Are Valve even AWARE of how badly they're screwing up?
- Thread starter Arcane Azmadi
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I wouldn't say 6.5 million copies sold (from 04 to 08) not counting steam, orange box and bundle sales is 'not a massive seller'. I mean, sure, it's nothing close to CoD or so. But if you measure every game's sales by using the highest seller as a standard, you need to learn how statistics work.Someone Depressing said:
I just sprayed tea all over my monitor and keyboard, and hurt myself laughing so hard. Not sure why I found that so funny but Thank/Fuck You.G00N3R7883 said:
[small]Nothing got damaged, so no hard feelings
[/small]OT: At this point, HL2:Ep3 or HL3 would just be a really nice surprise. If it never comes out, that's a shame, but ultimately I'm pretty happy with the work Valve's been doing. TF2 is still fun, no matter how long a break I take from it, DoD:S and CS:S still have active communities should I ever fancy getting my arse kicked, and I've always got Half-Life, Blue Shift, OpFor, Half-Life 2 and the episodes to revisit. Not to mention Portal and Portal 2 as well.
I see no point in getting hyped up about Half-Life anymore, it'll happen when it happens, if it happens at all. No point getting worked up over it. I reckon we'll see the next Half-Life released with the new engine, if it's ever going to be released.
You do know that they canned HL2 ep3 years ago? I enjoyed HL2 but, loved the detail in the gaming areas. But those head crabs are so lame as an enemy - not including the one that knocks you down to 1 lifepoint. Those can get your heart beat racing trying to kill it before its hits again. lol. Would like a HL3, but i cant say im that obsessed about it like a lot of people. Personally if i was given a choice i would love a Portal 3.
I have a theory on the HL3 delay. Everytime they come up with a great idea, a modder has already done it. So they have to keep going back to the drawing board.
What about a HD remake of HL1? That would be good.
I have a theory on the HL3 delay. Everytime they come up with a great idea, a modder has already done it. So they have to keep going back to the drawing board.
What about a HD remake of HL1? That would be good.
They simply don't care anymore.
On one side, its the fact they kind of wrote themselves into a wall with Episode 2. Yes, the ending was surprising and emotional at the time; but I don't think they had any idea on how to continue the story after that. They had barely a concept of where Episode 3 would go before they canceled it. Similarly, they had absolutely no idea about Half Life 3. At this point, releasing Half Life 3 would be a serious mistake, since there is no way they could make a game that lives to the legacy of Half Life 2 and the expectations of 3...
On the other hand, they (and we) moved away from it. At this point, I am more interested in the possibility of Portal 3 than on the continuation of Gordon Freeman's story. And then, there is Steam, and DOTA 2, and TF2 hats, and several other things they have that basically print money and give them more than whatever Half Life 3 could. At this point, they could just close their games division, focus their entire energy in supporting Steam and their back catalog of games, and they would make more than what Half Life 3 could. They have several forms of revenue that are more consistent than just to develop and sell a game, no matter how popular (and that discounting the fact that, no matter how good, many people will think "pff... wasn't worth 8 years of wait). To do so would be like asking Blizzard resources to make a AAA sequel to Lost Vikings...
On one side, its the fact they kind of wrote themselves into a wall with Episode 2. Yes, the ending was surprising and emotional at the time; but I don't think they had any idea on how to continue the story after that. They had barely a concept of where Episode 3 would go before they canceled it. Similarly, they had absolutely no idea about Half Life 3. At this point, releasing Half Life 3 would be a serious mistake, since there is no way they could make a game that lives to the legacy of Half Life 2 and the expectations of 3...
On the other hand, they (and we) moved away from it. At this point, I am more interested in the possibility of Portal 3 than on the continuation of Gordon Freeman's story. And then, there is Steam, and DOTA 2, and TF2 hats, and several other things they have that basically print money and give them more than whatever Half Life 3 could. At this point, they could just close their games division, focus their entire energy in supporting Steam and their back catalog of games, and they would make more than what Half Life 3 could. They have several forms of revenue that are more consistent than just to develop and sell a game, no matter how popular (and that discounting the fact that, no matter how good, many people will think "pff... wasn't worth 8 years of wait). To do so would be like asking Blizzard resources to make a AAA sequel to Lost Vikings...
please no, every time someone trys to do a HD remake it ends up with some horrible flaw. Just look at silent hill and the lock of fogSonOfVoorhees said:
I beg to differ.Clowndoe said:
People remember Duke Nukem Forever. People remember Aliens: Colonial Marines. People remember Ride to Hell: Retribution, Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing, Daikatana, Superman 64. Hell, people love Deadly Premonition.
You know what people don't remember?
Gorky 17. Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus. The first Saints Row or Just Cause (I'm sure they both have their fans, don't worry you guys). The Transformers game for the PS2. Later Tony Hawk's, Crash Bandicoot, or Spyro games. Lair. Clive Barker's Clive Barker's Jericho made by Clive Barker. The Third Birthday. ObsCure. Deep Fear. etc. etc.
