580]

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Isn't it that she was also wiping away her own existence by drowning Booker? I assummed the baptism was before conception

The way I understand it, by drowning Booker, they alter what happens to the Booker who after wounded knee accepts the baptism and therefore killing the one who becomes Comstock. The Booker that chooses to walk away lives like he did in the player character version of him, only because there is no possibility of a Comstock existing anymore he can not take Anna from our Booker, ergo the Elizabeth in the game who was trapped by Comstock never exists, only Booker's daughter Anna. Considering Booker was a gambling alcoholic at the time and irresponsible enough to potentially give his own daughter away to pay a debt, potentially this couldn't be considered a 'happy' ending.

That isn't what I got from it. I understand that when she drowns him she kills both (or all) versions of Booker. Like his plan to suffocate Comstock as a baby. Which leads to the question whether Anna was conceived before or after the baptism. Either way she can never become Elizabeth

 

[Weatherking]

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Isn't it that she was also wiping away her own existence by drowning Booker? I assummed the baptism was before conception

The way I understand it, by drowning Booker, they alter what happens to the Booker who after wounded knee accepts the baptism and therefore killing the one who becomes Comstock. The Booker that chooses to walk away lives like he did in the player character version of him, only because there is no possibility of a Comstock existing anymore he can not take Anna from our Booker, ergo the Elizabeth in the game who was trapped by Comstock never exists, only Booker's daughter Anna. Considering Booker was a gambling alcoholic at the time and irresponsible enough to potentially give his own daughter away to pay a debt, potentially this couldn't be considered a 'happy' ending.

That isn't what I got from it. I understand that when she drowns him she kills both (or all) versions of Booker. Like his plan to suffocate Comstock as a baby. Which leads to the question whether Anna was conceived before or after the baptism. Either way she can never become Elizabeth

Let's see if I can still keep this all clear in my head.
We know that Anna was born 1892, two years after wounded knee, I don' remember if it's something I made up but I think I remember the baptism taking place directly after wounded knee, before Anna would have been born. The implication from the after credits sequence (which is to be honest pretty loosely inferred) is that only the versions of Booker who accepts the baptism are killed, and the one who chooses to walk away lives on as I said. The reason for this change of fixed events in the alternate timelines has to do with Elizabeth's ability to change what is a constant and a variable event in the Infinite multi-verse structure, if this doesn't make sense look up the audio logs from Lutece which brings up the principles of constants and variables in the Infinite universe.
Regarding the point about smothering lil' baby Comstock, the baptism is effectively Comstocks birth out of Booker thus drowning him during the baptism is smothering him in his crib albeit figuratively.

It feels wierd to take this so seriously, I think it's the first time I've gone to this degree with speculating the events of a work of fiction.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Than your expectations were insanely high.

I was a little disappointed the game couldn't keep up with the amazing first hour, though I would have been very impressed if it had. The middle of the game, when the city had more or less completely crumbled, just kinda got a little flatfooted. The environments were rather bland for a good section of the game (sorta around the time the Vox take over)

As for the ending, I thought the reveals were fine. It's a love it or hate it type thing, and I thought it was good. I think the drowning sort of came out of nowhere, and was a little disappointed that was the only way the game could end (even though that was kind of the point). I wish it had gone more along the lines of the first Bioshock. You get the twist, and than you get one or two more levels worth of gameplay.

Though I will say I was pleasantly surprised by the choices in the game. The first time I played through, I picked all of the "good" choices. The second time through, I picked most of the bad ones, and it was actually a lot more entertaining. Had a real Han Solo vibe with it, and made Booker as a character feel a lot more bad ass.

 

[barbzilla]

I enjoyed the game enough to finish it, which is something I can't say about 2 so that says something. However, I feel the game missed its mark. The weapon systems have been oversimplified to the point that I feel as though I am playing Halo. You rely on regenerating shields with static health (like halo), and can only hold two weapons (like halo again). Gone are the interesting weapons from the bioshock universe. That was always one of the key points to the bioshock games (granted story is the key, I will get into that later), along with the plasmids (vigors as they are called here). The vigors are also kind of meh. The early vigors you receive all play the same style roles, it isn't until late game that you get some utility vigors. On top of that, the environmental interactions have been "streamlined" to the point that they are just a series of light tactical choices, though they aren't even all that useful. You can create a hook (by far the most versatile choice of the tears), create a weapon/health/salts cache, create an ally, or create a tiny environmental hazard. This just doesn't feel organic any more. In the other bioshock games, everything felt organic and put together, as though you were actually engaging in this beautiful set piece, instead of just altering it.

The story was pretty good though. Granted there are a few questions and holes left behind, the story was fantastic otherwise. So I still enjoyed the game. I just think it left a sour taste in my mouth because of the lack luster combat.

 

[Dogstile]

EDIT: Oh yeah,

Spoiler

When that chick mistakes Ellie for Annabelle, (should have tipped us all off but it didn't)it had me think, why was Elizabeth's name changed to Elizabeth in the first place? Beside to hide the fact she was your daughter. And how did this random chick know about that, unless it was bleed-over from another universe? That whole part didn't make sense to me.

