Are Men Allowed To Be Offended?

[wulf3n]

However, I find it interesting that no one mentions how men are "mistreated" until after the topic of women representation comes up. I have never, once, heard of a single man complaining about how men are represented in games. That only happens when women bring up the issue of how they are unfairly depicted in games.

I think it stems from the "Eat a bowl of cement and harden the fuck up" mentality that is "Man". So when other people complain it can be a bit grating.

It could also stem from jealousy to a lesser extent. "Oh you get to complain but I can't" sort of thing.

Just a guess.

 

[GamesterOfGaming]

That isn't what "protected class" means. It's a legal term.

 

[Silvanus]

Scarlet Blade is out and out a porn game, yo. They don't even have male playable characters and subscribers can go about naked.

Not that I'm defending it, it's shitty on all fronts. Just saying I'm not sure how it fits in the argument when it's explicitly meant to be pornographic.

Ah, that's fair enough, I wasn't aware. It says a lot that many of the others i found are just as revealing, though.

 

[GamesterOfGaming]

In any case you're arguing about the PR line put out by one party in the case before it begins in earnest, which is like arguing over whether Miller Lite is less filling or tastes great (Google that if you're too young to understand).

 

[Quantum Glass]

Yeah, of course. Saying that white men can't be discriminated against is the same as saying that white men are the norm, and on a different level from everyone else. Which is problematic.

You can sexually harass any--it is possible to sexually harass anyone.

Incidentally, if I were called Penis, I'd probably feel more bemused than actually offended. For one thing, if she called /every/ male employee Penis, things would get confusing pretty fast. For another, it's a fairly neutral term for the body part in question--not quite as detached as, "Male genitalia," but still relatively inoffensive. If it were preceded by an adjective, maybe. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't necessarily want to be /called/ it, but only because it'd be strange. I'd feel the same way about being called, "Elevator."

I'm not saying that she wasn't sexually harassing them; merely that she did it in a really confusing way.

 

[Cybylt]

Scarlet Blade is out and out a porn game, yo. They don't even have male playable characters and subscribers can go about naked.

Not that I'm defending it, it's shitty on all fronts. Just saying I'm not sure how it fits in the argument when it's explicitly meant to be pornographic.

Ah, that's fair enough, I wasn't aware. It says a lot that many of the others i found are just as revealing, though.

Yeah... though in those games it'll be the skimpiest armors except maybe TERA which is armored bikinis for everyone. In Scarlet Blade that's probably the least exposed a character can be, shit's like Queen's Blade but worse.

And those games certainly won't have mechs with pilot seats that thrust the torso out of the armor to expose the breasts and navel.

Seriously though don't google that stuff, I did thinking "that can't possibly be real," and I was wrong.

 

[vIRL Nightmare]

Exactly said, white men are the root of all evil and therefore don't have the equal protection everyone has. Don't deny it, it is true. Slowly over time we went from the honest truth that white men had an unfair advantage and gone to white men now having an unfair disadvantage, except they're still seen has the racist sexist pigs. At the end of the day the real crime is the ignorant lack of tolerance we seem to possess as a species.

That said, I don't think I'd personally care that much if women in a firm I worked walked up and said, "Can you go print this for me, penis." I know people that talk like that when they're joking around, harm is not really intended,and collectively we all need to be a little more thick skinned in my opinion.

 

[FallenMessiah88]

If a woman is allowed to be offended by a dongle joke, then men are certainly allowed to be offended by the word "penis".

So, men should be allowed to cost someone their job if they use the word penis in a private conversation with someone else, and the man in question eavesdrops and hears it? So long as we're on the same page.

I don't agree with the outcome of the Adria Richards case. Those guys should not have lost their jobs over something so trivial and stupid. The point of my post is that if you agree that the dongle joke counts as sexual harassment, then you also have to agree that this case counts as sexual harassment.

 

[144_v1legacy]

People that are male, white, well-employed, heterosexual, Christian, educated, not adopted, from a 1st-world country, fit, and free of medical conditions...

...can't be offended. If you are in the group that people complain to, you can't complain back.

Men can't complain to women about gender inequality.
White people can't complain to non-whites about racial inequality.
The upper class can't complain to the lower class about economic inequality.
Straight people can't complain to LGBT people about sexual inequality.
Privileged people can't complain to those less fortunate about educational inequality.
Healthy people can't complain to the sick and injured about medical inequality.

Whether or not these people can complain about other groups is a different matter. But these people should neither expect nor deserve sympathy.

i.e., those with more power can't complain to those with less.

Regarding the example with the CEO and employees, for the employees to sue for gender discrimination was a mistake. A lawsuit regarding employee abuse would have made a better case.

 

[blackrave]

Yes, men are allowed to be offended.
Also men are allowed to stick their potential complains into their own asses.
Because if men dares to vocalize their complains they will be ridiculed by majority.
And nothing ever will change
.
.
.
I fucking love humanity

 

[Austin Manning]

Attractive does not equate with sexualised. Most Final Fantasy male characters, the metal gear protagonists, Nathan Drake-- as attractive as they may be, they do not tend to walk around nearly naked.