Games which toe the line of mediocrity are often forgotten, but until that point they're often treated to the most scorn and disappointment the internet can muster. A game which is bad can still have its entertainment value. Games which are just... there... which have most of the elements to be good but just aren't, they tend to be the biggest disappointments.
And the internet echo chamber has a bad habit of magnifying the degree to which something is actually "bad" in the first place. Half-Life 3, deserved or not, is highly expected to be a fantastic game. Remember Mass Effect 3? Half-Life 3 would be magnitudes worse than that if it turned out to be anything less than great all the way throughout. Oh, sure, maybe a lot of people have moved on by now because it's simply been so long, but there's still that perception in the backs of their minds that Valve doesn't release subpar games.
I guess the true question I'm asking is "is it worse to provoke a negative emotional response or no emotional response at all?" A lot of critics, at least, seem to think games that provoke no emotional response are worse, even if they're not technically worse. The thing is, in the case of Half-Life 3 I sincerely doubt there would be no emotional response, regardless of how inoffensively average, bad, or great it turned out to be.
I understand that you'd really like there to be a Half Life 3, but I'm shocked you're overlooking the abysmal state of the Steam market place. If anything is a sign of Valve screwing up, it's the utter lack of quality control in Steam and poor regulation for early access games, not them seemingly ignoring developing the next installment for a decade-old FPS with a glorified cult following.
I don't know if it's indicative of the sentiment at large, but in my little circle of friends who get together almost every day to play Dota 2, Valve has become something of a joke. We don't really think they have it in them to push a decent sequel, or even a standalone game by themselves, not anymore. Witnessing years of them screwing everything up, even patches - ESPECIALLY patches. Yeah, they have a powerful economy there but their last original title was how many years ago, again?
There is a remake with the new source engine, it's fan made, but pretty good.communist gamer said:
As for Half-Life 3, i think that Valve either don't care anymore with their big bags of money coming from Steam or they don't want to damage their reputation by releasing a mediocre game that would make their fanboys rage. Gamers are a sensitive bunch after all, make them mad once and they will whine about it for years.
There's nothing inherently wrong with remakes. It's just that, with Silent Hill, it feels like anyone making a Silent Hill game doesn't really understand what made the first few games great. Anyway, there already is an HD remake of HL1. It's fan-made and called "Black Mesa".communist gamer said:
I think the idea that H-L3 - a game that would catalyse the entire industry and every review organ into a state of prolonged PR frenzy (and genuine enthusiasm) - would be a "mistake" or "damaging" for Valve is just utterly ridiculous.
As to why they've not done it yet, or don't seem interested in the idea, I think it is just altered priorities. Which, as a someone who's not on Steam and doesn't care for Valve's MP focused IP's, is obviously a tad frustrating.
I do, however, think that the 'episodic' (hah... ) concept was a fairly dumb mistake on their part to begin with, and a poor way to continue Half-Life's narrative. It smacked of a lack of vision and focus, and almost came across like an experiment. And y'know what? You experiment on a smaller scale, and you do not do it with one of the most highly regarded IP's in gaming history.
I still rate Valve, but I'm not sure I really respect them any more (I still have high-ish hopes for the Steam Machine, though).
As to why they've not done it yet, or don't seem interested in the idea, I think it is just altered priorities. Which, as a someone who's not on Steam and doesn't care for Valve's MP focused IP's, is obviously a tad frustrating.
I do, however, think that the 'episodic' (hah... ) concept was a fairly dumb mistake on their part to begin with, and a poor way to continue Half-Life's narrative. It smacked of a lack of vision and focus, and almost came across like an experiment. And y'know what? You experiment on a smaller scale, and you do not do it with one of the most highly regarded IP's in gaming history.
I still rate Valve, but I'm not sure I really respect them any more (I still have high-ish hopes for the Steam Machine, though).
Valve can sell broken games through Steam and get their fanbase to defend them. I'm pretty sure Gabe cab';t hear you over the sound of the coins from his money bin rustling past him.
I'm pretty sure your official 'HD' remake of Half-Life was Half-Life: Source.SonOfVoorhees said:
Seriously, did you ever play it on the old quake-offshoot engine?
Of course, the Blue Shift graphical update was only available officially for the original engine, but there is a mod for the source version here: http://hds.newmail.ru/eng_about.html
I bet there is a good reason for it not being released or talked about yet, and one day we will be told that reason. I actually like the fact that in an age where information is being tossed in all directions, someone as big as Valve actually manages to not leak anything. Maybe there is nothing to leak in the first place, but that's the thing, we don't know anything for sure. That to me is rather impressive I think.
Also, if you were Valve, what exactly would you do in this situation all things considered?
As far as I am concerned, I just want to know the end to the story, but I also want it to be good. I don't want another ME3 to happen. So if it takes them this long to make it good, or to get other things out of the way so they can actually focus fully on HL3 to make it good, so be it.