Not sure if someones answered this, but...

Spoiler

She was one of the agents ambushing you. Everyone in that area was an agent making sure you were the people to ambush. The gateman is in on it (closes it down right after you get through) the vendor and the customer are in on it (stop and listen to the dialog, its hilarious. Comstocks agents are bad actors) and obviously the ticket guy is in on it.

It honestly baffles me how many problems people have with this game, especially as almost all of them are explained in game and you've just not taken the time to listen.

 

[R.Nevermore]

And as for the Annabelle thing from that random chick, I just thought it was some coincidence. Booker's daughter was never Annabelle, it was Anna. While similar enough to present some foreshadowing, it wasnt solid enough to give me any indication that this random agent knew the connection.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the girl who asked Elizabeth that, part of the group opening fire on Booker after trying to get tickets out of Colombia in the scene directly after that? If that's the case I saw it as she was baiting Elizabeth to find out whether or not it was really her so they could get the right person.

Regarding my own views on the game, I was the opposite of disappointed. It will probably go down as one of my top ten if not five favorite games ever after I'm done playing trough it the second time to pick up all the stuff I missed. I just think it's an exquisitely and lovingly crafted experience on just about every front and I love this sort of sci-fi even though I can see it's easy to poke holes like crazy in these sorts of stories. It inspired me to re-watch Primer and I'm planning on watching The Butterfly Effect again too, alternate timeline stuff is great

I figure she was an agent of Columbia's FBI or something, just trying to get a good look at her, moving in closely to see if it was indeed Elizabeth. She made up a fake name as an excuse to get up close. When she had her confirmation, she gave the signal to her other agents.

 

[ungothicdove]

I really enjoyed the game; I love when a game makes me go to the web immediately after finishing it to read up on others thoughts and theories about what happened.

That being said, I do have a couple things that are minor complaints.

1) I never really used any vigors besides the power jockey. Once I got, I pretty much relied on it unless I was going against the handy-man. Shock and shoot, shock and shoot. Maybe it's just my style of play but it seemed the most effective and didn't drain my salts as much as some of the others.

2) While two weapons might be more realistic, Infinite isn't exactly the most real world based game. Even if we couldn't have them all, a four weapon system could have been a nice middle ground I think.

3) Some of the backtracking got very tedious for me. I hate backtracking.

4) I wish there was a way to holster or put away your weapons in some areas. I like being able to enjoy the gorgeous views of Columbia without my gun getting in the way.

5) No saving unless it's one of their checkpoints.

But, I should mention one thing I absolutely loved about the game: Elizabeth not needing any protection. God I hate when NPCs die and fuck you so that you have to start the mission over. And that she was actually helpful in combat by giving you salts or ammo. She was the most enjoyable companion I've had since Alyx.

 

[IPunchWithMyFists]

My thoughts are that this topic took a week later than I expected to arrive.

Does this really happen that often? I'm not trying to be a dick about anything.

Not like your thread. Normally they are along the lines of "Why does everybody like this? Here is a list of reasons for why you should not". There is a pattern of sorts when big name games come out.

Your post, however, was merely giving your honest opinion on the game, so I was exaggerating really. It's a shame you didn't like it, but I guess it all depends on individual preferences. It's not going to appeal to everybody.

That said, my comment seems to have come across as more snarky than intended, so I have removed it from my first post.

The lack of explanation for some things was a little disappointing. I'd like to have found out more about the SongBird and the Vigors for example.

Not sure about the SongBird, but the Vigors were explained as being the same thing as Rapture's Plasmids, I believe. In some of the audio tapes Fink talks about stealing technology from the tears that show him other worlds, and at one point he mentions observing a brilliant biologist (presumably Tenenbaum).

It's kind of funny, as soon as I read this reply my memory suddenly "pinged" and I recall hearing Fink mentioning using tears to learn things. Thank you for reminding me.

It's cool man, no worries.

 

[Rob Robson]

I sum up Bioshock 2 like this: 'That game that stands in the shadow of Dishonoured'. There are too many similarities not to think of Dishonoured, and Dishonoured is just a better game in almost every way.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

I sum up Bioshock 2 like this: 'That game that stands in the shadow of Dishonoured'. There are too many similarities not to think of Dishonoured, and Dishonoured is just a better game in almost every way.

I think you're thinking about the wrong game.

 

[Kajin]

I loved it, but it kinda felt like the game removed a fair bit of strategic depth that had been present in the first game. I felt hardly any need to use any vigors outside of my personal holy trinity of Possession, Murder of Crows, and Shock Jockey. The guns felt relatively interchangeable and I felt almost no attachment to any of them. The Tear mechanic and the Sky Rails (when they were actually present) more than made up for it, but all throughout I felt an almost profound sense of loss wherever combat was concerned.

I also really loved fighting the handymen, and I was rather annoyed when I got to the end of the game and I'd only fought like, three or four of them up to that point.

Overall, though, the combat was still pretty fun and the story was awesome. I don't care what anyone says, the plot isn't all that convoluted if you actually paid attention.