Is there a charcater that can be considered the architypcial "Holy Warrior/Knight" in the lore of Middle Earth? Or anything close to one like the Wacraft and D&D Paladin or the Warrior Priest and Grial Knight of Warhammer?
Are there any "Paladins" in Tolkien's Middle-Earth lore?
- Thread starter Samtemdo8_v1legacy
- Start date
Probably not.
Lord of the Rings was the base for DnD, but beyond that DnD is a compendium of medieval culture, myths and lore. Paladins most likely just came from Holy Crusaders, and the romanticized knights.
Plus considering the focus on nature = good, Tolkien would propably prefer Druids to Paladins.
Lord of the Rings was the base for DnD, but beyond that DnD is a compendium of medieval culture, myths and lore. Paladins most likely just came from Holy Crusaders, and the romanticized knights.
Plus considering the focus on nature = good, Tolkien would propably prefer Druids to Paladins.
If Tolkien were alive and a Warhammer Tabletop player he would definately play the Wood Elves:Saelune said:
Eagles?, Tree-Men?, Elves? Tolkien would orgasim at the sight of them.
No, and the reason has to do with what a Paladin is defined by: Faith. Faith doesn't really exist in Middle Earth. That is not to say that the people don't believe in a higher power. They do. The thing is though, they KNOW it's real. They don't need to pray for a guardian angel to come down and give them strength, because there are already angels walking among them. The Wizards are Middle Earth's angels. The elves already know that they will be at peace because their version of heaven is something they can literally sail to. Basically, it boils down to the fact that people don't need Faith--believing in something even though you can't see it--when there is clear evidence of a higher power walking down the street.
So no, religious based warrior who drawn their power from devote belief and ask for their weapons to channel the divine light to smite the darkness don't exist in Lord of the Rings.
So no, religious based warrior who drawn their power from devote belief and ask for their weapons to channel the divine light to smite the darkness don't exist in Lord of the Rings.
He'd probably be furious that they completely missed the point of what he was trying to do and commit sepuku.Samtemdo8 said:
I think he joked about suing people for naming their babies after his characters. I don't know how serious he was, though.Saelune said:
To be fair Lord of the Rings was overwhelmingly pirated throughout the states and he never really tried to do anything about it. He also got harassed by a lot of his pot smoking Yankee fans. I can't blame him for being a little grump about it. He also said he wanted people to continue contributing to fantasy after he died. So who knows?
I'm not sure about that.Fox12 said:
I think a fair amount of fantasy fans 'get' Lord of the Rings, in regards to the sub-text and analogies within its world/story. Using elves in a different, less thematic manner doesn't necessarily mean that you don't 'get' it, just that you're using them differently. Not to mention that Tolkien doesn't own the concept of elves.
So, taking Warhammer for instance, we have three main elf kindreds, all three of which share terms within Lord of the Rings (High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves). The latter two are subversions of sorts, with the Dark Elves being unspeakably cruel, and the Wood Elves having 'gone native,' so to speak. It's kind of like saying that Warcraft "doesn't get" orcs by making them more than a race of cannon fodder. Neither of these settings have the same underlying richness as LotR, but neither of them are trying to, but are just using it as a springboard (not to mention that Warcraft branched off from Warhammer as well).
I disagree. Most fantasy fans don't read past LotR itself. If you ask them what they like they'll probably mention war hammer, Warcraft, Patric Rothfuss, or the wheel of time. I think some of those would make Tolkien cringe. Remember, he was a linguist and a professor. He was interested ancient classic myths like Beowulf, or the Kalevala. He was interested in the poetic and prose Eda. He was interested in poetry, and the use of words. He was interested in what these stories said about culture. Contemporary fantasy lacks all of the things he cared about the most. At best, he'd be bored. More then likely he'd consider it a basterdization of what he was trying to do. I'm not necessarily saying he would be right, but that's certainly how he would see it.Hawki said:
Aragorn had the whole "lay on hands to heal" thing going when he got to Minas Tirith. Other than that, no.