You clearly haven't played many Final Fantasy or Metal Gear games then. Though it ultimately depends on the character designer, male Final Fantasy protagonists are often designed to look "appealing" to women. Both Tidus and Vaan show a lot of skin, to the point where Vaan looks like he works part time as a male stripper:

Spoiler

In Metal Gear Solid 2 there is a level where the bishounen protagonist runs around completely naked. In games where you play as the character Naked Snake, there is always the option to run around naked from the waste up. Furthermore, for a franchise that you say does not sexualize men, the uniforms the protagonists wear are all skin tight and the camera is almost always focused on their backside.

Again, that's romance, not sexualisation.

No, that's sexualization to a T. The covers of those kinds of Harlequin romances are meant to show the protagonist that the female reader is supposed to project on to, and the sexually attractive man who will spend the novel wooing her.

Ah, that's fair enough, I wasn't aware. It says a lot that many of the others i found are just as revealing, though.

I'm not actually sure it does. I'm not saying you're wrong, you could be right for all I know, but I question how you found the images. Did you just image search "scantily clad females in gaming"? The reason why I think this is because it's clear that you don't have experience with the games or the larger context within them. Seeing as you didn't realize that Terra has character models for providing "fanservice" to women and that one of your examples was from a freaking porn game.

 

[Austin Manning]

People that are male, white, well-employed, heterosexual, Christian, educated, not adopted, from a 1st-world country, fit, and free of medical conditions...

...can't be offended. If you are in the group that people complain to, you can't complain back.

Men can't complain to women about gender inequality.
White people can't complain to non-whites about racial inequality.
The upper class can't complain to the lower class about economic inequality.
Straight people can't complain to LGBT people about sexual inequality.
Privileged people can't complain to those less fortunate about educational inequality.
Healthy people can't complain to the sick and injured about medical inequality.

Whether or not these people can complain about other groups is a different matter. But these people should neither expect nor deserve sympathy.

i.e., those with more power can't complain to those with less.

Regarding the example with the CEO and employees, for the employees to sue for gender discrimination was a mistake. A lawsuit regarding employee abuse would have made a better case.

Wait, by your logic, shouldn't they not be able to sue? After all they are men and, according to you, have more power than their boss since she is female.

 

[chadachada123]

Comics make both sexes stereotypically attractive... and then, for women only, they make their outfits near-nonexistent, and consistently pose them so the camera can get a good long look at the cleavage or ass.

I disagree with your observation, and find it demeaning to males, but I doubt anything I say will get you to open your mind on the matter.

But as a final argument:

Spoiler

Not only that, but here, too: Clearly it is the female here that is sexualized here. Totally not the male hero:

Spoiler

 

[Random Argument Man]

You know what we call a man who is offensive to women? Misogynistic.
You know what we call a woman who is offensive to men? A feminist. At best. Most of the time nothing at all.

The word you're looking for is not "Feminist". It's "misandry". Feminist means "A person who's for equality of rights between genders and equal representation of the genders".
"Misandry" means "hatred or prejudice against men".

Sadly, I can't blame you since no one uses the word. I've learned about it yesterday...

 

[Cecilo]

You know what we call a man who is offensive to women? Misogynistic.
You know what we call a woman who is offensive to men? A feminist. At best. Most of the time nothing at all.

The word you're looking for is not "Feminist". It's "misandry". Feminist means "A person who's for equality of rights between genders and equal representation of the genders".
"Misandry" means "hatred or prejudice against men".

Sadly, I can't blame you since no one uses the word. I've learned about it yesterday...

I don't really believe so. Misandry doesn't exist apparently.

 

[Lightknight]

As a white man who once worked in an office with 50 employees of whom only 3 were white males (and all three worked in the mail room by ourselves), I'm going to go with no, we can't be offended or cry racist/sexist since clearly we are not only directly responsible for all racism/sexism perpetrated by our gender/race combination but are still obviously part of the problem.[/pessimistic sarcasm]

FYI, the job was not in any area of business or area of town that would have warranted that kind of demographic spread.

 

[Random Argument Man]

You know what we call a man who is offensive to women? Misogynistic.
You know what we call a woman who is offensive to men? A feminist. At best. Most of the time nothing at all.

The word you're looking for is not "Feminist". It's "misandry". Feminist means "A person who's for equality of rights between genders and equal representation of the genders".
"Misandry" means "hatred or prejudice against men".

Sadly, I can't blame you since no one uses the word. I've learned about it yesterday...

I don't really believe so. Misandry doesn't exist apparently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misandry

It shows that education has still ways to go.

*Although, that video's a bit Sarkeesianish.

 

[Seieko Pherdo]

People will always get offended by things, no matter how silly or logical. Some are valid some are not.

 

[K12]

I think the thing that people constantly seem to forget in these issues is that prejudice and discrimination is a society wide issue and not something that's done by singular people.

The whole "white men are not a protected class" thing is true (sort of) because there are very few places where white men are disadvantaged. There are definitely some (sexism is bad for men as well) but they aren't a disadvantaged group.

Anyone is allowed to be offended about anything but the issue is whether their grievance is a serious issue that is disadvantaging them or whether they are just being thin-skinned. I think there's a tendency to see "discrimination against men" as the latter because white men as a group still have most of the power in the world.