If it ends up never coming at all, ah well, it will just be one of those things like Firefly. Regardless of what happens, Half life will forever be an important part of gaming history.
Also, if you were Valve, what exactly would you do in this situation all things considered?
As far as I am concerned, I just want to know the end to the story, but I also want it to be good. I don't want another ME3 to happen. So if it takes them this long to make it good, or to get other things out of the way so they can actually focus fully on HL3 to make it good, so be it.
If it ends up never coming at all, ah well, it will just be one of those things like Firefly. Regardless of what happens, Half life will forever be an important part of gaming history.
I agree with most of the games on your list there, but these three? Really? I don't quite agree with you there.shrekfan246 said:
That's why I specified the later ones.Rattja said:
Do people really remember Tony Hawk's Proving Ground, Crash of the Titans, or The Legend of Spyro: The Eternal Night? And then do they remember them as anything more than bitter disappointments?
My guess is that Valve has no interest in making Half Life 3 because there is no good reason to make Half Life 3. You see, Valve, for all their faults and failures, isn't a cash grab company. I know that sounds silly, but it is true. At least when it comes to their own franchises. They take the long view - this is why they were willing to make TF2 free in the anticipation of selling hats. They belived that they could make far more money in the long run giving TF2 away than charging money for it. And it worked like a charm.
This is why they are not in any sort of hurry to make Half Life 3. Because they see only the potential for failure there. They can make 100 million dollars on Half Life 3, but what good does that do them if they kill the franchise? Half Life 2 brought great new ideas to the FPS. My guess is that they don't have any great new ideas for Half Life 3 so they are not making it.
Finally, Half Life 3 is probably making them more money just as a meme than it would as an actual game. The constant lack of the game makes it part of gaming culture. The mere potential of the game is a powerful force of word of mouth advertising. And all they have to do to keep that going is do nothing. And maybe Gabe wears a HL3 shirt once in a while. Think of all the free word of mouth they get from "HL3 Confirmed!" and "Valve can't count to 3". That is relevance in gaming culture that no amount of money can buy.
Frankly, it would be stupid for Valve to make Half Life 3 before they can guarantee it will be an amazing and revolutionary game. It would be better for them to never make it than for it to be merely great.
This is why they are not in any sort of hurry to make Half Life 3. Because they see only the potential for failure there. They can make 100 million dollars on Half Life 3, but what good does that do them if they kill the franchise? Half Life 2 brought great new ideas to the FPS. My guess is that they don't have any great new ideas for Half Life 3 so they are not making it.
Finally, Half Life 3 is probably making them more money just as a meme than it would as an actual game. The constant lack of the game makes it part of gaming culture. The mere potential of the game is a powerful force of word of mouth advertising. And all they have to do to keep that going is do nothing. And maybe Gabe wears a HL3 shirt once in a while. Think of all the free word of mouth they get from "HL3 Confirmed!" and "Valve can't count to 3". That is relevance in gaming culture that no amount of money can buy.
Frankly, it would be stupid for Valve to make Half Life 3 before they can guarantee it will be an amazing and revolutionary game. It would be better for them to never make it than for it to be merely great.
Just. No, to the crown jewel comment. No. You're only seeing it that way because you're an FPS nostalgia artist. And beneath that, even you know the truth: which is that Valve's crown jewel is the digital hat business. And I'm not saying that as a joke.
After that, its the digital hat business vehicles like Dota 2 and TF2.
I haven't played HL2... Because to be honest it looked like trash even in its time (and the past seven years haven't made it any fresher).
So I'm certainly biased when I say this, but I don't think anyone's missing HL3 enough to *suddenly* get angry- without any specific catalyst to revive their emotions. The *seriously* angry people are getting ever more bitter and the rest long ago stopped caring. And that's fine, because the world is OK without another mediocre shooter.
After that, its the digital hat business vehicles like Dota 2 and TF2.
I haven't played HL2... Because to be honest it looked like trash even in its time (and the past seven years haven't made it any fresher).
So I'm certainly biased when I say this, but I don't think anyone's missing HL3 enough to *suddenly* get angry- without any specific catalyst to revive their emotions. The *seriously* angry people are getting ever more bitter and the rest long ago stopped caring. And that's fine, because the world is OK without another mediocre shooter.
There is just no need to make the game, none at all. They may have broken ground in the gaming world with those games a decade ago, but honestly the only thing that makes anyone want a sequel is the cliffhanger.
Valve doesn't really need to pour resources into making a game as overhyped as the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (fun fact:both have approximately the same chance of occuring), only for it to end up anything less than the audience expected. Nor is there any need for them to make ANY games at this point. Their digital distribution business is soaring. So really, it's a sound decision business-wise.
Valve doesn't really need to pour resources into making a game as overhyped as the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (fun fact:both have approximately the same chance of occuring), only for it to end up anything less than the audience expected. Nor is there any need for them to make ANY games at this point. Their digital distribution business is soaring. So really, it's a sound decision business-wise.