It's kinda a misconception that D&D was primarily based on Tolkien. Tolkien was just one flavor in a whole mix of classic fantasy that D&D drew from. Lieber, Howard, Moorcock, Vance are the biggest names I can think of off of the top of my head; their contributions to D&D were at least equal to Tolkien. The paladin seems to be drawn from contemporary works of historical fiction based on Arthurian legend and the knights of Roland. And it's D&D's depiction from there whence the modern pop culture figure of the paladin comes from.
It's kinda a misconception that D&D was primarily based on Tolkien. Tolkien was just one flavor in a whole mix of classic fantasy that D&D drew from. Lieber, Howard, Moorcock, Vance are the biggest names I can think of off of the top of my head; their contributions to D&D were at least equal to Tolkien. The paladin seems to be drawn from contemporary works of historical fiction based on Arthurian legend and the knights of Roland. And it's D&D's depiction from there whence the modern pop culture figure of the paladin comes from.
For the most part in LotR there's not lots of explicit magic use from most people. From wizards or sometimes subtle things from a few elves.
I see what you did there...and..I like it.BloatedGuppy said:
Anyhou, no, I don't think any particular sort of person in Middle Earth fits. MAYBE, you could find someone from the Silmarillion, but I'd have to crack open my wife's Tolkien encyclopedia, and I don't really want to unless I"m on the can.
The title of Paladin comes from one of the twelve peers of King Charlemange's Palatine court.
It colloquially was considered to be a knight of skill and honor who followed the code of chivalry.
In gaming terms, it was inspired by a very specific novel, Three Hearts and Three Lions, by Poul Anderson. Holger Danske is a paladin... without the book ever using that term. It's the specific inspiration for the Paladin class in D&D.
It colloquially was considered to be a knight of skill and honor who followed the code of chivalry.
In gaming terms, it was inspired by a very specific novel, Three Hearts and Three Lions, by Poul Anderson. Holger Danske is a paladin... without the book ever using that term. It's the specific inspiration for the Paladin class in D&D.
I think he would love Kingkiller Chronicle based on what you said. The best prose I have ever read. Rothfuss is all about using language for hidden meanings, and stuff.Fox12 said:
OP:
Nope, no paladins (if you mean the holy warrior type).
It is more earth focused, so you would find lots of druid type guys instead.
The closest is maybe Gandalf because he has the fire....ummm, let's see here....
Just gonna copy paste this explanation from [link]http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/27801/what-does-gandalf-mean-by-secret-fire-flame-of-anor-and-flame-of-udun[/link]
"Gandalf is making three very specific references as both warning and challenge to the Balrog. By identifying himself as a servant of the secret fire (or Flame imperishable), Gandalf is identifying himself as a Maia, an embodied angelic servant of the Valar protecting the light of Creation that Eru Iluvatar (or God) has set to burn at the centre of Arda (Earth).
Wielder of the flame of Anor is a reference to his ability to draw on the power of the sun possibly through the Ring of Fire Narya but maybe also through his own divine origins.
Finally as he refers to the Balrog as the Flame of Udun, he informs the Balrog that he knows it to be a corrupted Maia in the service of Morgoth from the earliest time when he resided as Melkor in his dark fortress of Utumno broken by the Valar at the awakening of the Elves. He orders it to retreat (go back to the shadows) or face the consequences of divine conflict and final judgement before the Vala Mandos, the fate of all slain creatures."
I haven't read Rothfuss. I was just making the point that most fantasy fans are only aware of contemporary fantasy, whereas Tolkien was more interested in ancient legends and myths, largely for academic reasons.Glongpre said:
He probably would like some modern writers. He'd probably appreciate something like Berserk or GoT as well, but harshly criticize their themes and ideas. Stodgy Catholic, you know.
It's notable that religion is not a theme covered in Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit much at all. Despite Gandalf being an agent of gods or godlike beings, worship does not appear to figure in the lives of any of the characters, at least as I recall.